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Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-19-2016


Ezekiel Elliott‏ @EzekielElliott

All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games 🤔.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-19-2016


Ezekiel Elliott‏ @EzekielElliott

All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games 🤔.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:11 PM)Mick link Wrote:I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15.  Okay, let's see that happen.  CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.

So let's see what happens.  His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27.  Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
The most recent ESPN mock draft that I found actually had McCaffrey at #32.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/18266694/todd-mcshay-2017-nfl-mock-draft-10
The most recent Bleacher Report mock does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682592-2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-predictions-for-top-prospects-after-week-15
The most recent SB Nation mock also does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2016/12/19/14003322/2017-nfl-mock-draft-alabama-jonathan-allen-reuben-foster-mitch-trubisky
Pro Football Focus also does not have McCaffrey in the first round:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-jonathan-allen-myles-garrett-first-2017-mock-draft/
Sports Illustrated did a mock first round on their podcast and McCaffrey was not selected:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/02/clock-podcast-mocking-2017s-first-round.

There so many mocks posted (and updated) that I believe the ESPN, BR, SN and PFF mocks are the most recent without being 100% certain, not sure about SI, but recently I have seen McCaffrey described as projected for the second round in most articles and mock drafts.

In any case, if he rises/falls between now and the draft it will surely be due to his combine performance and interviews more than his bowl game decision.


Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:11 PM)Mick link Wrote:I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15.  Okay, let's see that happen.  CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.

So let's see what happens.  His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27.  Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
The most recent ESPN mock draft that I found actually had McCaffrey at #32.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/18266694/todd-mcshay-2017-nfl-mock-draft-10
The most recent Bleacher Report mock does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682592-2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-predictions-for-top-prospects-after-week-15
The most recent SB Nation mock also does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2016/12/19/14003322/2017-nfl-mock-draft-alabama-jonathan-allen-reuben-foster-mitch-trubisky
Pro Football Focus also does not have McCaffrey in the first round:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-jonathan-allen-myles-garrett-first-2017-mock-draft/
Sports Illustrated did a mock first round on their podcast and McCaffrey was not selected:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/02/clock-podcast-mocking-2017s-first-round.

There so many mocks posted (and updated) that I believe the ESPN, BR, SN and PFF mocks are the most recent without being 100% certain, not sure about SI, but recently I have seen McCaffrey described as projected for the second round in most articles and mock drafts.

In any case, if he rises/falls between now and the draft it will surely be due to his combine performance and interviews more than his bowl game decision.


Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:44 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=16307.msg183063#msg183063 date=1482183280]
[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16307.msg183060#msg183060 date=1482182735]

As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.
You don't see a significant increase in risk playing in a live football game as opposed to running sprints and lifting weights at a training camp? I am familiar with Jaylon Smith, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore et al but can't think of any players who suffered devastating injuries during combine prep.
[/quote]

Both Dan (pec) and Chris Gronkowski (hamstring) suffered injuries at regional combines.  Shahid Paulhill had a head injury at the Lions' combine.  Vick Ballard got a concussion.  Julio Jones broke a foot.  DC Jefferson, Rutgers had bench press injury.
[/quote]
C-Mac is going to the combine regardless of whether he plays in the Sun Bowl or not, so the risk of injury at the combine is the same either way. The comparison was between individual training for the combine and participating in a live football game.

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:44 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=16307.msg183063#msg183063 date=1482183280]
[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16307.msg183060#msg183060 date=1482182735]

As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.
You don't see a significant increase in risk playing in a live football game as opposed to running sprints and lifting weights at a training camp? I am familiar with Jaylon Smith, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore et al but can't think of any players who suffered devastating injuries during combine prep.
[/quote]

Both Dan (pec) and Chris Gronkowski (hamstring) suffered injuries at regional combines.  Shahid Paulhill had a head injury at the Lions' combine.  Vick Ballard got a concussion.  Julio Jones broke a foot.  DC Jefferson, Rutgers had bench press injury.
[/quote]
C-Mac is going to the combine regardless of whether he plays in the Sun Bowl or not, so the risk of injury at the combine is the same either way. The comparison was between individual training for the combine and participating in a live football game.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016

Myles Garrett (widely projected as a potential #1 overall pick) also stated something to the same effect, that he would be playing in A&M's upcoming bowl game alongside his teammates.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016

Myles Garrett (widely projected as a potential #1 overall pick) also stated something to the same effect, that he would be playing in A&M's upcoming bowl game alongside his teammates.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Hurlburt88 - 12-19-2016

I am stunned and disappointed.  This does not seem consistent with his other statements, behavior, and role as captain.  So I am choosing to snuggle in a blanket of naivete and believe that he is either still nursing some dings, or that he tweaked something in the last 2 weeks. 

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Hurlburt88 - 12-19-2016

I am stunned and disappointed.  This does not seem consistent with his other statements, behavior, and role as captain.  So I am choosing to snuggle in a blanket of naivete and believe that he is either still nursing some dings, or that he tweaked something in the last 2 weeks. 

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:36 PM)Goose link Wrote:I do not agree with lots of the folks who say that CMac is being selfish.


To quote McCaffrey "Very tough decision, but I have decided not to play in the Sun Bowl so I can begin my draft prep immediately."  That's the very definition of selfish.  He made a decision to the detriment of his team and -- by his own admission -- to benefit himself.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:36 PM)Goose link Wrote:I do not agree with lots of the folks who say that CMac is being selfish.


To quote McCaffrey "Very tough decision, but I have decided not to play in the Sun Bowl so I can begin my draft prep immediately."  That's the very definition of selfish.  He made a decision to the detriment of his team and -- by his own admission -- to benefit himself.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 03:05 PM)hurlburt88 link Wrote:I am stunned and disappointed.  This does not seem consistent with his other statements, behavior, and role as captain.  So I am choosing to snuggle in a blanket of naivete and believe that he is either still nursing some dings, or that he tweaked something in the last 2 weeks.


Then why wouldn't he say "I can't play in the Sun Bowl because I'm injured."


Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 03:05 PM)hurlburt88 link Wrote:I am stunned and disappointed.  This does not seem consistent with his other statements, behavior, and role as captain.  So I am choosing to snuggle in a blanket of naivete and believe that he is either still nursing some dings, or that he tweaked something in the last 2 weeks.


Then why wouldn't he say "I can't play in the Sun Bowl because I'm injured."


Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:45 PM)thunder_chik link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16303.msg183028#msg183028 date=1482177240]
[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=16303.msg182961#msg182961 date=1482158561]
Fournette announced earlier this month that he would forego his team's bowl game to "prepare" for the draft. A euphemism for "I don't want to get injured".
If we were in the Rose Bowl, I think CMac would play.  But to risk damage in what is essentially an exhibition-type game vs an unranked opponent...I really don't fault his decision.
Nevertheless, I am disappointed.  :'(



So as near I can tell "I don't want to get injured" gives moral authority for any senior who doesn't want to play in the bowl game.  Right?
[/quote]

No, I don't agree and I'm certainly not prepared to render a moral or ethical judgment about his (or anyone else's) decision--yet. I would like more information about the formulation of his decision. I suspect his dad, from past experiences and comments, had a lot of input in convincing Christian to forego his senior year as well as this upcoming bowl game.  If Fournette hadn't announced earlier, would CMac gone ahead with it?  I do wonder what legal ramifications there might be when a player who is on scholarship decides not to complete the season with his team.  Did CMac need to get the OK from Stanford Athletics and/or David Shaw?  It will be interesting to see if this becomes a trend and how the schools (and fans) deal with it.
[/quote]


I don't understand your post.  Why would it be acceptable for Christian McCaffrey to forego participation in the Sun Bowl and not the other seniors?  They won't be playing for Stanford next year, same as Christian.  They're seniors, same as Christian.  They accepted a scholarship, same as Christian.  The risk of injury is there for them as well as Christian.  So why don't they have moral authority to quit as well?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:45 PM)thunder_chik link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16303.msg183028#msg183028 date=1482177240]
[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=16303.msg182961#msg182961 date=1482158561]
Fournette announced earlier this month that he would forego his team's bowl game to "prepare" for the draft. A euphemism for "I don't want to get injured".
If we were in the Rose Bowl, I think CMac would play.  But to risk damage in what is essentially an exhibition-type game vs an unranked opponent...I really don't fault his decision.
Nevertheless, I am disappointed.  :'(



So as near I can tell "I don't want to get injured" gives moral authority for any senior who doesn't want to play in the bowl game.  Right?
[/quote]

No, I don't agree and I'm certainly not prepared to render a moral or ethical judgment about his (or anyone else's) decision--yet. I would like more information about the formulation of his decision. I suspect his dad, from past experiences and comments, had a lot of input in convincing Christian to forego his senior year as well as this upcoming bowl game.  If Fournette hadn't announced earlier, would CMac gone ahead with it?  I do wonder what legal ramifications there might be when a player who is on scholarship decides not to complete the season with his team.  Did CMac need to get the OK from Stanford Athletics and/or David Shaw?  It will be interesting to see if this becomes a trend and how the schools (and fans) deal with it.
[/quote]


I don't understand your post.  Why would it be acceptable for Christian McCaffrey to forego participation in the Sun Bowl and not the other seniors?  They won't be playing for Stanford next year, same as Christian.  They're seniors, same as Christian.  They accepted a scholarship, same as Christian.  The risk of injury is there for them as well as Christian.  So why don't they have moral authority to quit as well?

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:54 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16307.msg183057#msg183057 date=1482181885]
I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15.  Okay, let's see that happen.  CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.

So let's see what happens.  His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27.  Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
The most recent ESPN mock draft that I found actually had McCaffrey at #32.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/18266694/todd-mcshay-2017-nfl-mock-draft-10
The most recent Bleacher Report mock does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682592-2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-predictions-for-top-prospects-after-week-15
The most recent SB Nation mock also does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2016/12/19/14003322/2017-nfl-mock-draft-alabama-jonathan-allen-reuben-foster-mitch-trubisky
Pro Football Focus also does not have McCaffrey in the first round:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-jonathan-allen-myles-garrett-first-2017-mock-draft/
Sports Illustrated did a mock first round on their podcast and McCaffrey was not selected:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/02/clock-podcast-mocking-2017s-first-round.

There so many mocks posted (and updated) that I believe the ESPN, BR, SN and PFF mocks are the most recent without being 100% certain, not sure about SI, but recently I have seen McCaffrey described as projected for the second round in most articles and mock drafts.

In any case, if he rises/falls between now and the draft it will surely be due to his combine performance and interviews more than his bowl game decision.
[/quote]

Why?  How do you know?

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016

(12-19-2016, 02:54 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16307.msg183057#msg183057 date=1482181885]
I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15.  Okay, let's see that happen.  CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.

So let's see what happens.  His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27.  Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
The most recent ESPN mock draft that I found actually had McCaffrey at #32.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/18266694/todd-mcshay-2017-nfl-mock-draft-10
The most recent Bleacher Report mock does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682592-2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-predictions-for-top-prospects-after-week-15
The most recent SB Nation mock also does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2016/12/19/14003322/2017-nfl-mock-draft-alabama-jonathan-allen-reuben-foster-mitch-trubisky
Pro Football Focus also does not have McCaffrey in the first round:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-jonathan-allen-myles-garrett-first-2017-mock-draft/
Sports Illustrated did a mock first round on their podcast and McCaffrey was not selected:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/02/clock-podcast-mocking-2017s-first-round.

There so many mocks posted (and updated) that I believe the ESPN, BR, SN and PFF mocks are the most recent without being 100% certain, not sure about SI, but recently I have seen McCaffrey described as projected for the second round in most articles and mock drafts.

In any case, if he rises/falls between now and the draft it will surely be due to his combine performance and interviews more than his bowl game decision.
[/quote]

Why?  How do you know?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - teejers1 - 12-19-2016

All those defending C-Mac's decision:  at least be honest with yourself and us and admit that C-Mac made this decision based solely on his perceived self-interest.  Translation:  he's being selfish.  Period.  If you're fine with that - okay.  Not everyone is, even if everyone recognizes that this is entirely CM's decision to make.

Quit calling it an Exhibition Game - as Mick pointed out, it's the exact opposite of that (even if it's not the bowl game everyone was hoping for going into the season).

Quit saying that it's okay to miss this game because it could impact his NFL future - if you buy that, then he could have mailed it in this year and not played at all, after putting together the all-time best season by a RB ever last year.  There is no rational basis for saying "he should play in Games 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 this season, but not the bowl game.  It's disingenuous to argue otherwise.

Quit saying his teammates are with him.  C'mon, do you really believe that?  Some . . . maybe.  But I'd bet good money a bunch of them are pissed off that he is bailing on them in the season finale.

Finally, do you think C-Mac would have bailed on Harbaugh in a Michigan bowl game?  Or Urban?  Or Nick?  Sorry, but I view this as a show of disrespect to Shaw and staff, too - not just the other players on the team.


Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - teejers1 - 12-19-2016

All those defending C-Mac's decision:  at least be honest with yourself and us and admit that C-Mac made this decision based solely on his perceived self-interest.  Translation:  he's being selfish.  Period.  If you're fine with that - okay.  Not everyone is, even if everyone recognizes that this is entirely CM's decision to make.

Quit calling it an Exhibition Game - as Mick pointed out, it's the exact opposite of that (even if it's not the bowl game everyone was hoping for going into the season).

Quit saying that it's okay to miss this game because it could impact his NFL future - if you buy that, then he could have mailed it in this year and not played at all, after putting together the all-time best season by a RB ever last year.  There is no rational basis for saying "he should play in Games 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 this season, but not the bowl game.  It's disingenuous to argue otherwise.

Quit saying his teammates are with him.  C'mon, do you really believe that?  Some . . . maybe.  But I'd bet good money a bunch of them are pissed off that he is bailing on them in the season finale.

Finally, do you think C-Mac would have bailed on Harbaugh in a Michigan bowl game?  Or Urban?  Or Nick?  Sorry, but I view this as a show of disrespect to Shaw and staff, too - not just the other players on the team.