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RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 05:07 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: So what is y'all's take on Draymond Green punching Jordan Poole, and the implications thereof? How does the fact a video of it was released change your perception of the incident and the overall landscape of all things Warriors?
Marcus Thompson of TA says the video "changes everything" in this piece: https://theathletic.com/3668957/2022/10/07/draymond-green-video-thompson/
For me, everything about Draymond Green screams that he wants to be recognized as the BSD. And in a number of ways, he was the BSD. He's the center/PF-as-point-guard, and one of the best defenders in the league, with an absurdly high basketball IQ. People defer to him and respect him.
Here's my take on what I think was the Perfect Storm leading up to Draymond's punch:
1) When Draymond came into the NBA, he was a chubby, out-of-shape late second round pick from Michigan State. He had to work much harder, both athletically and academically to reach the heights that he's reached, and I suspect a part of him resents that (a) he's had to do it, and (b) that he hasn't been much recognized for it.
2) Draymond has never been the BSD (he knows that's reserved for Curry), but it also grates at him that for years Thompson was recognized as #2, and it particularly teed him off that Durant was seen as the co-#1 when he was here.
3) To that end, Draymond lost it -- publicly -- when he barked at Durant, much the same way as a certain kind of spouse will pick fights in public and in front of friends -- to show their power more than anything else.
4) Draymond cares little about appearances and politics -- but he cares passionately about power structures, which is why he felt he could dress down Steve Kerr semi-publicly. Which is when most of us started to sit up and take notice that Draymond was off-kilter.
5) Draymond's star is visibly dimming. His public pronouncements indicate that he doesn't necessarily believe it, that he'll fight against it, but facts are facts: he played in just 46 games last year, 63 the year before and 43 the year before. He wasn't in shape coming into the season last year, and he barely plays half the time.
6) For a "playmaker" his turnover rate has been increasing, now double what it was his rookie year in the NBA.
6) As bad as all that was...now the young guns are showing up. That's Moody, Wiseman, Kuminga...and Poole. And Poole's star is rising -- fast --as Green's is diminishing. And Green should realize that his time is limited, and his likelihood of one final Very Large Contract is getting smaller and smaller.
Final analysis? His day is done, he knows it, the young guns remind him of it directly or indirectly on an ongoing basis, and he's starting to lose control. He enjoyed an All Star year last season and an NBA championship, which he views as more his than any of the young guns, and it angers him that (a) he has to share it and (b) in his eyes, Poole is claiming credit for what he doesn't deserve.
RE: NBA Discussion - mutoo1 - 10-08-2022
(10-08-2022, 11:21 AM)Mick Wrote:(10-08-2022, 05:07 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: So what is y'all's take on Draymond Green punching Jordan Poole, and the implications thereof? How does the fact a video of it was released change your perception of the incident and the overall landscape of all things Warriors?
Marcus Thompson of TA says the video "changes everything" in this piece: https://theathletic.com/3668957/2022/10/07/draymond-green-video-thompson/
For me, everything about Draymond Green screams that he wants to be recognized as the BSD. And in a number of ways, he was the BSD. He's the center/PF-as-point-guard, and one of the best defenders in the league, with an absurdly high basketball IQ. People defer to him and respect him.
Here's my take on what I think was the Perfect Storm leading up to Draymond's punch:
1) When Draymond came into the NBA, he was a chubby, out-of-shape late second round pick from Michigan State. He had to work much harder, both athletically and academically to reach the heights that he's reached, and I suspect a part of him resents that (a) he's had to do it, and (b) that he hasn't been much recognized for it.
2) Draymond has never been the BSD (he knows that's reserved for Curry), but it also grates at him that for years Thompson was recognized as #2, and it particularly teed him off that Durant was seen as the co-#1 when he was here.
3) To that end, Draymond lost it -- publicly -- when he barked at Durant, much the same way as a certain kind of spouse will pick fights in public and in front of friends -- to show their power more than anything else.
4) Draymond cares little about appearances and politics -- but he cares passionately about power structures, which is why he felt he could dress down Steve Kerr semi-publicly. Which is when most of us started to sit up and take notice that Draymond was off-kilter.
5) Draymond's star is visibly dimming. His public pronouncements indicate that he doesn't necessarily believe it, that he'll fight against it, but facts are facts: he played in just 46 games last year, 63 the year before and 43 the year before. He wasn't in shape coming into the season last year, and he barely plays half the time.
6) For a "playmaker" his turnover rate has been increasing, now double what it was his rookie year in the NBA.
6) As bad as all that was...now the young guns are showing up. That's Moody, Wiseman, Kuminga...and Poole. And Poole's star is rising -- fast --as Green's is diminishing. And Green should realize that his time is limited, and his likelihood of one final Very Large Contract is getting smaller and smaller.
Final analysis? His day is done, he knows it, the young guns remind him of it directly or indirectly on an ongoing basis, and he's starting to lose control. He enjoyed an All Star year last season and an NBA championship, which he views as more his than any of the young guns, and it angers him that (a) he has to share it and (b) in his eyes, Poole is claiming credit for what he doesn't deserve.
what does "bsd" stand for?
i love the way draymond plays--most of the time--with his gifted basketball iq, passing & defense.
i hate the fact he hasn't practiced hard enough at becoming a better 3-point shooter, instead regressing after his fourth year (38.8%).
i love that he has been instrumental in four nba championships.
i hate that he lost one nba championship by his stupid on-court antics and lack of self-control.
i hate how he handled his issues with durant.
i hate that he is petty and loses control with his teammates.
i hate how he touts himself.
all in all, if i thought the warriors could win a championship without him by substituting one or two others in his place, i'd be all for dumping him like a bad habit. which the warriors should do rather than give him a max contract in another year or two. but they can't so easily replace what he brings to the court so they (and we, the fans) tolerate his antics.
the warriors do need to tell draymond that if he ever puts his hands on a teammate again, he will be suspended indefinitely without pay for conduct detrimental to the team. if his contract could be voided for such detrimental conduct, they should do so and cut him loose.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 10-09-2022
Have people ever had a wider variety of takes on a punch and the implications of how it was revealed publicly?
Rather than look at it chronologically, reverse-chronologically might be more instructive. On Saturday Draymond made his first public comments on the matter, and not surprisingly, he said all the right things. At this point, the person who will be most important to hear from is of course, Jordan Poole.
To me, the most impressive thing Draymond said was that he made his first comments in front of the media, not on his podcast where he controls everything, so he would show he isn't ducking anything and taking full responsibility for his actions. Importantly, he said he loves Jordan Poole, and that he's always had his back, even has his locker next to his. Draymond never suggested anyone but him has any responsibility for the punch he threw. He didn't even say "Jordan said" to try to offer some sort of justification for doing it. Draymond also made clear it's totally up to Jordan Poole if he wants any further relationship with him moving forward, recognizing the gravity of what he did.
My guess is Poole will be forgiving of Draymond, and recognize the punch was more about Draymond losing his cool due to his own personal issues than any animus toward himself, taking into account how much Draymond has helped him in his career to this point. The incident will galvanize the team and nobody talks about it anymore after the season starts, unless the team starts the season poorly.
If the W's start slow, everyone will be claiming they have team chemistry issues due to the punch, but I don't expect it will truly impact the team in any truly detrimental way.
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 10-09-2022
Contracts weigh into this as both guys are due and the Warriors are cap bound. They probably played a part in the tension between the two men.
Hypothetical raised by the guys at the Athletic: Suppose Poole says “I’m not happy but I’ll play with him this year … but not next”.
No matter how you paint this Green lost a lot of leverage. The ball is in Poole’s court and he has said very little. His personality is similar to KDs in some ways and that’s ominous for the Dubs.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 10-09-2022
I think Draymond is gone after this year. He'll be 33. He's fleshy and out of shape, as he was coming into the season last year. He never practiced his three point shooting (which declined five years in a row, hitting 27% in 2020/1 and increasing to 29.6% last year) and he only made 65.9% of his free throws last year, worst of his career. Somehow, he made the all star team after playing 46 games in an 82 game season.
On a per-minute basis, his turnover rate last year was the worst of his career, his assists declined by about 15% from the prior year, though his rebounding average is up by 10%. His personal foul rate has increased three of the last four years, and it is the highest since his thrid year in the league.
The Warriors have massive, MASSIVE luxury tax issues. Right now, they are $170 million over the cap, per Spotrac. Draymond is under contract this year and next year. He's old, he's a disturbance, Looney is cheaper, Wiseman is cheaper, Kuminga is cheaper and they'll all be two years older when Draymond's contract runs out. Getting rid of Draymond is looking very attractive, more so than getting rid of Wiggins. I used to think that getting rid of Klay would be the real answer, but he picked up in the back half of last season and in the playoffs.
RE: NBA Discussion - BostonCard - 10-09-2022
Here are fivethirtyeight’s CARMELO ratings and projections for Green:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2023-nba-player-projections/draymond-green/
He projects to be worth about 5.1 wins above a replacement player, dropping over the next few years.
BC
RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 10-15-2022
The Warriors just spent $249 million to keep Poole and Wiggins for the next four years. I was surprised by the size of Poole’s deal, and I have to think this means there won’t be room for Green. I would predict a trade before the deadline, but I think Green has a trade kicker worth like $5 million and the team may want one more shot with the gang together anyway.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 10-15-2022
(10-15-2022, 06:51 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: The Warriors just spent $249 million to keep Poole and Wiggins for the next four years. I was surprised by the size of Poole’s deal, and I have to think this means there won’t be room for Green. I would predict a trade before the deadline, but I think Green has a trade kicker worth like $5 million and the team may want one more shot with the gang together anyway.
I was surprised by Poole's deal on the upside and Wiggins' deal on the downside. I don't think there's room for Green, and now he has given the Warriors excuse to refrain from an extension. I don't think Green's back next season, maybe with the Lakers as one pundit suggests.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 10-16-2022
The only way Green opts out of his deal after this season is if another team is ready to pay him say $60M for 3 years. But if the Warriors repeat, Green might bring in enough revenue for the Warriors to extend him for a similar figure.
Or, he himself might be motivated to "3peat" and opt-in to his least year for the chance to do it.
So many folks want Green paying some kind of price for the Poole punch, that I think they are letting it cloud their judgement about his Warriors future a bit too much. Does anyone think Jordan Poole will be anything but magnanimous after securing his $140M extension? IOW, I think the Poole punch is really much more of a tempest in a teapot than most commentators want to believe, and it really had the middle of a donut to do with Draymond's future with the Warriors.
At the end of the day, if Joe Lacob feels Draymond is a critical piece to winning a championship, he will be a Warrior.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 10-16-2022
(10-16-2022, 07:45 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The only way Green opts out of his deal after this season is if another team is ready to pay him say $60M for 3 years. But if the Warriors repeat, Green might bring in enough revenue for the Warriors to extend him for a similar figure.
Or, he himself might be motivated to "3peat" and opt-in to his least year for the chance to do it.
So many folks want Green paying some kind of price for the Poole punch, that I think they are letting it cloud their judgement about his Warriors future a bit too much. Does anyone think Jordan Poole will be anything but magnanimous after securing his $140M extension? IOW, I think the Poole punch is really much more of a tempest in a teapot than most commentators want to believe, and it really had the middle of a donut to do with Draymond's future with the Warriors.
At the end of the day, if Joe Lacob feels Draymond is a critical piece to winning a championship, he will be a Warrior.
Couple of thoughts:
1) Draymond Green will be 33 this season, and 34 next season while he's under contract. He's reportedly in great shape, since this is both virtually a contract year for him and maybe the last chance that the Warriors have to win a championship with the old gang. If he were to get another 4 year contract, it would cover age ranges from 35-38 for a short but heavy (6'6" and 230 lbs) power forward who doesn't shoot well and has played just 46 games last year, 63 the year before that, 43 the year before that and 66 the year before that. He played a ton of games his first four seasons and has been declining the six seasons subsequent to those first four.
2) Statistically, his 36-minute averages are suffering. His turnover rate last year was the highest of his career and more than double his rookie year turnover rate. He had the worst FT percentage of his career and his assist rate dropped by about 13% from the prior year. His FG percentage did improve to 52.5%, but was 44.7% the prior year and 38.9% the year before that. His increase is partly due to the fact that his 3 pt. % is just 29.6%, so his # of 3s attempted has dropped four of the past five years. Last year, he played just 1,329 minutes, a brobdingnagian drop from the prior year and a bigger drop from his career average. And most of those numbers dropped even more in the playoffs compared with the regular season (better competition, I know). Career playoff lows in points, rebounds, 3 pt percentage, and blocks; 2nd worst in 3 pt attempts and steals. Took a nice big jump in personal fouls, though.
3) He's always had "personality", from the time he publicly chewed out Steve Kerr. I suspect he has a jealous streak, which underlay his rant against Kevin Durant a few years back, and he has a bit of a self-destructive streak. He admitted costing the Warriors the 2016 championship. And I don't know about everyone else, but I'm sick and tired of Warriors management, including Myers and Kerr, saying the fundamental equivalent of "that's Draymond, you take the bad with the good." It's bad enough when the Warriors are winning.
4) He's a key piece to the offense, but an even more key piece to the defense. I think that value is in decline as well.
5) I think his value goes way down on another team because he's so intertwined with the Warriors approach.
Steph and Klay will always defend him, but if Draymond were smart, he'd exercise his player option in 2023/4. Because even if he's healthy, I doubt he'd get $60 mms./3 years.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 10-17-2022
This is an exceptionally well done story on the two-timeline Warriors.
https://theathletic.com/3661519/2022/10/17/golden-state-warriors-title-defense/?source=twitterhq
Anthony Slater should get an award for this.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 10-17-2022
(10-17-2022, 10:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: This is an exceptionally well done story on the two-timeline Warriors.
https://theathletic.com/3661519/2022/10/17/golden-state-warriors-title-defense/?source=twitterhq
Anthony Slater should get an award for this.
I don’t have a way to post but in the Sunday Chronicle Scott Ostler wrote a terrific article on Steve Keri’s first training camp. Google it (or if someone more tech savvy than I (not a high bar!) can post it, please do..
(10-16-2022, 07:45 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The only way Green opts out of his deal after this season is if another team is ready to pay him say $60M for 3 years. But if the Warriors repeat, Green might bring in enough revenue for the Warriors to extend him for a similar figure.
Or, he himself might be motivated to "3peat" and opt-in to his least year for the chance to do it.
So many folks want Green paying some kind of price for the Poole punch, that I think they are letting it cloud their judgement about his Warriors future a bit too much. Does anyone think Jordan Poole will be anything but magnanimous after securing his $140M extension? IOW, I think the Poole punch is really much more of a tempest in a teapot than most commentators want to believe, and it really had the middle of a donut to do with Draymond's future with the Warriors.
At the end of the day, if Joe Lacob feels Draymond is a critical piece to winning a championship, he will be a Warrior.
Kerr called this the Warriors biggest crisis since he’s been HC. So, it’s certainly not a “tempest in a teapot”. We saw the punch. What we don’t know is the full backstory. I doubt this was a “one-time” event. I suspect there was a lot of stuff leading up to it. I’m not so sure that Poole is going to be magnanimous about it.
I’d be stunned if the Warriors repeat. Their Championship last year was a nice surprise. But one more year of wear and tear on Curry, Klay and Draymond…
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 10-17-2022
(10-16-2022, 09:54 AM)Mick Wrote:(10-16-2022, 07:45 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The only way Green opts out of his deal after this season is if another team is ready to pay him say $60M for 3 years. But if the Warriors repeat, Green might bring in enough revenue for the Warriors to extend him for a similar figure.
Or, he himself might be motivated to "3peat" and opt-in to his least year for the chance to do it.
So many folks want Green paying some kind of price for the Poole punch, that I think they are letting it cloud their judgement about his Warriors future a bit too much. Does anyone think Jordan Poole will be anything but magnanimous after securing his $140M extension? IOW, I think the Poole punch is really much more of a tempest in a teapot than most commentators want to believe, and it really had the middle of a donut to do with Draymond's future with the Warriors.
At the end of the day, if Joe Lacob feels Draymond is a critical piece to winning a championship, he will be a Warrior.
Couple of thoughts:
1) Draymond Green will be 33 this season, and 34 next season while he's under contract. He's reportedly in great shape, since this is both virtually a contract year for him and maybe the last chance that the Warriors have to win a championship with the old gang. If he were to get another 4 year contract, it would cover age ranges from 35-38 for a short but heavy (6'6" and 230 lbs) power forward who doesn't shoot well and has played just 46 games last year, 63 the year before that, 43 the year before that and 66 the year before that. He played a ton of games his first four seasons and has been declining the six seasons subsequent to those first four.
2) Statistically, his 36-minute averages are suffering. His turnover rate last year was the highest of his career and more than double his rookie year turnover rate. He had the worst FT percentage of his career and his assist rate dropped by about 13% from the prior year. His FG percentage did improve to 52.5%, but was 44.7% the prior year and 38.9% the year before that. His increase is partly due to the fact that his 3 pt. % is just 29.6%, so his # of 3s attempted has dropped four of the past five years. Last year, he played just 1,329 minutes, a of immense proportions drop from the prior year and a bigger drop from his career average. And most of those numbers dropped even more in the playoffs compared with the regular season (better competition, I know). Career playoff lows in points, rebounds, 3 pt percentage, and blocks; 2nd worst in 3 pt attempts and steals. Took a nice big jump in personal fouls, though.
3) He's always had "personality", from the time he publicly chewed out Steve Kerr. I suspect he has a jealous streak, which underlay his rant against Kevin Durant a few years back, and he has a bit of a self-destructive streak. He admitted costing the Warriors the 2016 championship. And I don't know about everyone else, but I'm sick and tired of Warriors management, including Myers and Kerr, saying the fundamental equivalent of "that's Draymond, you take the bad with the good." It's bad enough when the Warriors are winning.
4) He's a key piece to the offense, but an even more key piece to the defense. I think that value is in decline as well.
5) I think his value goes way down on another team because he's so intertwined with the Warriors approach.
Steph and Klay will always defend him, but if Draymond were smart, he'd exercise his player option in 2023/4. Because even if he's healthy, I doubt he'd get $60 mms./3 years.
His value to the Warriors goes way beyond what his statistics tell us. The Warriors are significantly better when he’s on the floor. But he’s getting older. And I’m not sure if his value carries over to another team. So much of what he does on the offensive end centers on his relationship with Curry. And Steph is unique. There aren’t many players I can think of over the years that are brilliant offensively both with and off ball. He’s like Pistol with the ball, Havlicek away from the ball. Draymond maximizes Curry’s off ball effectiveness.
As for the other stuff, the Warriors put up with it because they win. If they have a down year, all bets are off. And I think it’s highly possible. As a famous Mick said - “time waits for no one”
RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 10-17-2022
I could see the Warriors season going any different number of ways. The top tier of teams this year is really big. A lot of teams mortgaging their futures to land “the missing piece.” On the one hand, I see danger even in the first round if the Warriors get a team like the Wolves and the matchups work out poorly. On the other hand, I could see the Warriors being better this year than last. Draymond in a contract year fighting to prove he’s worth 3 yrs/$60MM. Kuminga and Moody growing up. Klay now almost 2 years out from his Achilles injury. Wiseman could even take a leap if he can finally stay healthy. Who knows?
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 10-17-2022
Jordan Poole was the calm, cool guy he's always been when he met with the media on Sunday. He said the 14 days after they returned from Japan were stressful, but he pointed to his contract negotiation and the Oct. 17 deadline for extension to avoid restricted free agency as the stressor.
I think if you asked Steve Kerr what was more crisis, the punch or the leak, he would say "by far the leak." Remember, not only was there a leak of the video footage, there was also a leak that Draymond Green punched Jordan Poole in practice before the video was released. Had the leaker not leaked, nobody would have known anything about it. That means had it not leaked, there would have been no real crisis.
It's amusing watching the media members try to couch their veiled questions about the punch in a way that suggests the players are so fragile that it will be impossible to ever be the same again. It's pretty clear from how the players respond that they don't think it is nearly as big of a deal as the media and fans do. I doubt Steve Kerr does either.
RE: NBA Discussion - French Rage - 10-17-2022
Is Draymond getting older? Yes. Will his effectiveness wane over time? Yes. Will that possibly affect if he stays with the Warriors and what future deals he can get? Yes.
Is any of that related to the Poole punch? No. But writers need a story. This happened with Jordan and Kerr and the Bulls went on the win a championship. And the Warriors are just coming out of one that Green contributed to. Draymond giveth and Draymond taketh, the Warriors know who he is and he'll do these things from time to time, and they're more than happy to live with it as it has gotten them 4 titles and within spitting distance of 2 more.
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 10-17-2022
Draymond's punch was a big deal - How big depends a lot on how the season goes from here.
So far the happy-path scenario is playing out. Poole signed his extension, the Dub administration has stayed transparent, Draymond apologized in a genuine and self-aware press conference, and Poole has not fanned the flames. With the season getting underway there is hope the Warriors can get off to a fast start. Winning is a great deoderant and I happen to think the Warriors are going to do a lot of that out the gate.
If you want to take the other side you might point to the following:
1) This punch didn't come from nowhere. Clearly Green and Poole aren't singing Kumbaya together and their beef points to ill will between the old guard and the rising stars. Not surprising when contracts, playing time, and media attention are all pulling at that same seam.
2) Yes, dust-ups happen all the time in the NBA but this one was different. It wasn't just two players jawing off publicaly with the altercation preceded by squaring up, taking a couple swings, and pushing while their teammates pull them apart. Draymond flew across the room and went for the head with a hay-maker. Not normal.
3) The video leak amplifies everything - there's now dramatic images out there that everyone has seen, including family, friends, hangers-on, and alumni at Michigan and Michigan St basketball. The pressure on Poole to respond and react must be immense in the macho world of professional sports. So far Poole has played this well but let's see what happens next time tempers flare, perhaps during a losing streak when Draymond thinks Kevin Dur ... uh Poole ... should have passed the ball.
As I said earlier so far everyone is playing this well but I find the last few days of with talking-heads saying t"here's nothing to see here" to be misleading. It is worth noting that the last time a dust-up like this went public the Warriors lost a perennial all-star and presumed member of the NBA's All-Time top 10. To say there's no risk this time is to ignore that it could still go both ways.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2021/08/18/kevin-durant-draymond-green-blame-warriors-front-office-fallout-fight/8180691002/
RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 10-17-2022
The Warriors wouldn’t and shouldn’t trade Green right now, but I have idle curiosity about whether they could make a reclamation project out of Ben Simmons. If they could repeat the results they achieved with Wiggins, it’d be quite notable!
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 10-18-2022
(10-17-2022, 11:04 AM)lex24 Wrote: Kerr called this the Warriors biggest crisis since he’s been HC. So, it’s certainly not a “tempest in a teapot”. We saw the punch. What we don’t know is the full backstory. I doubt this was a “one-time” event. I suspect there was a lot of stuff leading up to it. I’m not so sure that Poole is going to be magnanimous about it.
I’d be stunned if the Warriors repeat. Their Championship last year was a nice surprise. But one more year of wear and tear on Curry, Klay and Draymond…
Agreed. Steven Jackson, one of the more miserable NBA players (he went into the stands to fight fans in Detroit with Ron Artest) was asked if he ever punched a teammate and he replied in the negative. If that guy thinks punching teammates is bad...it's pretty darned bad. Of course, Jordan punched Steve Kerr in practice, but that was in the Stone Age when we were all young... Kerr said he'd seen probably 20 fights in his 32 years in the NBA. My guess is that they were largely in his first decade.
Based on his perceptive decline, I think Draymond is done as a player. Let him go back to his hometown of Detroit (East Lansing -- pretty close) or to hang with LeBron in Los Angeles. I wouldn't extend Klay, either.
(10-17-2022, 04:51 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: Draymond's punch was a big deal - How big depends a lot on how the season goes from here.
So far the happy-path scenario is playing out. Poole signed his extension, the Dub administration has stayed transparent, Draymond apologized in a genuine and self-aware press conference, and Poole has not fanned the flames. With the season getting underway there is hope the Warriors can get off to a fast start. Winning is a great deoderant and I happen to think the Warriors are going to do a lot of that out the gate.
If you want to take the other side you might point to the following:
1) This punch didn't come from nowhere. Clearly Green and Poole aren't singing Kumbaya together and their beef points to ill will between the old guard and the rising stars. Not surprising when contracts, playing time, and media attention are all pulling at that same seam.
2) Yes, dust-ups happen all the time in the NBA but this one was different. It wasn't just two players jawing off publicaly with the altercation preceded by squaring up, taking a couple swings, and pushing while their teammates pull them apart. Draymond flew across the room and went for the head with a hay-maker. Not normal.
3) The video leak amplifies everything - there's now dramatic images out there that everyone has seen, including family, friends, hangers-on, and alumni at Michigan and Michigan St basketball. The pressure on Poole to respond and react must be immense in the macho world of professional sports. So far Poole has played this well but let's see what happens next time tempers flare, perhaps during a losing streak when Draymond thinks Kevin Dur ... uh Poole ... should have passed the ball.
As I said earlier so far everyone is playing this well but I find the last few days of with talking-heads saying t"here's nothing to see here" to be misleading. It is worth noting that the last time a dust-up like this went public the Warriors lost a perennial all-star and presumed member of the NBA's All-Time top 10. To say there's no risk this time is to ignore that it could still go both ways.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2021/08/18/kevin-durant-draymond-green-blame-warriors-front-office-fallout-fight/8180691002/
Supposedly, Poole was taunting Draymond that Poole would get paid and Green would not...which, in all likelihood, is going to happen. And Green knows it. Hit a little bit close to home.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 10-18-2022
Since tonight kicks off the start of the NBA season, who y'all got? Don't know if I've ever seen so many teams with so many good players.
West: Warriors, Clippers, Nuggets, Grizzlies, Mavericks, Suns, Pelicans, Lakers are all proven to some degree.
East: Celtics, Nets, Bucks, Heat, Sixers, Raptors, Hawks, Cavs are all proven to some degree.
I honestly don't know who to take there are so many good teams. I guess the question easiest to answer is if you'd take the W's or the field? Then again, most people would pick the field just because of the numbers, and most who chose the W's would be biased homers.
To me the most intriguing team is the Cavs. Two small All-Star level Guards (Garland and Mitchell) paired with a couple bigs and a wing forward. Kind of a little bit like Blazers had with Lillard and McCollum, but a bigger front court.
I'm curious to see how far the Suns fall from the #1 seed, which for some reason I don't think they will be contending for this year.