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Can we all now forgive CMAC? - martyup - 12-31-2016

After watching Chryst go down with a knee injury, some might say that CMAC was vindicated in his decision to sit out the Sun Bowl.  The fact that we won the game without him might also damper the ill will some have expressed towards his decision. 

Personally, I understood the logic behind the decision but it saddened me.  The injury to Chryst amplifies the fact that CMAC would have been at risk of injury if he had played.  I enjoyed watching Dalvin Cook play against Michigan and his participation was clearly necessary for FSU to beat MI. 

The fact that we were able to pull out the win in the Sun Bowl without CMAC is a testament to the grit of our players.  The win lessens the blow of CMAC's absence, but I believe that his legacy will forever be tarnished for his decision.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - OutsiderFan - 12-31-2016

What is there to forgive?

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Mick - 12-31-2016

I don't really care for use of the word "forgiveness."  He didn't do anything to me personally, he didn't admit to wrong doing, he certainly isn't repentant and there's no way to rehabilitate.  So to me, "forgiveness" isn't quite the right concept.  I also understand the logic, and I fully and firmly believe his legacy is tarnished.

Two other thoughts:  the reason I thought it was a bad idea for him to skip the game was that he could have materially improved his draft status.  In other words, I mainly thought it was a stupid decision.  At his level, every additional draft spot means hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars.  So by punking out on mid-level bowl game, he's now labelled a quitter.  If he had an injury, that would be one thing.  But he didn't say he was injured (like Fournette did), so my assumption is that he is completely injury-free and could have played at full-strength.  If he is injured, well then he's lying to his future employers and that's a problem of a different nature.  Bruce Jenkins this morning wrote "there was nothing honorable about McCaffrey's call."

Thomas was a force of nature yesterday, the same force of nature on defense that McCaffrey was and should have been on offense.  Love gained 114 yards on 22 carries, with one 59 yard run.  With respect, I think McCaffrey would have been twice as good.  I think Christian cost himself money, the respect of his teammates and the respect of his staff.  He did, however, absolutely earn the label "quitter."  But that's his problem.

Second thought, Thomas, on the other hand, elevated himself.  I think he made himself at least a million dollars yesterday.  I think his draft status will skyrocket.  Players play.

My father in law played on a Stanford basketball team.  I asked him how he would have felt had the team's best player quit before a pac-8 championship game.  He just stared and finally said, "well that just wouldn't have happened."

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - ThePassionOfTheChryst - 12-31-2016

I don't believe he needed vindicating, but he certainly received it yesterday.

Mick, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I believe it's safe to assume that Christian has some of the best NFL advisors available, and his handlers clearly believed that his draft stock could not be elevated much by a strong performance. I tend to agree. He's a consensus first round pick, and he was not going to jump Fournette regardless of how he did in the Sun Bowl. Thomas, meanwhile, had much more to gain -- and he gained it. The risk/reward calculation for every player is different.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Mick - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 10:38 AM)ThePOC link Wrote:I don't believe he needed vindicating, but he certainly received it yesterday.


How do you figure?

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - 76lsjumb - 12-31-2016

I just wish it had been CMAC and Shaw making the post-game comments that Dalvin Cook and Jimbo Fisher made.

CMAC cost us at least one TD, because there is no question his goal line leap, while perhaps not Remound-quality, is better than Scarlett's and almost certainly would have been enough to get that half-yard.  We wouldn't be debating that 3rd-down play call now, because we would have had the TD at least one and probably two downs earlier.

Oh, and none of our running backs got injured.  Turns out the wrong roommate skipped the game.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - ThePassionOfTheChryst - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 10:42 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=ThePOC link=topic=16355.msg184504#msg184504 date=1483205886]
I don't believe he needed vindicating, but he certainly received it yesterday.


How do you figure?
[/quote]

I don't understand the question. Did you see what happened to Jake Butt yesterday?

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Hank 91 - 12-31-2016

If you're having trouble garnering any sympathy for McCaffrey, take a walk through the responses to this tweet.
https://twitter.com/CMccaffrey5/status/814888243833479171
This isn't news, but Twitter can be an ugly place.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - JohnR34231 - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 11:11 AM)Hank 91 link Wrote:If you're having trouble garnering any sympathy for McCaffrey, take a walk through the responses to this tweet.
https://twitter.com/CMccaffrey5/status/814888243833479171
This isn't news, but Twitter can be an ugly place.

There are always a bunch of yahoos on the internet who love to make rude, insulting comments. Best thing to do is ignore them.
Facebook, Twitter, you find them everywhere.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Farm93 - 12-31-2016

Mick, How about another choice? - None of the above.
I don't believe that choice was ideal for team, program, school, so I do not want to "support" or condone it.  However, like Shaw I understand it and support athletes' ability to make choices as long as they comply with NCAA rules, etc.

As that was the Stanford coaching staff's position, shouldn't that be an option?

What exactly did you think we might be willing for forgive?

It is a relief to everyone associated with the program that Stanford won despite CMAC's choice, but why would the game result be the factor here?  Those that believe in duty, honor, program should not be more accepting of his choice just because of the program win.  I was not a big fan of the team above individual thing, but the result shouldn't alter that view. IMHO.  A personal foul for unnecessary roughness on the OL does not become OK if on the next play the RB runs for 25+ yards and picks up a first down. 

FWIW - Looks like LSU will win too.  So perhaps it is time for a new narrative.  Does the voluntary departure of top talent early in the bowl prep process give the remaining players a greater sense of purpose for their (meaningless exhibition) game? 


Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - ChicagoCard - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 11:11 AM)Hank 91 link Wrote:If you're having trouble garnering any sympathy for McCaffrey, take a walk through the responses to this tweet.
https://twitter.com/CMccaffrey5/status/814888243833479171
This isn't news, but Twitter can be an ugly place.

I saw that tweet, retweeted, and immediately thought of all the nasty tweets he would get in return.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - VFRing98 - 12-31-2016

Apparently, to read Jake Butt's tweets, god had a plan for him that involves making a lot less money than he was set to make pre-Orange Bowl.

And god had a plan for CMac that involves staying healthy.

As they say, mysterious ways!

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Langdude - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 11:51 AM)VFRing98 link Wrote:Apparently, to read Jake Butt's tweets, god had a plan for him that involves making a lot less money than he was set to make pre-Orange Bowl.

And god had a plan for CMac that involves staying healthy.

As they say, mysterious ways!

Yeah. God gets invoked all the time to support whatever argument, inclination, or cultural value we already have in mind. Ludwig Feuerbach would have used social media as a primary exhibit.

-m.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - FarmBoy - 12-31-2016

I agree that forgive is the wrong word. He didn't personally injure me, so I don't feel any need to forgive. But his legacy will always be tarnished for me and I won't think of him as fondly as I do guys like Luck, Gerhart, Taylor, et al.

While he might not have been able to improve his draft status yesterday, his decision not to play could have dropped him a few spots. He may have great advisors, but they can't predict the outcome of such uncharted waters. They don't have a wealth of data points to draw from, so they're making educated guesses at best.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Farm93 - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 12:16 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:While he might not have been able to improve his draft status yesterday, his decision not to play could have dropped him a few spots. He may have great advisors, but they can't predict the outcome of such uncharted waters. They don't have a wealth of data points to draw from, so they're making educated guesses at best.
He is clearly a pioneer on this one, but I have watched enough of those combine and drafts to know that mileage on an RB is a big deal.  It was likely not just about the potential injury, but also about keeping the overall mileage down too.  Somewhat similar to his decision to skip the spring, which probably had a more profound impact on the Stanford 2016 season BTW.  We will never know if he would have been injured, but he would have added mileage to his body if he played in the game, just as the spring was going to add mileage to the body.

FWIW - I also remain convinced that CMAC will have to disclose his previous undisclosed lower body injury to NFL teams, and then those NFL teams will get this decision. I am confident that prior injury is one of the missing variables that would help us understand the draft calculus the McCaffery family implemented here.  FWIW2 - I do not believe that CMAC or the Stanford AD owes us (fans/donors/alums/students) any information on those injuries.


Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Mick - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 10:46 AM)ThePOC link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16355.msg184506#msg184506 date=1483206124]
[quote author=ThePOC link=topic=16355.msg184504#msg184504 date=1483205886]
I don't believe he needed vindicating, but he certainly received it yesterday.


How do you figure?
[/quote]

I don't understand the question. Did you see what happened to Jake Butt yesterday?
[/quote]

yes, he tore an ACL or MCL.  so you're saying we should eliminate college football, right?  No games, no practices, no injuries?

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - FarmBoy - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 01:07 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=ThePOC link=topic=16355.msg184508#msg184508 date=1483206362]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=16355.msg184506#msg184506 date=1483206124]
[quote author=ThePOC link=topic=16355.msg184504#msg184504 date=1483205886]
I don't believe he needed vindicating, but he certainly received it yesterday.


How do you figure?
[/quote]

I don't understand the question. Did you see what happened to Jake Butt yesterday?
[/quote]

yes, he tore an ACL or MCL.  so you're saying we should eliminate college football, right?  No games, no practices, no injuries?
[/quote]

Clearly the 2016 Sun Bowl proved that redshirt Stanford Sophomore QBs who took over the starting role mid-season and are matched against a team from the ACC should sit out their bowl games. 100% of the time the get injured.

Quote: It was likely not just about the potential injury, but also about keeping the overall mileage down too.

I'm no NFL insider, but the marginal negative impact of being viewed as a quitter would seem to be worse than an extra 20 carries on his player profile.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - VFRing98 - 12-31-2016

You're really right about this - you're no NFL insider.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - Phogge - 12-31-2016

I don't care what Ludwig Feuerbach thinks, I want to know what Al Feuerbach thinks.

Re: Can we all now forgive CMAC? - BurgXXIII - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 01:57 PM)Phogge link Wrote:I don't care what Ludwig Feuerbach thinks, I want to know what Al Feuerbach thinks.

Apparently Ludwig had many accomplished siblings.