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Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - OutsiderFan - 11-28-2021

Now that the 2021 is mercifully over and Stanford was dominated on the field in ways few thought possible, it's abundantly clear structural changes are needed to make the program competitive on the field again.

Watching some of the game against Notre Dame, it felt like Stanford was the Little Engine that Could(n't), like they were handing out orange slices and participation trophies if they could do anything competent on the field against a team that so comprehensively overmatched them.

Clearly this isn't acceptable for any school, let alone Stanford, so I figure we could have a thread for everyone to analyze all the program changes that will be being made in terms of coaching staff changes, responsibility shifts, program practices, etc.

One thing that struck me on the ND game broadcast was the announcers pointing out how Brian Kelly used to be the Offensive Coordinator calling the plays, but after a 4-8 season, he gave up that role to become more of a program CEO, and put the game planning and play calling responsibilities on his coordinators. The results speak for themselves. Perhaps David Shaw can learn from Brian Kelly?

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - JohnR34231 - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 06:07 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Now that the 2021 is mercifully over and Stanford was dominated on the field in ways few thought possible, it's abundantly clear structural changes are needed to make the program competitive on the field again.

Watching some of the game against Notre Dame, it felt like Stanford was the Little Engine that Could(n't), like they were handing out orange slices and participation trophies if they could do anything competent on the field against a team that so comprehensively overmatched them.

Clearly this isn't acceptable for any school, let alone Stanford, so I figure we could have a thread for everyone to analyze all the program changes that will be being made in terms of coaching staff changes, responsibility shifts, program practices, etc.

One thing that struck me on the ND game broadcast was the announcers pointing out how Brian Kelly used to be the Offensive Coordinator calling the plays, but after a 4-8 season, he gave up that role to become more of a program CEO, and put the game planning and play calling responsibilities on his coordinators. The results speak for themselves. Perhaps David Shaw can learn from Brian Kelly?

People have been calling on Shaw to do this for years now and he hasn't. Will this be finally the wake-up call that causes him to do it? Stay tuned.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Austroturf - 11-28-2021

While watching UM vs. Ohio State yesterday, the announcers also commented on the sweeping changes Harbaugh made to his staff following the 2020 season when they finished 2-4 in the Covid-shortened campaign.  I had not been aware of these changes, but thought there was an interesting parallel to Stanford's current situation.  Here is a summary of the changes Harbaugh made (from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team):

Coaching changes


On December 22, 2020, Michigan fired defensive coordinator Don Brown after five seasons. Brown was then hired by former Michigan assistant Jedd Fisch as the new defensive coordinator at the University of Arizona on January 6, 2021.

On January 13, 2021, Michigan named former running back Mike Hart as its new running backs coach.

On January 17, 2021, Michigan also announced the hiring of Mike Macdonald as its new defensive coordinator.

Michigan added to their defensive staff on January 20, 2021, announcing the addition of Maurice Linguist as the defensive backs coach and co-defensive coordinator as well as George Helow as the safeties coach.

On January 25, 2021, Michigan finalized their staff by announcing the addition of former player and West Bloomfield High School head coach Ron Bellamy as the wide receivers coach. With this move, Jay Harbaugh moves from running backs coach to tight ends coach and Sherrone Moore shifts from tight ends to offensive line coach replacing Ed Warinner, and adds the title of co-offensive coordinator.

However, more changes came on February 19, 2021, as Brian Jean-Mary left Michigan to become the linebackers coach at Tennessee. On February 22, 2021, Michigan announced the hiring of Baltimore Ravens running backs coach Matt Weiss as the new quarterbacks coach. With the changes, George Helow will move from safeties to replace Jean-Mary as the linebackers coach, and Ron Bellamy will move to safeties coach from the wide receivers position.


An unexpected shakeup came on May 7, 2021 as newly hired cornerbacks coach and co-defensive coordinator Mo Linguist was hired as the head coach at Buffalo to replace Lance Leipold. Michigan moved quickly to replace Linguist, hiring Kentucky assistant coach Steve Clinkscale to become the defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator on May 11.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Phogge - 11-28-2021

First the schedule. Don’t renew the Domer series. Why let them come West every year? Let them play Cal or Sac State to impress recruits when they have SC at home.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Maple Leaf - 11-28-2021

Recruiting, and more recruiting.  During the game the broadcaster listed drop off or more like falling off cliff of recruiting since 2016.

But then Washington State seems to do well with lower recruits and does Oregon State.  So through in Player Development and Coaching.

What would next year look like from both Standford and Michigan if the coaching staffs were swapped?

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - OutsiderFan - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 06:58 AM)Maple Leaf Wrote:  Recruiting, and more recruiting.  During the game the broadcaster listed drop off or more like falling off cliff of recruiting since 2016.

But then Washington State seems to do well with lower recruits and does Oregon State.  So through in Player Development and Coaching.

What would next year look like from both Standford and Michigan if the coaching staffs were swapped?

I also was watching at that time, and not only was fall-off in recruiting mentioned, so too was inability to develop the best prospects, my biggest beef with the current regime. Great recruiting pitch, ugh.  Of course, only about 500k people were likely watching, but still, not a great look for a program to be dragged on national TV like that.  I mean isn't the on field disaster enough humiliation for one evening?

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - JohnR34231 - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 06:49 AM)Phogge Wrote:  First the schedule. Don’t renew the Domer series. Why let them come West every year? Let them play Cal or Sac State to impress recruits when they have SC at home.

When we aren't doing well people always suggest dumbing down the schedule. How about coaching up the team. We have shown we can compete with the Domers in the past,; no reason we can't do it again. Plus I would think having them on our schedule is good for us financially, which the fans don't have to worry about but the university does.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Maple Leaf - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 07:16 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  
(11-28-2021, 06:58 AM)Maple Leaf Wrote:  Recruiting, and more recruiting.  During the game the broadcaster listed drop off or more like falling off cliff of recruiting since 2016.

But then Washington State seems to do well with lower recruits and does Oregon State.  So through in Player Development and Coaching.

What would next year look like from both Standford and Michigan if the coaching staffs were swapped?

I also was watching at that time, and not only was fall-off in recruiting mentioned, so too was inability to develop the best prospects, my biggest beef with the current regime. Great recruiting pitch, ugh.  Of course, only about 500k people were likely watching, but still, not a great look for a program to be dragged on national TV like that.  I mean isn't the on field disaster enough humiliation for one evening?

11 wins and 19 losses over the last three years....ouch!

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - SF_Cardinal_Fan - 11-28-2021

It seems to me that Stanford football needs a new head coach.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - pcgoode - 11-28-2021

There are many problems with the program, but it starts with the play along the lines. We may or may not be able to get better athletes for the O line and the front seven, but I have a strong belief that our strength and conditioning program is abysmal. We can’t run or pass block, and we can’t stop the run or get pressure on opposing QBs, and a lot of that is because our athletes aren’t strong or fast enough. Until this is improved, this program will struggle, and it won’t matter who is calling the plays or coaching the players.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - gailtate - 11-28-2021

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - 82lsju - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 07:27 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  
(11-28-2021, 06:49 AM)Phogge Wrote:  First the schedule. Don’t renew the Domer series. Why let them come West every year? Let them play Cal or Sac State to impress recruits when they have SC at home.

When we aren't doing well people always suggest dumbing down the schedule. How about coaching up the team. We have shown we can compete with the Domers in the past,; no reason we can't do it again. Plus I would think having them on our schedule is good for us financially, which the fans don't have to worry about but the university does.

I'd also drop ND and replace them with home and home games against other Power Five teams,  I have done the ND trip three times and don't have any interest in going to South Bend again and would be up for roadtrips to other schools.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Hurlburt88 - 11-28-2021

My 2 cents:   

  1. I am assuming they keep Shaw, and I am fine with it for one more "probationary" year in which clear progress must occur
  2. Top priority is keeping incoming class intact
  3. Next is minimizing undesirable attrition out of the program, including upper classmen with remaining eligibility who can contribute.   The last few years have felt like too many contributors leaving early
  4. Improve S&C 
  5. Rebuild defensive staff from ground up.   
  6. Make targeted changes in offensive staffing without losing focus on rebuilding defensive staff from ground up.  


RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - slide - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 09:03 AM)Hurlburt88 Wrote:  My 2 cents:   

  1. I am assuming they keep Shaw, and I am fine with it for one more "probationary" year in which clear progress must occur
  2. Top priority is keeping incoming class intact
  3. Next is minimizing undesirable attrition out of the program, including upper classmen with remaining eligibility who can contribute.   The last few years have felt like too many contributors leaving early
  4. Improve S&C 
  5. Rebuild defensive staff from ground up.   
  6. Make targeted changes in offensive staffing without losing focus on rebuilding defensive staff from ground up.  

Stanford 121st in total offense in 2021 and it was in free fall by the season's end.  averaged 77 yards in the 1st halves of the last 4 games.  take the Denny's playsheet away from Shaw and hire an OC.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Goose - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 06:27 AM)Austroturf Wrote:  While watching UM vs. Ohio State yesterday, the announcers also commented on the sweeping changes Harbaugh made to his staff following the 2020 season when they finished 2-4 in the Covid-shortened campaign.  I had not been aware of these changes, but thought there was an interesting parallel to Stanford's current situation.  Here is a summary of the changes Harbaugh made (from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team):

Coaching changes


On December 22, 2020, Michigan fired defensive coordinator Don Brown after five seasons. Brown was then hired by former Michigan assistant Jedd Fisch as the new defensive coordinator at the University of Arizona on January 6, 2021.

On January 13, 2021, Michigan named former running back Mike Hart as its new running backs coach.

On January 17, 2021, Michigan also announced the hiring of Mike Macdonald as its new defensive coordinator.

Michigan added to their defensive staff on January 20, 2021, announcing the addition of Maurice Linguist as the defensive backs coach and co-defensive coordinator as well as George Helow as the safeties coach.

On January 25, 2021, Michigan finalized their staff by announcing the addition of former player and West Bloomfield High School head coach Ron Bellamy as the wide receivers coach. With this move, Jay Harbaugh moves from running backs coach to tight ends coach and Sherrone Moore shifts from tight ends to offensive line coach replacing Ed Warinner, and adds the title of co-offensive coordinator.

However, more changes came on February 19, 2021, as Brian Jean-Mary left Michigan to become the linebackers coach at Tennessee. On February 22, 2021, Michigan announced the hiring of Baltimore Ravens running backs coach Matt Weiss as the new quarterbacks coach. With the changes, George Helow will move from safeties to replace Jean-Mary as the linebackers coach, and Ron Bellamy will move to safeties coach from the wide receivers position.


An unexpected shakeup came on May 7, 2021 as newly hired cornerbacks coach and co-defensive coordinator Mo Linguist was hired as the head coach at Buffalo to replace Lance Leipold. Michigan moved quickly to replace Linguist, hiring Kentucky assistant coach Steve Clinkscale to become the defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator on May 11.
First of all, many of these changes weren't necessarily made by Harbaugh. Guys left for better/equivalent jobs. There is a lot of churn here. Guys already in the program getting different positions. From the many recent changes I would conclude that maybe it doesn't much matter who was coaching. A change made in January 2021 probably will have somewhat limited effect this year. If one read this list without knowing what team was involved, it sounds most like Arizona.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Mick - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 09:15 AM)branner Wrote:  Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

Based upon that comment, published data, and comments that my kids made to me six and ten years ago, I'd agree with the woke comments.  Perhaps Stanford should get rid of all sports, and just give in to the tide.

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - BostonCard - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 09:15 AM)branner Wrote:  We appeared to have no vertical game. Most of our offensive motion was side-to-side. We seemed to be almost afraid to throw the ball down the field. Even when we were far behind with the clock working against us, Shaw did not appear to be calling plays to win, but rather to keep the score as close as possible.

Back when I watched every game, I didn't like Shaw's play-calling. Nothing I saw last night changed that opinion. Football requires adaptation and evolution. Shaw appears to be of the view "We have a style and that's who we're going to be, no matter what." That's a prescription for eventual failure, if true.

The irony is that the lateral passing game is the evolution.  We used to almost never do that.  Shaw used to use a running game to key off a play action passing game downfield.  My guess is that now that the running game sucks, he is using the sideline passing game as an alternative, but I agree with you, it does not suit McKee or our receivers, who are not especially good shaking off a tackle at the line of scrimmage.

I think the analysis that begins and ends with “Shaw is stubborn and keeps doing the same stuff that doesn’t work” is not supported by the facts.  It really looks like what we used to do is not working any more, and now Shaw is throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks (nothing is).  This is what some people mean when they say we’ve lost our identity.  But it is hard to have an identity when you don’t teach the players one.

BC

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Maple Leaf - 11-28-2021

Less than 24 hours after losing to Purdue and finishing last place in the Big 10, Indiana announced that head coach Tom Allen has accepted a pay cut to help pay for the firing of the offensive coordinator.  Would this happen at Stanford?

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - Eucalyptus72 - 11-28-2021

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

RE: Stanford Football 2021 Post-Mortem Thread - DC 86 - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 10:34 AM)Mick Wrote:  
(11-28-2021, 09:15 AM)branner Wrote:  Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

Based upon that comment, published data, and comments that my kids made to me six and ten years ago, I'd agree with the woke comments.  Perhaps Stanford should get rid of all sports, and just give in to the tide.

Is Stanford really the "epicenter of the woke movement", moreso than Kal for example?

Regardless, does wokeness (or perceived wokeness) impede recruiting?

Niche.com has a ranking of the "most liberal colleges in America". Only two P5 schools are currently in the top ten: Northwestern and Oregon. How has Oregon's football recruiting gone the past few years?

Oregon's Class of 2022 (currently ranked tenth in the 247 composite) includes two players from Alabama, four from Texas, two from Utah and one from Oklahoma. So their liberal bent doesn't seem to be affecting red state recruiting.