I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed!

I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Printable Version

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I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - cardcrimson - 11-03-2018

But why does he make it so darn tough to pull for him?!?

The guy's got a ton of integrity. Doesn't turn purple on the sidelines. Doesn't throw kids under the bus. Runs a very, very clean program. Recruits true student athletes.

But good heavens. His stubbornness and lack of creativity have killed us time and time again. His lack of clock management, sadly, has become legendary. On and on and on.

How do we keep the great parts of David Shaw, and fix the rest?

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - nik6 - 11-03-2018

I think he needs a better offensive coordinator than Pritchard, one who will take control of the play calling.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Duck Tears - 11-03-2018

(11-03-2018, 10:18 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: How do we keep the great parts of David Shaw, and fix the rest?

We need someone to pressure Shaw to change the entire structure, management of the offense. Because what got Stanford here is the polar opposite of where it aspires to be.

This is the most disappointing Cardinal offense in recent memory. Not since 2007 has a Stanford failed to score 40 points in a game.

Think of the mismanagement needed to reduce an offense of this caliber to First Year Harbaugh-era levels. It's stunning, really (but no fluke, when you think of what derailed the 2014 and 2016 seasons).

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - BostonCard - 11-03-2018

I mean sure, but this is an odd time to complain. The number of teams that have scored more against UW than Stanford: Oregon (30) and UCLA (24). And we did it in a half. UW has a good defense, folks. And if at halftime you told me that what we would be complaining about at game end was clock management on a potential game winning drive, I’d have asked you what you were smoking.

We fell short of one of the most amazing comebacks in a game (well at least since Oregon). A healthy Jet Toner kicks the extra point and maybe kicks the game-tying 50 yarder. A healthy JJAW is thrown to from the eight yard line.

It sucks we fell short at the end, but rather than focusing on decisions that prevented us from an amazing comeback, I would ask what the hell got us down 21 points in the first place. Yeah, offensive play-calling in the first half, maybe. But also maybe we let UW slice and dice our defense like a knife through hot butter. Maybe you wonder how come we couldn’t stop browning on fourth and friggin 11?

BC

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Phogge - 11-03-2018

Recruit some kids who can tackle. Single most depressing thing about this bunch. Maybe hire Jack Harbaugh to find a couple of Ben Gardners.

For a lesson watch how the UC linebackers play. Aggressive, make big plays. The balance of power in the Bay Area is changing.

And don’t count on an LDS QB to be ready to play when he returns. For God’s sake offer Butterfield.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Austroturf - 11-04-2018

In my view, the issues this team is facing start and stop with the coaching staff. The raw talent is there, maybe not in every position, but there is enough of it.

What I have been concerned about in the Shaw era is his tendency to create a comfortable, family structure in his staff. He has largely promoted his key staff from within and has infused little seasoned talent from outside the system. When he took over in 2011, he had the following key staff members:

Derek Mason, Co-Defensive Coordinator
Pep Hamilton, Offensive Coordinator
Jason Tarver, Co-Defensive Coordinator
Randy Hart, Defensive Line
Mike Bloomgren, Offensive Line
Lance Anderson, OLBs
Shannon Turley, Strength Training
Brian Polian, Special Teams

Tavita Pritchard was a defensive assistant for this team. Of the names listed above, five were eventually poached by other organizations for key roles: Tarver left after 2011 to join the Raiders as defensive coordinator; Polian departed after 2011 and eventually became head coach at Nevada; Hamilton left after 2012 to join the Colts as offensive coordinator; Mason was hired after the 2013 season to take over as head coach at Vanderbilt; and most recently, Mike Bloomgren left to take on the head coaching job at Rice after the 2017 season. Randy Hart retired after the 2015 season.

Today, the two most important roles in Shaw's staff were given to long-term insiders (Anderson, Pritchard). He has brought in some new blood (Diron Reynolds on the D-line, Kevin Carberry on the O-line, Ron Gould at running backs, Duane Akina at D-backs), but it can scarcely be claimed that these hires have been major successes. Shannon Turley is still active as strength coach; and Pete Alamar has certainly earned his stripes as a special teams coach since taking over in 2012 after Polian's departure.

But, seriously, would any major FBS program or NFL organization be interested in poaching any of Shaw's current staff? Would Anderson and Pritchard get equivalent jobs (let alone head coaching jobs) anywhere else? I get the impression Shaw feels that the excellence of Stanford's football program has somehow been absorbed by the walls and that any halfway competent individual can get the job done and maintain the success. Great programs and organizations decay when excellent staff is replaced by those who are merely good enough.

As a simple example, when Randy Hart retired after the impressive 2015 season, there were major concerns about who would take over on the D-line. Hart had been phenomenally successful in that role and had an illustrious track record that included service under coaches such as Woody Hayes, Earle Bruce, Don James, Jim Harbaugh and David Shaw! He was the proverbial "tough act to follow" and had helped build Stanford's defensive identity. Instead of looking for a veteran of Hart's stature, Shaw entrusted the D-line to a former defensive assistant, Diron Reynolds. Yes, recruiting D-line talent has been difficult. But if you are frustrated with how our D-line is performing today, don't blame Randy Hart.

This year, we see the effects of losing a seasoned O-line coach. The performance of our secondary has been intensely frustrating, though on the surface, Akina has had some success in this area. But this year has seen a significant drop-off. In short, Shaw has allowed coaching talent to atrophy and has missed opportunities to bring in seasoned personnel to maintain the level of excellence that produced our best teams.

One final question: has Shaw ever fired a coach for sub-standard performance? I cannot think of a single case.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - 81alum - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 03:36 AM)Austroturf Wrote: In my view, the issues this team is facing start and stop with the coaching staff. The raw talent is there, maybe not in every position, but there is enough of it.

Lance Anderson seems to me to have been quite good as a defensive coordinator in the past, and Duane Akina has helped us to attract top tier talent to the secondary in a way we struggled to do in previous years. It is hard for me to lay too much of the blame for a sub-par season on them.

To my admittedly inexpert eyeballs, nearly everything that is seriously wrong with this team is on the defensive and offensive lines.

On the defensive line we appear to not have the talent to succeed in this league--although more creative coaching might help us to compensate better for that. Are we missing Hart--not only his coaching but his pull in recruiting? I think so.

The offensive line is a completely different story. Despite the injuries, we supposedly have a deep, talented group of offensive linemen--a group that did not lose that much from a year ago. And yet their performance in the run game has just collapsed this year. There simply is no explanation for this regression that does not implicate the coaching. For several years I admit to thinking that Bloomgren was not a good offensive coordinator, but he was always a very good offensive line coach. I think we are keenly feeling his loss now.

Neither Shaw nor our players are well served by speculation about coaching changes 2/3 of the way through the season, but once this season is over I agree that changes need to be made, and quickly.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Hulk01 - 11-04-2018

I have a very different view regarding Randy Hart.

Here are the Stanford DL recruiting classes in this new era, the pre Hart classes and the Hart classes. The notations in parentheses are that player's all conference honors.

The Lance Anderson, D.J. Durkin classes:
2008: Padric Scott
2009: Ben Gardner (2nd, 1st), Josh Mauro (HM), Terrence Stephens (HM)
2010: Henry Anderson (2nd, HM, 1st) , David Parry (HM), Blake Lueders, Eddie Plantaric, Alex Turner

The Randy Hart classes:
2011: Charlie Hopkins, J.B. Salem
2012: Aziz Shittu (1st), Jordan Watkins, Luke Kaumatuele, Nate Lohn, Ikenna Nwafor
2013: None
2014: Solomon Thomas (HM, 1st) Harrison Philllips (HM, 1st)
2015: Dylan Jackson, Wesley Annan
2016: Jovan Swann, Mike Williams, Bo Peek, Thomas Schaffer

These two lists don't help me look favorably on Randy Hart and his recruiting.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Austroturf - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 06:09 AM)81alum Wrote:
(11-04-2018, 03:36 AM)Austroturf Wrote: In my view, the issues this team is facing start and stop with the coaching staff. The raw talent is there, maybe not in every position, but there is enough of it.

Neither Shaw nor our players are well served by speculation about coaching changes 2/3 of the way through the season, but once this season is over I agree that changes need to be made, and quickly.

I am not calling for changes mid-season, but merely pointing out what I see as a decline in the caliber of the coaching staff in key positions. Is Pritchard as good as Bloomgren? Probably not. Was Bloomgren as good as Pep Hamilton? I have my doubts.

Yes, Anderson has been rather good and kept the defense at a high level through 2014 and most of 2015, then the decline began. I do not see him on the same level as Derek Mason, who helped build (together with Randy Hart) the excellent defensive units we saw in the last Harbaugh and early Shaw years (2010-2013).

It should also be noted that most of the attrition in Shaw's initial staff took place between 2011 and 2013. Since then, it has been pretty static (Hart left due to retirement; Bloomgren left for Rice). It is a sign of a strong organization that the staff is constantly being poached for new opportunities and being backfilled by individuals of similar caliber. I tend to see downgrades across the board as the staff has evolved. As I said, Akina has had some success; but this year represent a large regression. Ron Gould is a seasoned coach; and if his backs could get some running lanes, maybe his part of the team could shine. But overall, I see a decay in the overall quality of the coaching staff; and that has an impact on 1) player development; 2) recruiting; 3) game preparation and 4) game management.

And my question again: has Shaw ever fired a coach for low performance? If this has never occurred, it is unlikely to happen after this season. He will lay the blame on execution and point toward other matters (injuries) affecting the overall performance.

(11-04-2018, 06:28 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: I have a very different view regarding Randy Hart.

Here are the Stanford DL recruiting classes in this new era, the pre Hart classes and the Hart classes. The notations in parentheses are that player's all conference honors.

The Lance Anderson, D.J. Durkin classes:
2008: Padric Scott
2009: Ben Gardner (2nd, 1st), Josh Mauro (HM), Terrence Stephens (HM)
2010: Henry Anderson (2nd, HM, 1st) , David Parry (HM), Blake Lueders, Eddie Plantaric, Alex Turner

The Randy Hart classes:
2011: Charlie Hopkins, J.B. Salem
2012: Aziz Shittu (1st), Jordan Watkins, Luke Kaumatuele, Nate Lohn, Ikenna Nwafor
2013: None
2014: Solomon Thomas (HM, 1st) Harrison Philllips (HM, 1st)
2015: Dylan Jackson, Wesley Annan
2016: Jovan Swann, Mike Williams, Bo Peek, Thomas Schaffer

These two lists don't help me look favorably on Randy Hart and his recruiting.

Point taken. But the D-line did perform very well under Hart's aegis. Maybe Hart was benefiting from the earlier work by Anderson and Durkin (who was just let go by Maryland after some turbulent months), but he definitely developed his players well.

In some respects, this data underscores my argument. Hart may not have been an upgrade on the Anderson/Durkin era. But it also appears as if Reynolds is not an upgrade over Hart. The bottom line is that our D-line's performance has been deteriorating; and this points to weaknesses in coaching, recruiting and player development.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - winflop - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 06:28 AM)Austroturf Wrote: It should also be noted that most of the attrition in Shaw's initial staff took place between 2011 and 2013. Since then, it has been pretty static (Hart left due to retirement; Bloomgren left for Rice). It is a sign of a strong organization that the staff is constantly being poached for new opportunities and being backfilled by individuals of similar caliber. I tend to see downgrades across the board as the staff has evolved. As I said, Akina has had some success; but this year represent a large regression. Ron Gould is a seasoned coach; and if his backs could get some running lanes, maybe his part of the team could shine. But overall, I see a decay in the overall quality of the coaching staff; and that has an impact on 1) player development; 2) recruiting; 3) game preparation and 4) game management.

And my question again: has Shaw ever fired a coach for low performance? If this has never occurred, it is unlikely to happen after this season. He will lay the blame on execution and point toward other matters (injuries) affecting the overall performance.

Akina is coaching without both of his starting safeties - Edwards & Simmons - neither of whom has seen much if any of the field this year. Holder has been playing on one leg - I think if this weren't his last year he'd have already had surgery and hoped for a better season next year. Akina is the best coach on the staff - hands down - and that includes Shaw.

I doubt Shaw is going to make any changes but he should. Carberry, Pritchard, and Reynolds should all be gone but I doubt more than one of them actually goes if any at all.

I really hope that at this point they just go for broke. Anderson should be dialing up five and six-man blitzes from the opening snap. The defensive equivalent of "94 feet of hell" in basketball. 60%+ pass plays from the first to the last. Let KJ be KJ!

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Hulk01 - 11-04-2018

Our recent recruiting at DL has been equalled only by our recruiting at WR and QB.
We've never had a collection of DL recruits with offer list like these four:

Ryan Johnson: Offers included Alabama, Oklahoma, LSU, USC, Georgia, Florida, Notre Dame, and Michigan.
Andres Fox: Offers included Alabama, LSU, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Notre Dame, and USC
Daylan Wade-Perry: Offers included Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, and Michigan.
Thomas Booker: Offers included Ohio State, Florida Sate, Michigan, and Notre Dame.

Please do not encourage anyone to get ride of coach Reynolds.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - JPR36 - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 07:19 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: Our recent recruiting at DL has been equalled only by our recruiting at WR and QB.
We've never had a collection of DL recruits with offer list like these four:

Ryan Johnson: Offers included Alabama, Oklahoma, LSU, USC, Georgia, Florida, Notre Dame, and Michigan.
Andres Fox: Offers included Alabama, LSU, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Notre Dame, and USC
Daylan Wade-Perry: Offers included Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, and Michigan.
Thomas Booker: Offers included Ohio State, Florida Sate, Michigan, and Notre Dame.

Please do not encourage anyone to get ride of coach Reynolds.

Yeah, what's the deal on Johnson, anyone know? I thought he was a potential star when we signed him; has he even played? I know he was hurt part of last year, is he OK now?

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - winflop - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 07:19 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: Our recent recruiting at DL has been equalled only by our recruiting at WR and QB.
We've never had a collection of DL recruits with offer list like these four:

Ryan Johnson: Offers included Alabama, Oklahoma, LSU, USC, Georgia, Florida, Notre Dame, and Michigan.
Andres Fox: Offers included Alabama, LSU, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Notre Dame, and USC
Daylan Wade-Perry: Offers included Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, and Michigan.
Thomas Booker: Offers included Ohio State, Florida Sate, Michigan, and Notre Dame.

Please do not encourage anyone to get ride of coach Reynolds.

A good position coach must not only recruit, but develop. Arguably the latter is the more important of the two. Booker is the only one of those four who shows significant promise so far although jury's still out on Fox. Jury's in on the other two and it's not good enough.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - cardcrimson - 11-04-2018

(11-03-2018, 11:20 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I would ask what the hell got us down 21 points in the first place.

You mean like getting a delay of game penalty after a kickoff? Not the first time this season. . . .

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Hulk01 - 11-04-2018

It is way too early to assess Reynold's development of these players. Most fefensive linemen tend to look like recruiting blunders until their third seasons. And Shittu and Mauro showed almost nothing until their final seasons.

Reynolds is dealing with kids--hell, he's giving minutes to two true freshmen, a sign of the brobdingnagian depth problem that Hart left behind.

Next season is the measure of Reynolds coaching because Swann and Williams will be in their fourth years and third seasons. Booker and Fox will be true sophomores but look very promising. Those two are explosive.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Phogge - 11-04-2018

I do a bit of iso during home games. I have seen little of A Fox but Hulk is correct, he has a burst that Jackson lacks. The coaches need to change their attitude a bit and get the best players out there in the final games. This year is toast in terms of championships and top bowl games so get started on 2019 by finding out who can play. Williamson, Perry, Ebo and some other kids need PAC 12 snaps to get ready for next year. What is scary is ILB. Haven’t had a stud since Martinez and there is little depth on next year’s roster. Maybe some position shifts are in order.

Also I disagree with a previous thread about next year’s receivers. You lose your top 3 and there is promise at WR but so far only promise to go on. You have nobody who can replace Smith at TE since Parkinson is really a slot guy. And you haven’t really thrown to your backs since Mac.

Pretty pessimistic overall.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - winflop - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 08:39 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: Reynolds is dealing with kids--hell, he's giving minutes to two true freshmen, a sign of the of immense proportions depth problem that Hart left behind.

They're all dealing with kids. But that's the job. If you are taking 3-4 years to develop them then I'd tend to argue you're not doing it well enough.

I agree with you on guys like Mauro & Shittu but in those days they weren't forced to play earlier because there was a higher consistency & quality year in and year out. Which goes to part two - recruiting.

I do think Reynolds is a bigger question mark as far as keeping than Carberry or Pritchard. Those two are not getting the job done in any capacity.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Hulk01 - 11-04-2018

I am speaking of defensive linemen period. A strong contribution from a college DL in his second year is not common in any program. Solomon Thomas, Scott Crichton, and Leonard Williams are major outliers.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - Austroturf - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 10:07 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: I am speaking of defensive linemen period. A strong contribution from a college DL in his second year is not common in any program. Solomon Thomas, Scott Crichton, and Leonard Williams are major outliers.

So are you saying that the D-line has the talent to be better next year and that Reynolds has the chops to coach and develop the existing talent, while recruiting a pipeline of new talent? A stout D-line is fundamental to Stanford's "identity"; and without one, Shaw will not be able to run his system successfully.

RE: I really really really want Coach Shaw to Succeed! - SamuelMcF - 11-04-2018

(11-04-2018, 09:02 AM)winflop Wrote: I agree with you on guys like Mauro & Shittu but in those days they weren't forced to play earlier because there was a higher consistency & quality year in and year out. Which goes to part two - recruiting.

Agreed. Look at Hulk's list. Besides the 5* studs (Solly and Aziz Shittu), the rest of the Hart recruiting classes were...uh...quite pedestrian beyond Harrison Phillips. 3 good defensive linemen in 5 recruiting classes.

Recruiting under Reynolds:
2017 Ryan Johnson 4*, Dalyn Wade-Perry borderline 3/4*
2018 Thomas Booker 4*, Andres Fox 4* (holding out on hope for Tobe Umerah, borderline 3/4*, but it looks like he's staying at OLB)
2019 Joshua Pakola 4*

Reynolds can recruit. Give me 2-3 years to answer the development question.

To whoever asked what happened to Ryan Johnson, he's been hurt for much of his career, which hinders development.