CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Printable Version
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Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-19-2016
I wonder if CM would have had as good a Rose Bowl last year if Garnett, Hooper, Hogan had decided to take the game off?
Yes, not the exact same situation, but the point is that it's a team, and people rely on each other, until they can't.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-19-2016
I wonder if CM would have had as good a Rose Bowl last year if Garnett, Hooper, Hogan had decided to take the game off?
Yes, not the exact same situation, but the point is that it's a team, and people rely on each other, until they can't.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - VFRing98 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:20 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:All those defending C-Mac's decision: at least be honest with yourself and us and admit that C-Mac made this decision based solely on his perceived self-interest. Translation: he's being selfish. Period. If you're fine with that - okay. Not everyone is, even if everyone recognizes that this is entirely CM's decision to make.
Quit calling it an Exhibition Game - as Mick pointed out, it's the exact opposite of that (even if it's not the bowl game everyone was hoping for going into the season).
Quit saying that it's okay to miss this game because it could impact his NFL future - if you buy that, then he could have mailed it in this year and not played at all, after putting together the all-time best season by a RB ever last year. There is no rational basis for saying "he should play in Games 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 this season, but not the bowl game. It's disingenuous to argue otherwise.
Quit saying his teammates are with him. C'mon, do you really believe that? Some . . . maybe. But I'd bet good money a bunch of them are pissed off that he is bailing on them in the season finale.
Finally, do you think C-Mac would have bailed on Harbaugh in a Michigan bowl game? Or Urban? Or Nick? Sorry, but I view this as a show of disrespect to Shaw and staff, too - not just the other players on the team.
Point by point:
Yes, he's acting in his self-interest. Good for him. I'm always happy to see a college athlete exercise some of his or her very limited agency.
Yes, it's an exhibition. A meaningless game at the end of a long season that doesn't impact a) PAC12 standings, b) won't materially effect Stanford's ranking, and 3) won't impact any mythical national championship standings. Up until a few years ago, THE STATS FROM BOWL GAMES DIDN'T EVEN COUNT.
Yes, it's a rational decision, and there is a distinction between skipping this game and bailing after an earlier game in the season. Even after putting together the best season in college football history, he still had things to prove to the NFL. So he put on some muscle, focused on maintaining his speed, etc. and came back (and as a reward got to run behind a crap offensive line that only showed mere competence against crappier opponents). Playing this year increased his draft stock, as compared to completely sitting out, even if all it did was show that he could maintain that high level of performance.Â
Yes, all signs are that his teammates are with him. Sure, some may not be. I bet they understand why he did it, though. Any rational being does.
Yes, I agree with you that one could view this as a personal affront to Shaw. No basis for that, though. And we didn't have to actually play in that CU game. Or WSU game. No disrespect to Shaw, but his offense sucked for half the year. But I'm curious why you bring this up?
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - VFRing98 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:20 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:All those defending C-Mac's decision: at least be honest with yourself and us and admit that C-Mac made this decision based solely on his perceived self-interest. Translation: he's being selfish. Period. If you're fine with that - okay. Not everyone is, even if everyone recognizes that this is entirely CM's decision to make.
Quit calling it an Exhibition Game - as Mick pointed out, it's the exact opposite of that (even if it's not the bowl game everyone was hoping for going into the season).
Quit saying that it's okay to miss this game because it could impact his NFL future - if you buy that, then he could have mailed it in this year and not played at all, after putting together the all-time best season by a RB ever last year. There is no rational basis for saying "he should play in Games 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 this season, but not the bowl game. It's disingenuous to argue otherwise.
Quit saying his teammates are with him. C'mon, do you really believe that? Some . . . maybe. But I'd bet good money a bunch of them are pissed off that he is bailing on them in the season finale.
Finally, do you think C-Mac would have bailed on Harbaugh in a Michigan bowl game? Or Urban? Or Nick? Sorry, but I view this as a show of disrespect to Shaw and staff, too - not just the other players on the team.
Point by point:
Yes, he's acting in his self-interest. Good for him. I'm always happy to see a college athlete exercise some of his or her very limited agency.
Yes, it's an exhibition. A meaningless game at the end of a long season that doesn't impact a) PAC12 standings, b) won't materially effect Stanford's ranking, and 3) won't impact any mythical national championship standings. Up until a few years ago, THE STATS FROM BOWL GAMES DIDN'T EVEN COUNT.
Yes, it's a rational decision, and there is a distinction between skipping this game and bailing after an earlier game in the season. Even after putting together the best season in college football history, he still had things to prove to the NFL. So he put on some muscle, focused on maintaining his speed, etc. and came back (and as a reward got to run behind a crap offensive line that only showed mere competence against crappier opponents). Playing this year increased his draft stock, as compared to completely sitting out, even if all it did was show that he could maintain that high level of performance.Â
Yes, all signs are that his teammates are with him. Sure, some may not be. I bet they understand why he did it, though. Any rational being does.
Yes, I agree with you that one could view this as a personal affront to Shaw. No basis for that, though. And we didn't have to actually play in that CU game. Or WSU game. No disrespect to Shaw, but his offense sucked for half the year. But I'm curious why you bring this up?
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - VFRing98 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:49 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - VFRing98 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:49 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:18 PM)Mick link Wrote:Why? How do you know?Obviously there is no way to KNOW, but I base my statement on the following:
I find it very hard to believe that McCaffrey and Fournette decided to bypass their bowl games without the active endorsement (or even encouragement) of the NFL. McCaffrey's father is a well connected former NFL player, Fournette is represented by Jay Z's Roc Nation which represents numerous high profile athletes (e.g. Durant, Cano, Gurley, Suh, Cespedes) so it seems unlikely that they decided to makes these decisions on their own, instead almost surely after consulting with NFL teams, which leads me to the conclusion that the NFL does not view their decisions negatively (perhaps positively) and thus won't negatively impact their draft evaluation.
On the other hand, there are numerous cases of skill position players falling after posting a poor 40 time or poor 20 shuttle time or measuring in much smaller than listed, so it seems far more likely that something along those lines would cause McCaffrey to fall if indeed he does fall. In any case, given his current second round projection I think the likelihood of someone (Patriots?) becoming enamored with him and choosing him in the first round is greater than the likelihood of him falling to the third round, but that's purely a guess on my part.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:18 PM)Mick link Wrote:Why? How do you know?Obviously there is no way to KNOW, but I base my statement on the following:
I find it very hard to believe that McCaffrey and Fournette decided to bypass their bowl games without the active endorsement (or even encouragement) of the NFL. McCaffrey's father is a well connected former NFL player, Fournette is represented by Jay Z's Roc Nation which represents numerous high profile athletes (e.g. Durant, Cano, Gurley, Suh, Cespedes) so it seems unlikely that they decided to makes these decisions on their own, instead almost surely after consulting with NFL teams, which leads me to the conclusion that the NFL does not view their decisions negatively (perhaps positively) and thus won't negatively impact their draft evaluation.
On the other hand, there are numerous cases of skill position players falling after posting a poor 40 time or poor 20 shuttle time or measuring in much smaller than listed, so it seems far more likely that something along those lines would cause McCaffrey to fall if indeed he does fall. In any case, given his current second round projection I think the likelihood of someone (Patriots?) becoming enamored with him and choosing him in the first round is greater than the likelihood of him falling to the third round, but that's purely a guess on my part.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:37 PM)VFRing98 link Wrote:[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
So did CM. And virtually no one questioned him leaving a year early. The questioning came when he, a team captain, left before the end of the current season (after saying two weeks earlier that he was committed to playing).
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:37 PM)VFRing98 link Wrote:[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
So did CM. And virtually no one questioned him leaving a year early. The questioning came when he, a team captain, left before the end of the current season (after saying two weeks earlier that he was committed to playing).
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:37 PM)VFRing98 link Wrote:[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
As does Christian. But Elliott played in both the Sugar Bowl and the College Playoff national championship game. In fact, he was MVP in both, and was going to be a top five pick no matter what. But he still played, to the delight and respect of his teammates, his coaching staff and his fans. Dallas picked him #4.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:37 PM)VFRing98 link Wrote:[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
As does Christian. But Elliott played in both the Sugar Bowl and the College Playoff national championship game. In fact, he was MVP in both, and was going to be a top five pick no matter what. But he still played, to the delight and respect of his teammates, his coaching staff and his fans. Dallas picked him #4.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - norcard - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:47 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=VFRing98 link=topic=16303.msg183084#msg183084 date=1482187059]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
As does Christian. But Elliott played in both the Sugar Bowl and the College Playoff national championship game. In fact, he was MVP in both, and was going to be a top five pick no matter what. But he still played, to the delight and respect of his teammates, his coaching staff and his fans. Dallas picked him #4.
[/quote]
He won a natty. We win something a kin to king of el paso.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - norcard - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:47 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=VFRing98 link=topic=16303.msg183084#msg183084 date=1482187059]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
As does Christian. But Elliott played in both the Sugar Bowl and the College Playoff national championship game. In fact, he was MVP in both, and was going to be a top five pick no matter what. But he still played, to the delight and respect of his teammates, his coaching staff and his fans. Dallas picked him #4.
[/quote]
He won a natty. We win something a kin to king of el paso.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:54 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16307.msg183057#msg183057 date=1482181885]
I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15. Okay, let's see that happen. CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.
So let's see what happens. His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27. Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
The most recent ESPN mock draft that I found actually had McCaffrey at #32.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/18266694/todd-mcshay-2017-nfl-mock-draft-10
The most recent Bleacher Report mock does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682592-2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-predictions-for-top-prospects-after-week-15
The most recent SB Nation mock also does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2016/12/19/14003322/2017-nfl-mock-draft-alabama-jonathan-allen-reuben-foster-mitch-trubisky
Pro Football Focus also does not have McCaffrey in the first round:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-jonathan-allen-myles-garrett-first-2017-mock-draft/
Sports Illustrated did a mock first round on their podcast and McCaffrey was not selected:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/02/clock-podcast-mocking-2017s-first-round.
There so many mocks posted (and updated) that I believe the ESPN, BR, SN and PFF mocks are the most recent without being 100% certain, not sure about SI, but recently I have seen McCaffrey described as projected for the second round in most articles and mock drafts.
In any case, if he rises/falls between now and the draft it will surely be due to his combine performance and interviews more than his bowl game decision.
[/quote]
On Dec. 6, SI has McCaffrey at #16:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/06/nfl-draft-2017-big-board-prospects-myles-garrett-jonathan-allen
Pro Football Focus listed McCaffrey as their Hiesman favorite. Quite a comedown:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-7-reasons-why-christian-mccaffrey-is-the-favorite-to-win-the-Voldemort-trophy/
Through 12 weeks, they still list McCaffrey as their #1 RB -- even though they have Cook and Fournette being drafted before him:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/why-christian-mccaffrey-is-our-no-1-college-running-back/
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:54 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16307.msg183057#msg183057 date=1482181885]
I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15. Okay, let's see that happen. CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.
So let's see what happens. His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27. Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
The most recent ESPN mock draft that I found actually had McCaffrey at #32.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/18266694/todd-mcshay-2017-nfl-mock-draft-10
The most recent Bleacher Report mock does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682592-2017-nfl-mock-draft-1st-round-predictions-for-top-prospects-after-week-15
The most recent SB Nation mock also does not have McCaffrey in the first round.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2016/12/19/14003322/2017-nfl-mock-draft-alabama-jonathan-allen-reuben-foster-mitch-trubisky
Pro Football Focus also does not have McCaffrey in the first round:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-jonathan-allen-myles-garrett-first-2017-mock-draft/
Sports Illustrated did a mock first round on their podcast and McCaffrey was not selected:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/02/clock-podcast-mocking-2017s-first-round.
There so many mocks posted (and updated) that I believe the ESPN, BR, SN and PFF mocks are the most recent without being 100% certain, not sure about SI, but recently I have seen McCaffrey described as projected for the second round in most articles and mock drafts.
In any case, if he rises/falls between now and the draft it will surely be due to his combine performance and interviews more than his bowl game decision.
[/quote]
On Dec. 6, SI has McCaffrey at #16:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/06/nfl-draft-2017-big-board-prospects-myles-garrett-jonathan-allen
Pro Football Focus listed McCaffrey as their Hiesman favorite. Quite a comedown:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-7-reasons-why-christian-mccaffrey-is-the-favorite-to-win-the-Voldemort-trophy/
Through 12 weeks, they still list McCaffrey as their #1 RB -- even though they have Cook and Fournette being drafted before him:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/why-christian-mccaffrey-is-our-no-1-college-running-back/
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 04:04 PM)norcard link Wrote:He won a natty. We win something a kin to king of el paso.Agree. I am in the camp of being disappointed that C-Mac is not playing in the bowl game, but is there anyone who thinks that he would be sitting out if Stanford qualified for the CFP and was scheduled to play Alabama in the semifinal?
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 04:04 PM)norcard link Wrote:He won a natty. We win something a kin to king of el paso.Agree. I am in the camp of being disappointed that C-Mac is not playing in the bowl game, but is there anyone who thinks that he would be sitting out if Stanford qualified for the CFP and was scheduled to play Alabama in the semifinal?
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - VFRing98 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:47 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=VFRing98 link=topic=16303.msg183084#msg183084 date=1482187059]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
As does Christian. But Elliott played in both the Sugar Bowl and the College Playoff national championship game. In fact, he was MVP in both, and was going to be a top five pick no matter what. But he still played, to the delight and respect of his teammates, his coaching staff and his fans. Dallas picked him #4.
[/quote]
Was he going to be a "top five pick no matter what" if he blew out his knee in the Sugar Bowl? Curious how you know that. The guy from ND, who was also going to be a "top five pick no matter what" played in his bowl exhibition, DID blow out his knee, and ended up...not a top five pick.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - VFRing98 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 03:47 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=VFRing98 link=topic=16303.msg183084#msg183084 date=1482187059]
[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16303.msg183069#msg183069 date=1482184172]
Ezekiel Elliottâ @EzekielElliott
All these young guys deciding to skip their bowl games ð¤.I would do anything to play one more time with my brothers in that scarlet and gray
9:01 AM · Dec 19, 2016
Elliott had a year of NCAA eligibility remaining when he entered the draft. ::)
[/quote]
As does Christian. But Elliott played in both the Sugar Bowl and the College Playoff national championship game. In fact, he was MVP in both, and was going to be a top five pick no matter what. But he still played, to the delight and respect of his teammates, his coaching staff and his fans. Dallas picked him #4.
[/quote]
Was he going to be a "top five pick no matter what" if he blew out his knee in the Sugar Bowl? Curious how you know that. The guy from ND, who was also going to be a "top five pick no matter what" played in his bowl exhibition, DID blow out his knee, and ended up...not a top five pick.