Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - Printable Version
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Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - OutsiderFan - 10-28-2017
https://twitter.com/SportingGreenSF/status/923977352236822528
I'm sorry, but Bryce Love played against SDSU and they still lost, because Chryst played just as poorly against SDSU as OSU for all intents and purposes. They may well have almost lost or actually lost had Love played on Thursday. Bryce Love can play at WSU and they will lose if Chryst plays lousy again. Frankly, there is no reason to believe he won't. Throughout his career he's not much better than a 50% passer. And as of now, he's at his worst ever for a year at Stanford: 54%. This is simply horrid.
Love playing or not isn't the issue in road games. Chryst is. He's just too inconsistent. The evidence is legion. I can't believe someone like Fitzgerald can't recognize this, as he is usually pretty astute.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - Phogge - 10-28-2017
I think Fitz was half right. I believe a healthy Love would have exploited the holes that were opposed on at least two occasions possibly putting the game out of reach. But preparation on both sides almost gave the Beavs the win. The new coach prepped his DB's to react quickly to Chryst locking on. And Stanford continued to make bonehead mistakes like the Edwards penalty, the spear by Alfieri and the roughing punter call. As captain of the ship that's on Shaw and to a lesser degree, the staff.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - JohnR34231 - 10-28-2017
Love only carried the ball 13 times against SDSU. I don't think we had yet realized the necessity of constantly feeding him the ball. In the next three he averaged 25 so I think we finally figured it out.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - Hulk01 - 10-28-2017
Dumb penalties are on players; that's what makes them dumb. No player needs to be told--at least not one more time--not to commit the penalty, yet some player still does.Â
These kids have been playing football for years. They've been told enough.Â
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - OutsiderFan - 10-28-2017
(10-28-2017, 06:21 AM)JPRI link Wrote:Love only carried the ball 13 times against SDSU. I don't think we had yet realized the necessity of constantly feeding him the ball. In the next three he averaged 25 so I think we finally figured it out.
This is likely mitigated by how good WSU's run defense is; #24 in YPC (3.4) allowed. SDSU is #48 (3.8), FWIW.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - Phogge - 10-28-2017
BS Hulk. Stanford players don't commit those penalties like they have this season. You could argue that it wasn't Mike White's fault that his players played dirty but they were encouraged to test the limits of the officials. My cousin started for him for two years and there were plenty of times we discussed the play.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - CornFed - 10-28-2017
(10-28-2017, 08:02 AM)Phogge link Wrote:BS Hulk. Stanford players don't commit those penalties like they have this season. You could argue that it wasn't Mike White's fault that his players played dirty but they were encouraged to test the limits of the officials. My cousin started for him for two years and there were plenty of times we discussed the play.
I don't know, Phogge. You seem to be implying some kind of equivalence that Shaw and his staff "encouraged players to test the limits of the officials"? I presume that is not what you think, but as Hulk says, the players know not to do these things. Unless one thinks that it is possible that the coaches have turned a blind eye to these stupid penalties, hoping to see "more aggressive" play, (which I, for one, do not) then I think it is far more on the players that they allowed their in-game emotions to overwhelm their judgment.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - Phogge - 10-28-2017
No. You would think that after the Holder penalty and the Phillips penalty which "could" have resulted in a Utah Hail Mary that the staff would emphasize not leading with the helmet, ESPECIALLY on the referee protected QB. As for Edwards the last time I recall a player reacting like that was the WR who punched the Cal player at Memorial before the start of the Big Game years ago. So what does Edwards get? Possibly the end of Holder's college career. CAN'T happen. Staff now has to hit the point hard maybe to the extent of benching a starter in the future.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - BobK - 10-28-2017
Phogge you need to watch Shaw's after game press conference about the penalites. He was quite clear
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - lex24 - 10-28-2017
Good ole Mike White. Hell of a coach. That 75 offense was best Ive ever seen. Of course, there was a reason White didnt get Stanford job after Christensen. White was a tad short on ethics.
As for stupid penalties, particularly of Personal foul/ unsportsmanlike- you KNOW Shaw talks to them about that. And these kids arent close to dumb. Its a fast game. Instincts etc.
One of the first things Shaw mentioned post game was that they lost composure a couple plays and thats not Stanford football.Â
Targeting rule needs to be changed. Yellow card analogy - or targeting 1 - crown, launch above shoulders, defenseless is an ejection. Targeting 2 - not defenseless etc draws 15 and a yellow card Do it again - this game OR next and you are ejected
(10-28-2017, 08:02 AM)Phogge link Wrote:BS Hulk. Stanford players don't commit those penalties like they have this season. You could argue that it wasn't Mike White's fault that his players played dirty but they were encouraged to test the limits of the officials. My cousin started for him for two years and there were plenty of times we discussed the play.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - lex24 - 10-28-2017
Not sure what the false narrative is. He said 1. They looked lifeless. 2. They did not get good QB play. 3. They need Love to beat WSU
All three are true.
(10-28-2017, 06:04 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:https://twitter.com/SportingGreenSF/status/923977352236822528
I'm sorry, but Bryce Love played against SDSU and they still lost, because Chryst played just as poorly against SDSU as OSU for all intents and purposes. They may well have almost lost or actually lost had Love played on Thursday. Bryce Love can play at WSU and they will lose if Chryst plays lousy again. Frankly, there is no reason to believe he won't. Throughout his career he's not much better than a 50% passer. And as of now, he's at his worst ever for a year at Stanford: 54%. This is simply horrid.
Love playing or not isn't the issue in road games. Chryst is. He's just too inconsistent. The evidence is legion. I can't believe someone like Fitzgerald can't recognize this, as he is usually pretty astute.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - OutsiderFan - 10-28-2017
(10-28-2017, 09:40 AM)lex24 link Wrote:Not sure what the false narrative is. He said 1. They looked lifeless. 2. They did not get good QB play. 3. They need Love to beat WSU
All three are true.
Stanford does not need Bryce love to beat WSU. Stanford needs good QB play to beat them. I will leave this board and never come back if Love plays and Stanford beats WSU with Chryst completing 54% of his passes and throws at least one pick.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - BostonCard - 10-28-2017
It was a frustrating game, and the kids were frustrated. It showed. Given the number of people losing their verbal cool on this board (myself included), I dont think we are really in a position to pass judgment.
We are 62nd in the country in penalties, which is pretty darned near average. That being said, we pride ourselves in not unnecessarily shooting our selves in the foot, so this is an area where we should definitely work to improve.
BC
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - lex24 - 10-28-2017
Of course they emphasize not leading with helmet. And keeping composure. Players make mistakes. They get caught up in the moment. They arent machines
The only true dressing downs I witnessed in years on Stanford sideline was for unsportsmanlike penalties etc.
(10-28-2017, 08:53 AM)Phogge link Wrote:No. You would think that after the Holder penalty and the Phillips penalty which "could" have resulted in a Utah Hail Mary that the staff would emphasize not leading with the helmet, ESPECIALLY on the referee protected QB. As for Edwards the last time I recall a player reacting like that was the WR who punched the ×ÉÉ player at Memorial before the start of the Big Game years ago. So what does Edwards get? Possibly the end of Holder's college career. CAN'T happen. Staff now has to hit the point hard maybe to the extent of benching a starter in the future.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - Hurlburt88 - 10-28-2017
I believe the WSU game will come down to a few key plays, some of which could be mistakes. So who "wins" the penalty balance could be magnified--expect it to be high emphasis this week in practice & film. We'll see . . . and I know I am somewhat stating the obvious.Â
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - lex24 - 10-28-2017
They need both. Love is a brobdingnagian part of the offense for two reasons:Â 1- hes brilliant. 2. They lack other homerun threats.
So its a double whammy. Defenses have to account for Love every play. If hes not there, defenses have no one to worry about. Which puts more pressure on the QB.Â
No question they need better QB play to beat WSU. One thing that may help that is Bryce Love. I thought Speights might be a threat but he didnt get enough chances. Hes probably a year away.
(10-28-2017, 09:43 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=lex24 link=topic=17816.msg208859#msg208859 date=1509208849]
Not sure what the false narrative is. He said 1. They looked lifeless. 2. They did not get good QB play. 3. They need Love to beat WSU
All three are true.
Stanford does not need Bryce love to beat WSU. Stanford needs good QB play to beat them. I will leave this board and never come back if Love plays and Stanford beats WSU with Chryst completing 54% of his passes and throws at least one pick.
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Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - OutsiderFan - 10-28-2017
We know that if Chryst plays really poorly, Stanford can lose even with Love. We don't know if Stanford can win without Love when Chryst plays poorly, because Chryst hasn't played particularly well in any Stanford loss.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - lex24 - 10-28-2017
I dont get this. If Love doesnt play and the QB play is poor I think we all know the result. No one is suggesting they dont need better QB play vs WSU. And no one is suggesting that Love guarantees a win.
(10-28-2017, 10:09 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:We know that if Chryst plays really poorly, Stanford can lose even with Love. We don't know if Stanford can win without Love when Chryst plays poorly, because Chryst hasn't played particularly well in any Stanford loss.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - JohnR34231 - 10-28-2017
Yeah, Mike White was quite a guy. Mr. Intensity. I'd say Urban Meyer is the current coach that I would liken most to Mike.
Re: Tom Fitzgerald buying into false narrative - ChicagoCard - 10-28-2017
I'd be interested to learn more details of whether Mike White did or didn't have an offer to replace Ralston after the '72 Rose Bowl. I'd always thought, from various things I've read here and there, that Stanford wanted him but he chose Kal, either because Stanford was losing tons of good players or something to do with White being a Kal alumnus.