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Author Topic: Chryst out 6+ months, Burns to transfer  (Read 8839 times)

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Offline CornFed

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2017, 09:34:42 am »
Oh.  So you think he's got credible sources then?   :P
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Offline Langdude

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2017, 09:44:05 am »
I wonder if Burns was not offered a 5th year and was told that before the Sun Bowl and he started making alternative plans.

I don't think so. I am sure that we'd prefer having an experienced back-up next year given Chryst's injury.

-m.

Offline OutsiderFan

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2017, 10:08:57 am »
What is the resistance to simplifying the playbook to get the best players playing and contributing ASAP?

And, what if Costello is hurt?  Do you play a lesser talented walk-on so you don't have to play the True Frosh who has elite talent and potential? 

The hope is that the walk-on actually is an adequate stand-in, but if he isn't, do you flush your season down the toilet just to preserve your - overly - complicated offense?

Offline Goose

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2017, 10:10:04 am »
I wonder if Burns was not offered a 5th year and was told that before the Sun Bowl and he started making alternative plans.

I don't think so. I am sure that we'd prefer having an experienced back-up next year given Chryst's injury.

-m.
I think, based only on extrapolating how Shaw seems to operate, he would only tell Burns that he had no scholarship for year 5 if he really, really, needed that scholarship for 2017. As of now, I don't think that is the case. But two other things could have happened. Burns could feel that things weren't fair to him this year, that he got all the "hard" games while Chryst got all the "easy" games. He could also be aware that (rightly, IMHO) he has a long climb to get the full confidence of the coaches, teammates, and (emphatically here on the Cardboard) fans. So even if he thought he could beat out Costello, he may have decided it was too unlikely to count on. The other thing that the could have happened is the coaches just told him " you can stay, but you have no shot", in which case he decided to go.
It is also possible he had decided to go before Chryst got hurt, and now may decide not to. Or anything else. "Reliable sources" aren't.

Offline fullmetal

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2017, 10:44:34 am »
I think the playbook involves a lot of ability to read/react appropriately to opponents' defensive positioning, alignments, and tendencies.  That probably comes first, followed by the ability to correctly pick a pass protection scheme and communicate it.  Finally comes the ability to determine the optimal offensive play and communicate it.


Offline larkinforever

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2017, 10:48:06 am »
I think, based only on extrapolating how Shaw seems to operate, he would only tell Burns that he had no scholarship for year 5 if he really, really, needed that scholarship for 2017. As of now, I don't think that is the case. But two other things could have happened. Burns could feel that things weren't fair to him this year, that he got all the "hard" games while Chryst got all the "easy" games. He could also be aware that (rightly, IMHO) he has a long climb to get the full confidence of the coaches, teammates, and (emphatically here on the Cardboard) fans. So even if he thought he could beat out Costello, he may have decided it was too unlikely to count on. The other thing that the could have happened is the coaches just told him " you can stay, but you have no shot", in which case he decided to go.
It is also possible he had decided to go before Chryst got hurt, and now may decide not to. Or anything else. "Reliable sources" aren't.
Not disagreeing with anything above, but irrespective of depth charts or projected role or things of that nature, I've often thought earning one's degree and taking advantage of the graduate transfer rule is a wonderful way to get the best of many worlds - you earn your degree while getting a 4-year college experience, and also get to continue playing the game you (presumably?) love, and also get to expand horizons at a new institution (perhaps with significantly different geographic/social/etc. influences), and also get to earn a master's degree and...

Offline StanfordIndians1

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2017, 11:00:08 am »
I think it is so funny that some people STILL think a Freshman QB could come in and handle the calls of our offense.  Guys-its not ever going to happen.  Bloomgren isn't going to dummy down the playbook.  And if you think a frosh QB could handle it then you are mistaken.  And if we did play a frosh with a limited set of plays...we won't win

Burns may not have a home yet.  Just means he will explore see if he finds a fit and/or maybe not play ala Crower.

It is interesting timing that we will only have one QB in Costello until Chryst is an option.  What if Costello is the starter game 1 and 2...gets entrenched....does Chryst consider transferring to uncles Wisconsin program?  This plot will thicken in the next 9 months...should be interesting Cardboard material


Offline Goose

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2017, 11:02:32 am »
What is the resistance to simplifying the playbook to get the best players playing and contributing ASAP?

And, what if Costello is hurt?  Do you play a lesser talented walk-on so you don't have to play the True Frosh who has elite talent and potential? 

The hope is that the walk-on actually is an adequate stand-in, but if he isn't, do you flush your season down the toilet just to preserve your - overly - complicated offense?
The goal is to win the game. Success in football comes from a combination of physical ability, execution, and scheme. The coaches have to decide how to combine these elements to win the game. If you have 10 players who can execute the whole scheme effectively, and one player with great ability who either doesn't know/can't execute the whole scheme, you can be (much) worse off than with 10 players who can execute the whole scheme and one player who can execute the whole scheme sort of OK. I think Shaw will put the most physically talented ("best" in your terms) out there not ASAP, but "as soon as it is advantageous". That is a balance among scheme, execution, and physical ability. I think Shaw does, and will continue, to simplify the scheme if it is net positive. The difference between his opinion and your opinion as to what the trade-offs are may differ. The whole thing is a big multi-variable non-linear optimization problem with many local maximums and limited experimental data obtainable. That's why Shaw gets paid the big bucks.
In your question about Costello not being able to play, what decision do you think is the right one? What if the walk-on is pretty good but not good enough to beat UW? Do you burn Mills' shirt even if you don't know for sure he can beat UW? Maybe (God forbid) the 2017 team isn't very good. How good does it have to be to make playing Mills worthwhile? And what if you do play Mills, and he gets hurt because he has no protection and doesn't know how to recognize the safety blitz? Or what if he gets so gun-shy after getting beat up for a year he is never any good (yes, this happens)? I don't pretend to know, certainly not right now, and probably not in August with any high confidence. I suspect that even during the season, there will be many "suggestions" as to what should be done.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 11:21:27 am by Goose »

Offline TreesAndBirds

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2017, 11:03:04 am »
Well if Burns wants to go to a good academic school that plays in a P5 conference where he'd have a shot at quarterback (or maybe even coach  ;), there is a school just north of Oakland.....

Offline Goose

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2017, 11:44:11 am »
Well if Burns wants to go to a good academic school that plays in a P5 conference where he'd have a shot at quarterback (or maybe even coach  ;), there is a school just north of Oakland.....
He would never get a shot at ןɐɔ. Too good of a runner ;D

Offline Hank 91

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2017, 11:55:39 am »
I watched the same games all of you did, but I'm still surprised that Burns is transferring. (I never expected Burns to take a meaningful snap at Stanford, but still.) The fact that he is tells me that either he knows in his heart that Costello will beat him out, or the coaches have told him this directly. As some have mentioned here recently, he did have some moments in the sun -- the perfect start against Kansas State, the comeback against UCLA -- and there were times when I really believed he was going to be good enough to lead this team to a conference championship. It's surprising to me that he doesn't believe it anymore.
Please clear the field!  The game is not over!

Offline fullmetal

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2017, 11:58:27 am »
I was hoping the Burns of KSU/U$C/UCLA would re-emerge, but it hasn't happened.  He did enough for Stanford to beat UNC.  I don't think he's been the same since UW, unfortunately.  And apparently he hasn't yet found the coaching or therapy to recover from that.

Offline Hank 91

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2017, 12:09:38 pm »
I was hoping the Burns of KSU/U$C/UCLA would re-emerge, but it hasn't happened.  He did enough for Stanford to beat UNC.  I don't think he's been the same since UW, unfortunately.  And apparently he hasn't yet found the coaching or therapy to recover from that.
I agree completely. To me the most telling events in the Sun Bowl were the two grounding penalties and the illegal forward pass. I've watched a lot of football, and I've never seen a quarterback throw a pass from four yards beyond the line of scrimmage. If he were a basketball player we'd say he had no court awareness. Or here's another analogy -- a fish out of water. Except for isolated moments, he never looked remotely comfortable. Some of that rust can be probably be attributed to his two months on the bench, but there appeared to be something more going on.
Please clear the field!  The game is not over!

Offline Goose

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2017, 12:11:14 pm »
Not disagreeing with anything above, but irrespective of depth charts or projected role or things of that nature, I've often thought earning one's degree and taking advantage of the graduate transfer rule is a wonderful way to get the best of many worlds - you earn your degree while getting a 4-year college experience, and also get to continue playing the game you (presumably?) love, and also get to expand horizons at a new institution (perhaps with significantly different geographic/social/etc. influences), and also get to earn a master's degree and...
I agree. It could be a very good way to broaden your horizons both in football and in education. And, if you are not a guaranteed starter, there is relatively no downside. I think it is going to get more popular real fast with guys that didn't play as freshmen. If you graduate, it may become the norm. Free agency hits the NCAA.

Offline Goose

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Re: QB Situation
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2017, 12:29:28 pm »
I was hoping the Burns of KSU/U$C/UCLA would re-emerge, but it hasn't happened.  He did enough for Stanford to beat UNC.  I don't think he's been the same since UW, unfortunately.  And apparently he hasn't yet found the coaching or therapy to recover from that.
I think that is a great insight. I think he hit bottom against Colorado, but I think that it was very hard on him that at UW and against WSU, when no matter what he did, it didn't work (Including hand-offs to running backs). When you prepare for years by learning a system from which you expect success, and it doesn't work the way it was drawn up, essentially at all, it can be demoralizing in the extreme. Against Colorado, I think he panicked, and started dropping the ball/throwing to the wrong team much more frequently. Mistakes of desperation.