The CardBoard
Outside Topic Baseball HOF - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic Baseball HOF (/thread-21461.html)

Pages: 1 2

Baseball HOF - terry - 01-25-2021

Baseball Hall of Fame voting results will be announced tomorrow. The contenders include:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Omar Vizquel
Scott Rolen
Todd Helton
Gary Sheffield
Jeff Kent
Billy Wagner
Manny Ramirez

Last year, Schilling got 70%, Clemens and Bonds got 61%, and Vizquel got 53%. Nobody else got more than 36%. Enshrinement requires 75% of the votes.

Any thoughts?

RE: Baseball HOF - Embo - 01-25-2021

(01-25-2021, 01:42 PM)terry Wrote:  Last year, Schilling got 70%, Clemens and Bonds got 61%, and Vizquel got 53%. Nobody else got more than 36%. Enshrinement requires 75% of the votes.

Any thoughts?

I heard the sports anchor on the morning news as I was driving to work.  He predicted zero entrants.  He specifically addressed Schilling and said Schilling hasn't done himself any favors recently.  I just looked up Schilling's tweet just before midnight January 6, and you can imagine.
However, the HOF ballot deadling was Dec 31, so who knows?

RE: Baseball HOF - Giants - 01-25-2021

(01-25-2021, 01:42 PM)terry Wrote:  Baseball Hall of Fame voting results will be announced tomorrow. The contenders include:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Omar Vizquel
Scott Rolen
Todd Helton
Gary Sheffield
Jeff Kent
Billy Wagner
Manny Ramirez

Last year, Schilling got 70%, Clemens and Bonds got 61%, and Vizquel got 53%. Nobody else got more than 36%. Enshrinement requires 75% of the votes.

Any thoughts?

Of the group you noted...

Should get in —- Bonds, Clemens 
Will get in —- Schilling

RE: Baseball HOF - Papa John - 01-25-2021

New to the ballot this year: Mark Buehrle, A.J. Burnett, Michael Cuddyer, Dan Haren, LaTroy Hawkins, Tim Hudson, Torii Hunter, Aramis Ramírez, Nick Swisher, Shane Victorino and Barry Zito. Is it just me or does that list seem weaker than normal?

Amongst the pitchers, only Zito has a Cy Young award (I think). I don't recognize any MVPs.

RE: Baseball HOF - BobK - 01-25-2021

I hope Bobds and Clemens.

RE: Baseball HOF - BostonCard - 01-25-2021

Based on disclosed ballots, we are on pace to have no new Hall of Famers.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dont-expect-to-see-any-players-elected-to-the-baseball-hall-of-fame-this-year/

Here are the projections:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/sarsdell/status/1353487081306206208[/tweet]

I don't want to see Bonds or Clemens in.  They used PEDs.  QED, they shouldn't be in the hall.

BC

lex24 - lex24 - 01-25-2021

(01-25-2021, 04:20 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Based on disclosed ballots, we are on pace to have no new Hall of Famers.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dont-expect-to-see-any-players-elected-to-the-baseball-hall-of-fame-this-year/

Here are the projections:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/sarsdell/status/1353487081306206208[/tweet]

I don't want to see Bonds or Clemens in.  They used PEDs.  QED, they shouldn't be in the hall.

BC

Clemens and Bonds were both HOFers pre Steroids.  And given that Bud Selig is in, denying the hall to those that juiced is hypocritical.   Baseball got a brobdingnagian lift when McGwire and Sosa were hitting 450 foot HRs other day.  Helped it recover from the strike.  And everyone knew they were juiced.  And they laughed all the way to the bank.

Schilling is being denied for political reasons.

RE: Baseball HOF - BostonCard - 01-25-2021

I find it offensive to players like Jeff Kent, who was from the same era, and I think is well known not to have been on steroids.  How much better would his numbers have been had he not been going up against juiced pitchers?  He was a five-time all-star and four-time silver slugger.  Would he have won a little more hardware had he not been compared to other players who were on steroids? 

Clemens and Bonds may have been on pace to make the HoF before starting to use steroids, but they did use steroids and we have no idea what their careers would have done without them.  Plenty of players start out on pace to make the HoF and then decline quickly mid-career.  Lance Armstrong would have been an outstanding cyclist even without doping, and everyone around him was doping; having his Tour wins vacated was still the right thing to do.

Selig of course should not be in the Hall.

I feel strongly about this because I stopped being a baseball fan because of the scandal.  What an awful message to send to society and to kids.  Despite the Mitchell report, I don't think we've ever had a real reckoning from MLB about the steroid era, with an acknowledgement that an entire era has been tainted by steroids, that many of the records from that time were reached with the benefit of PEDs, and that many of the best players' from that era regularly used steroids.  Selig merely acknowledged the report and then put it in the circular filing cabinet.  Shame on MLB.

BC

RE: Baseball HOF - Phogge - 01-26-2021

I’m sorry that you stopped being a fan BC. I worked with a great guy for decades who was a retired world famous athlete in a sport tainted by steroid abuse. In airplanes, in vans, on safari we often talked about the pros and cons of training. Through these conversations it was easy, given our usual access to athletes, to spot some of the cheaters. There was no bigger clue than the “Canseco Twitch.”

From the time that I picked up a tennis ball at age 4 and flung it at our Sunset District marble steps I have loved baseball. Played with and against future major leaguers in college and high level semi-pro winter ball. The cheaters bugged me and still do but it never interfered with enjoying the Game. For the first time in many years I had a summer where I could watch a lot of games and in some ways it was my salvation from worrying about Covid. I wasn’t expecting much but was rewarded with a Giants club that scratched and clawed to a finish that was unexpected given the lack of talent, especially on the mound.

So BC, watch a few games this year and forget about the individuals. Get absorbed in the count, pitch location, how the catcher sets up, etc. The game is more important than the players. As Lex would point out it’s not the same game we learned to play. Not much stealing, hardly any “moving the runner over” and virtually no hit and run. Alas.

I hope you can again enjoy it the way I do. TV baseball and golf lend itself to the mid game 10 minute power nap. Give it a chance, it’s still the best thing we have.

BTW, I enjoy your participation in the trivia. Thanks!

RE: Baseball HOF - Papa John - 01-26-2021

Like BC, I soured on MLB after the steroids era. I was barely aware of the Giants World Series win in 2010! However, my son started playing T-ball at the age of 4 and was on a team called the L'il Angels. He quickly fell in love with the game and started watching MLB Network in the mornings in place of PBS Kids and Disney Junior. He watched as many MLB Angels games, live or recorded, as he could on TV.

When my son turned five my wife and I took him to Anaheim for an Angels versus Tigers game. Mike Trout led off the bottom of the first with a lead-off HR versus Justin Verlander. Trout ended the game by robbing Prince Fielder of a HR.

Thanks to my son I'm a reborn MLB fan. My family went to spring training in Arizona four years ago and had a blast. We have numerous posters of Mike Trout in our house and my son still dreams of being an MLB player.

So this is a long-winded way of saying that I agree with Phogge: there are still plenty of reasons to fall back in love with baseball.

RE: Baseball HOF - Giants - 01-26-2021

(01-25-2021, 11:53 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  I find it offensive to players like Jeff Kent, who was from the same era, and I think is well known not to have been on steroids.  How much better would his numbers have been had he not been going up against juiced pitchers?  He was a five-time all-star and four-time silver slugger.  Would he have won a little more hardware had he not been compared to other players who were on steroids? 

Clemens and Bonds may have been on pace to make the HoF before starting to use steroids, but they did use steroids and we have no idea what their careers would have done without them.  Plenty of players start out on pace to make the HoF and then decline quickly mid-career.  Lance Armstrong would have been an outstanding cyclist even without doping, and everyone around him was doping; having his Tour wins vacated was still the right thing to do.

Selig of course should not be in the Hall.

I feel strongly about this because I stopped being a baseball fan because of the scandal.  What an awful message to send to society and to kids.  Despite the Mitchell report, I don't think we've ever had a real reckoning from MLB about the steroid era, with an acknowledgement that an entire era has been tainted by steroids, that many of the records from that time were reached with the benefit of PEDs, and that many of the best players' from that era regularly used steroids.  Selig merely acknowledged the report and then put it in the circular filing cabinet.  Shame on MLB.

BC

The game endures.  

Baseball has been through a number of scandals in its long history ranging from gambling, racial discrimination, drugs, etc.  Add to these, the labor disputes in recent years and it is a wonder that the game still has such appeal.  However, it does.  In my mind, it is the most compelling sport played at the professional level in this country.  Despite everything, from a paid entertainment perspective, there is no better way to spend an afternoon than watching a game at the ballpark.

RE: Baseball HOF - terry - 01-26-2021

And the new Hall of Famers are . . . nobody. No one reached 75%.

Curt Schilling  (71.1 percent)
Barry Bonds  (61.8)
Roger Clemens  (61.6)
Scott Rolen  (52.9)
Omar Vizquel  (49.1)
Billy Wagner  (46.4)
Todd Helton  (44.9)
Gary Sheffield  (40.6)

Schilling, Bonds, and Clemens increased their percentages slightly compared to last year -- a percentage point or less. Next year will be their last year on the ballot.

RE: Baseball HOF - BostonCard - 01-26-2021

Interesting, Schilling has asked to be removed from the ballot next year:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30784823/no-one-elected-baseball-hall-fame-class-2021

BC

RE: Baseball HOF - Mick - 01-27-2021

(01-25-2021, 02:38 PM)Papa John Wrote:  New to the ballot this year: Mark Buehrle, A.J. Burnett, Michael Cuddyer, Dan Haren, LaTroy Hawkins, Tim Hudson, Torii Hunter, Aramis Ramírez, Nick Swisher, Shane Victorino and Barry Zito. Is it just me or does that list seem weaker than normal?

Amongst the pitchers, only Zito has a Cy Young award (I think). I don't recognize any MVPs.

Hudson's claim to fame is a stellar win/loss record, 222-133, a .625 winning percentage.  there are 80 pitchers in the HoF, and Huddy would rank about 20th based on W/L percentage.  he "only" made three all star teams, was 5th in RoY voting, and finished in the top six for Cy Young voting four times, never winning it.  He had 15 consecutive winning seasons for the A's and Braves, with two losing seasons for the Giants.

Surprised to see Buehrle on the ballot.  Never won 20, led the league in hits allowed four times.  Same with Swisher.  Never led the league in anything, one time all star.  Cuddyer, no all star games, .277 hitter.  Burnett .511 winning percentage, led the league in losses one year.  Why are any of them on the ballot?

RE: Baseball HOF - BostonCard - 01-27-2021

I mean, the HoF ballot is self-correcting since there is a minimum number of voters required (5% of the ballots) to stay on it.

BC

RE: Baseball HOF - Phogge - 01-27-2021

Still think Allie Reynolds should be in. O’Doul too.

RE: Baseball HOF - Papa John - 01-27-2021

Aramis Ramirez, LaTroy Hawkins, Barry Zito, A.J. Burnett, Michael Cuddyer, Dan Haren, Nick Swisher, and Shane Victorino each received less than 5%, so they will not be on future ballots for the HOF. Of the first-year crew, I am most surprised that Zito didn't make it onto next year's ballot, although I know that he nose-dived with the Giants. At least he has his music career to fall back on.

RE: Baseball HOF - magnus - 01-27-2021

(01-26-2021, 08:50 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Interesting, Schilling has asked to be removed from the ballot next year:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30784823/no-one-elected-baseball-hall-fame-class-2021

BC
Haren also asked to be removed from next year's ballot.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ithrow88/status/1354219811585150977?s=20[/tweet]

RE: Baseball HOF - Papa John - 01-27-2021

Yeah, that was humor on Haren's part. He's not eligible for next year's ballot.

RE: Baseball HOF - Mick - 01-28-2021

(01-27-2021, 01:51 PM)Phogge Wrote:  Still think Allie Reynolds should be in. O’Doul too.

I think it's insane that O'Doul isn't in there.  Fourth highest career batting average, and 98% of his ABs were after age 30.  Career-wise, was basically Koufax.  Late bloomer with ridiculous numbers.  Also great ambassador for the game, all the travel in Japan, he did.  Supposedly, Bernard Malamud was inspired by Lefty O'Doul when he created The Natural 's Roy Hobbs.