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WBB: Ohio State 85 Stanford 64 - Printable Version

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WBB: Ohio State 85 Stanford 64 - 81alum - 11-07-2017

Preliminary:

We take on what could be the highest powered offensive team  we have faced in years, led by redshirt junior guard Chelsea Mitchell and redshirt senior forward Stephani Mavunga.  TOSU scored 110 and 135 in their exhibition games.  Mitchell was 9th nationally in scoring last year at 22.6 and is a Kelsey Plum like player.  We take on this experienced team with a very young squad that is in the midst of installing a new offense and managed to score only 60 points against UCSD in our exhibition.  This is what Vanderveer calls "throwing them in the deep end of the pool."

[i][i]Overview after the game:[/i][/i]

A stellar performance by McPhee could not overcome Stanford's inability to rebound or shoot treys.  TOSU had 28 O-boards to our 9.  Mavunga set a TOSU record with 26 rebounds, and Mitchell scored 30.

Flow of the Game:

Vanderveer started our upperclassmen: Smith, McPhee, Sniezek, Romano, and Johnson, but Johnson and Romano exited early and got minimal playtime.  Johnson picked up a foul every time she came in.  I did not see what happened to Romano. 

We held our own through the first quarter and a half of play, leading for the first and last time 33-32 with 6:48 in the second quarter.  We had problems rebounding from the start, but were making up for it by fast breaks led by McPhee. 

TOSU adjusted, used several strategies to slow us down, and our half court offense stagnated.  Meanwhile they launched treys that either went into the basket or were rebounded by Mavunga.  Our starting bigs were completely stymied by Mavunga, Johnson was 0/2, Smith was 3/11.  Our bench bigs did somewhat better--Dodson was 3/6 and Fingall was 2/4.  Every so often McPhee would make a highlight-reel play, and our offense looked slightly improved over the dreadful UCSD showing.

However, on the defensive end, we could barely slow down Mitchell who scored 30 , and the two other starting guards for TOSU also had 15 points each.  Mavunga was dominant both defensively and with O-boards, and no one seemed to be able to get around her.  We needed more accurate and prolific jump shooting, but we kept taking awkward shots around the rim that she altered.  Smith needed to get her jumpshot going but never did.

The game felt out of reach early--by half way through the third quarter it was clear that no adjustments were going to be able to make us rebound the ball.  Part of that seems to have been scheme.  I noticed that when we launched treys, the team would start running back on defense while the ball was in the air, as opposed to trying to track down a possible o-board.

A particularly interesting stat--we shot 48% in the first half but only 25% in the second half, a direct result of the TOSU adjustment.

Performances:

Team:  The "Warriorization" led to us scoring 12 fast break points--much more than happened in most of last year's games.  But we had only 2 second chance points, compared to TOSU with 32.  While 12 fast break points is good to have, it can't overcome a 30 point deficit in second chance points.  Oh, and TOSU had 10 fast break points :(  We held TOSU to 34% shooting, which is not bad, except 5% shooting works just fine if you get 20 rebounds per possession.

McPhee was beautiful to watch and the game of movement was fun for the first 15 minutes of the game.  24 points on 11/22 shooting, however, won't be enough without a supporting cast.

Sniezek shows no signs of improving her offense over the last two years.  She had 5 assists but also 5 turnovers--she makes spectacular assists sometimes but also throws possessions away.  That was the opposite of Roberson, who seldom had her assist numbers but seemed to seldom turn it over.  I think there is room for Williams to become a starting point guard if she can learn the offense before the end of the season.  We need a point guard who is possibly a bit more conservative with the ball but who can regularly contribute points as well.

Smith did not have the moves to get around Mavunga, and she missed her three point shot as well.  She did have three blocks, but merely 5 rebounds in a whole lot of minutes. 

Johnson had just 6 minutes.  She picked up 2 early fouls trying to contain Mavunga and missed both her shots.  A common story with our bigs--many layups that were just too hard as they careened around Mavunga on exaggerated pivots. 

Romano had almost an empty stat line, and had only 3 minutes.  I did not see an injury, but she disappeared early.  I'd like to know why.

Now, from the bench:

Jerome did herself a world of good and was rewarded with 17 minutes.  She shot confidently and was 3/3, including 2/2 from three point range.  She is going to win us a game or two this year.  I could not tell how competent her defense was, but we won't face TOSU every game, and she will get better with experience.  If she can be our next Bonnie/Karlie then perhaps we have found an outside threat.

Dodson played competently and got 26 minutes--effectively a starter's time.  She managed 3/6 even while going head to head with Mavunga.  She also had 2 blocks and 7 badly needed rebounds.  I frankly think she is already one of our best two bigs and should start, although her 4 fouls show that common failing of young posts--Chiney had that problem too.  Her defense needs to come along, but this kid will be starting before the year is over.

Fingall was 2/4 in 11 minutes.  She looked like the Fingall of last year--competent at times and yet not that fluid under the basket.

Carrington played 23 minutes, and while she was 2/8 which looks bad, but I thought she hustled better than the rest of the bench, and she was rewarded with 5 rebounds.

I expected to see more of Williams and Wilson, but neither put much on the stat line--they had 8 minutes each. 

Conclusion:

As with the exhibition, we suffered from poor rebounding but this time it cost us the game.  We need bigs who can compete against other elite bigs--and not just dominate weak opposition.  I think Dodson may be able to grow into that role.  I don't think Smith can do it consistently inside.  She is going to need her face-up shot and it was not in evidence today.

We also suffered from poor three point shooting at a time when we desperately needed to be able to shoot over the top of the Mavunga monster.  I think Jerome may be able to help us do that in the future. 

I continue to be concerned about point guard play, and was surprised not to see Williams getting some more experience.  My guess is that she might be tried out and worked into the lineup beginning with weaker opposition next weekend.

By the time the NCAAs come around, we could see a starting lineup with several freshmen and sophomores.  I think it is clear now that a number of them have more raw talent than the upper class, but are simply too inexperienced and raw to help us in the first couple of games of the year.

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - BobK - 11-07-2017

I have XFINITY and get the game.  Channel 403.  Yes not HD  Also look what you have on Apple TV.  Maybe HD there

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - mbdude - 11-07-2017

Dish 410 avail HD

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - CompSci87 - 11-07-2017

I'll probably watch the game on the btn2go Android app, logging in with my Comcast/Xfinity login, and see it on TV in HD via Chromecast.

Also, https://www.btn2go.com/channel/btnlive works for me on my desktop computer with Comcast/Xfinity login. I'm using Firefox 45.0.2 on Linux.

If it doesn't work for you, you might try the usual voodoo of turning off your ad blocker, clearing cookies and cache, trying a different browser, etc. ...



Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-08-2017

Thanks all.  I had to swap my cable package around a little but now I get the BTN network just fine.

The away-games outside the Pac12 are always an issue.  I think the home games are all on something or another--if only Stanford Live.  The exhibition was not, though, was it?

What is this "FloHoops" thing that the Play4Kay is using? 

It looks like we will need to go up the road to the game at USF on a Wednesday night or miss that one entirely.  I don't think I can handle that on a worknight in the middle of the week.  There is no broadcast listed.  I wonder if there will be any radio?

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - IM in OC - 11-08-2017

(11-08-2017, 07:14 AM)81alum link Wrote:It looks like we will need to go up the road to the game at USF on a Wednesday night or miss that one entirely.  I don't think I can handle that on a worknight in the middle of the week.  There is no broadcast listed.  I wonder if there will be any radio?

This site lists the Stanford at USF game on TheW.tv site
http://www.wccsports.com/sports/w-baskbl/sched/west-w-baskbl-sched-full.html

You will find the game and link to click on this site. Presently it doesnt go as far as the game date.
http://www.wccsports.com/ot/upcoming-events.html

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-09-2017

McPhee is getting some love:

http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/11/7/womens-basketball-mcphee-makes-watch-list.aspx

I think she has been under the radar the last few years as far as any national attention is concerned.  It is partly that she has seemed inconsistent--particularly with her three point shooting.  But she is so gifted at driving and scoring around the basket that if she can get her jump shot working as well in game as it does in practice, she really could be one of the nation's elite guards in her senior year.

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-09-2017

Just checked our records.  The last time Stanford WBB started a season 0-2 was 1997-98.  We have quite frequently dropped one of the first two--Vanderveer often schedules one very tough game at the start of the season.

In 1997 we opened away at Wisconsin and lost 82-90, with 31 turnovers.  Then we went to Purdue and lost 68-78.  That was an ignominious year for other reasons as well.  Despite going 17-1 to win the Pac 10, we lost to the Stanford of the East in the first round of the NCAAs.  That year we had Olympia Scott, Vanessa Nygaard, Kristin Folkl, and Heather Owen among others.  I don't really remember the early part of that season--I imagine that Folkl was not playing yet due to Volleyball, and our guards all seemed very young (Milena Flores and Melody Peterson were sophomores, and I don't recognize the names of the other guards, mostly frosh.) Vanderveer played freshmen for stretches due to foul trouble.  It was the ONLY 0-2 start in Vanderveer's Stanford career.

If we want to get a win out of this trip, it obviously isn't going to come from our offense.  We have to hope that we can play defense tougher than anything Ohio State has seen before.  We have to hope that we can tag team some of our young guards on Kelsey Mitchell.  Stephanie Mavunga, whose brother is married to Jeanette Pohlen, has apparently gotten herself into the best shape of her life.  I imagine we will see Vanderveer bringing a lot of help to frustrate her.

Tara's scouting report defense will probably sell out to stop Mitchell and Mavunga, so the other Ohio State players will have some great opportunities.  Win or lose, we are going to learn who  Coach V thinks our best defenders are. 

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - TheFarm07 - 11-09-2017

I think our fortune on both ends of the court rests on very similar issues.

On the defensive end, focus on Mitchell and Mavunga and make someone else on the Buckeyes beat you, much like when we focused on Griner and Sims with our matchup against Baylor and left Condrey, Hayden, etc. wide open in the 2012 national semis.

Offensively, you know Ohio State will look to stop Alanna and Brit, as they are our top returning scorers. Someone else will have to step up. Does Sniezek finally find a propensity to shoot the ball, especially when left wide open? Will Carrington carry over some of the results she had during the Italy trip? Will Kaylee Johnson add a little offense to her rebounding/defense specialties? Or will Fingall show she's ready to take on significant minutes? Or will Dodson make an immediate splash?

We have a lot of questions and hopefully some good answers.

Yes, it would not be good to start the season 0-2. But it's not a shame to lose the first two against national title contenders. If we learn and improve from these games and then don't drop any head-scratchers like we have like the last few years (Gonzaga last year, Santa Clara the year before that, Arizona in the 14-15 season), then it would not be a terrible trajectory.


Anyway, get excited for some basketball! 7 months has passed since Karlie's terrible ankle injury and our disappointing loss to South Carolina. Hopefully, we will end this season the way it will start -- with a trip to Columbus (site of this season's Final Four)!

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - TheFarm07 - 11-09-2017

I think our fortune on both ends of the court rests on very similar issues.

On the defensive end, focus on Mitchell and Mavunga and make someone else on the Buckeyes beat you, much like when we focused on Griner and Sims with our matchup against Baylor and left Condrey, Hayden, etc. wide open in the 2012 national semis.

Offensively, you know Ohio State will look to stop Alanna and Brit, as they are our top returning scorers. Someone else will have to step up. Does Sniezek finally find a propensity to shoot the ball, especially when left wide open? Will Carrington carry over some of the results she had during the Italy trip? Will Kaylee Johnson add a little offense to her rebounding/defense specialties? Or will Fingall show she's ready to take on significant minutes? Or will Dodson make an immediate splash?

We have a lot of questions and hopefully some good answers.

Yes, it would not be good to start the season 0-2. But it's not a shame to lose the first two against national title contenders. If we learn and improve from these games and then don't drop any head-scratchers like we have like the last few years (Gonzaga last year, Santa Clara the year before that, Arizona in the 14-15 season), then it would not be a terrible trajectory.


Anyway, get excited for some basketball! 7 months has passed since Karlie's terrible ankle injury and our disappointing loss to South Carolina. Hopefully, we will end this season the way it will start -- with a trip to Columbus (site of this season's Final Four)!

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-10-2017

(11-09-2017, 11:50 PM)TheFarm07 link Wrote:Offensively, you know Ohio State will look to stop Alanna and Brit, as they are our top returning scorers. Someone else will have to step up. Does Sniezek finally find a propensity to shoot the ball, especially when left wide open? Will Carrington carry over some of the results she had during the Italy trip? Will Kaylee Johnson add a little offense to her rebounding/defense specialties? Or will Fingall show she's ready to take on significant minutes? Or will Dodson make an immediate splash?
It seems to me that Carrington and Wilson may have the most offensive potential among our sophomores.  Either of them could get hot--Carrington was our leading and most reliable scorer in Italy.  The trouble with Smith and McPhee is they have both been streaky shooters so far in their careers.  I think the points could come from different people each game, much like last year.  And let's not forget Romano, who is a terrific athlete.  Maybe her offense will become steady.  If we witness a miracle today, it will be because Romano or Carrington or Wilson "go off" and surprise TOSU with an offensive outpouring of treys from a player they did not expect.

Dodson and Williams could get some time--particularly if Vanderveer thinks we need Dodson's physical skills on Mavunga or Williams' on Mitchell, but I imagine she would prefer to get them started against much less demanding opponents.  If the frosh get in, it won't be like the line-substitutions of the exhibition.  You only want one person with the "deer in the headlights" look, and can help them by surrounding the one newcomer with four more experienced teammates. 

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-10-2017

(11-09-2017, 11:50 PM)TheFarm07 link Wrote:Offensively, you know Ohio State will look to stop Alanna and Brit, as they are our top returning scorers. Someone else will have to step up. Does Sniezek finally find a propensity to shoot the ball, especially when left wide open? Will Carrington carry over some of the results she had during the Italy trip? Will Kaylee Johnson add a little offense to her rebounding/defense specialties? Or will Fingall show she's ready to take on significant minutes? Or will Dodson make an immediate splash?
It seems to me that Carrington and Wilson may have the most offensive potential among our sophomores.  Either of them could get hot--Carrington was our leading and most reliable scorer in Italy.  The trouble with Smith and McPhee is they have both been streaky shooters so far in their careers.  I think the points could come from different people each game, much like last year.  And let's not forget Romano, who is a terrific athlete.  Maybe her offense will become steady.  If we witness a miracle today, it will be because Romano or Carrington or Wilson "go off" and surprise TOSU with an offensive outpouring of treys from a player they did not expect.

Dodson and Williams could get some time--particularly if Vanderveer thinks we need Dodson's physical skills on Mavunga or Williams' on Mitchell, but I imagine she would prefer to get them started against much less demanding opponents.  If the frosh get in, it won't be like the line-substitutions of the exhibition.  You only want one person with the "deer in the headlights" look, and can help them by surrounding the one newcomer with four more experienced teammates. 

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - mbdude - 11-10-2017

"Offensively, you know Ohio State will look to stop Alanna and Brit, as they are our top returning scorers. Someone else will have to step up. Does Sniezek finally find a propensity to shoot the ball, especially when left wide open? Will Carrington carry over some of the results she had during the Italy trip? Will Kaylee Johnson add a little offense to her rebounding/defense specialties? Or will Fingall show she's ready to take on significant minutes? Or will Dodson make an immediate splash?"

I think that is why we may see Alanna at the high post more often than down low. If she is playing down low teams can easily double on her as there is no other established threat other than Brit. Brit is sure to draw the best perimeter defender.

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - mbdude - 11-10-2017

"Offensively, you know Ohio State will look to stop Alanna and Brit, as they are our top returning scorers. Someone else will have to step up. Does Sniezek finally find a propensity to shoot the ball, especially when left wide open? Will Carrington carry over some of the results she had during the Italy trip? Will Kaylee Johnson add a little offense to her rebounding/defense specialties? Or will Fingall show she's ready to take on significant minutes? Or will Dodson make an immediate splash?"

I think that is why we may see Alanna at the high post more often than down low. If she is playing down low teams can easily double on her as there is no other established threat other than Brit. Brit is sure to draw the best perimeter defender.

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - qwerty49 - 11-10-2017

(11-10-2017, 08:47 AM)mbdude link Wrote:I think that is why we may see Alanna at the high post more often than down low. If she is playing down low teams can easily double on her as there is no other established threat other than Brit. Brit is sure to draw the best perimeter defender.

I like Alanna at the high post.  Strong rebounding and defense from Kaylee and Nadia down low is probably the key to the regular season.  Post-season always seems to come down to guard play, and we'll see how things have jelled there by then.

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - qwerty49 - 11-10-2017

(11-10-2017, 08:47 AM)mbdude link Wrote:I think that is why we may see Alanna at the high post more often than down low. If she is playing down low teams can easily double on her as there is no other established threat other than Brit. Brit is sure to draw the best perimeter defender.

I like Alanna at the high post.  Strong rebounding and defense from Kaylee and Nadia down low is probably the key to the regular season.  Post-season always seems to come down to guard play, and we'll see how things have jelled there by then.

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-10-2017

Here is a Ohio State preview of the game:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-womens-basketball/2017/11/87744/womens-hoops-preview-no-5-ohio-state-hosts-no-10-stanford-in-st-john-arena

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-10-2017

Here is a Ohio State preview of the game:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-womens-basketball/2017/11/87744/womens-hoops-preview-no-5-ohio-state-hosts-no-10-stanford-in-st-john-arena

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-10-2017

Big 10 is interviewing Mitchell in advance of the game now.  She was urged to enter the WNBA draft last spring but stayed to graduate.  Good for her!  She has a chance of passing Kelsey Plum--probably not, but a realistic chance.

Oh, just learned she is a lefty.  Sigh, what else is new--another Plum parallel.  She shoots 43%.

TOSU has 5 seniors.

By the way, Oregon State is tied with North Dakota at the half.  It looks like Stanford is not the only team with early season jitters. 

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Ohio State Friday 3pm pacific - 81alum - 11-10-2017

Big 10 is interviewing Mitchell in advance of the game now.  She was urged to enter the WNBA draft last spring but stayed to graduate.  Good for her!  She has a chance of passing Kelsey Plum--probably not, but a realistic chance.

Oh, just learned she is a lefty.  Sigh, what else is new--another Plum parallel.  She shoots 43%.

TOSU has 5 seniors.

By the way, Oregon State is tied with North Dakota at the half.  It looks like Stanford is not the only team with early season jitters.Â