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Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - SUBuddha - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:15 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16303.msg183184#msg183184 date=1482246235]
Team means a lot to me. However, I just don't get this from the fans. If the players feel like he quit on them that is different.

We are fans, he owes us nothing. We have no claim on his life, judge him how you will, but I have increased respect for him after this. I respect honesty above all else, perhaps why I am a not the first person asked to give performance reviews to my staff. He was honest with his team and with his fans. That I respect.

I played lacrosse and rugby at LSJU. I was out of money for school entering senior year. I took 25 units fall and winter quarter just to get out without having to borrow more money. This means I could not play spring quarter. Granted I was not a star, and not even a starter in rugby.

So does that mean I quit on my teams by doing what was best for me, or does this only apply to our star athletes?

No disrespect, but no one paid to watch you play, and you didn't receive a scholarship.  So your quitting is completely understandable.  I quit too, under the exact same circumstances.
[/quote]

Mick- That is exactly my point. It is OK for me to quit simply because no one paid to see me play. How does the fact that we pay to see him play change the situation. For that matter how is this different from the 1 and dones in Basketball?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - SUBuddha - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:15 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16303.msg183184#msg183184 date=1482246235]
Team means a lot to me. However, I just don't get this from the fans. If the players feel like he quit on them that is different.

We are fans, he owes us nothing. We have no claim on his life, judge him how you will, but I have increased respect for him after this. I respect honesty above all else, perhaps why I am a not the first person asked to give performance reviews to my staff. He was honest with his team and with his fans. That I respect.

I played lacrosse and rugby at LSJU. I was out of money for school entering senior year. I took 25 units fall and winter quarter just to get out without having to borrow more money. This means I could not play spring quarter. Granted I was not a star, and not even a starter in rugby.

So does that mean I quit on my teams by doing what was best for me, or does this only apply to our star athletes?

No disrespect, but no one paid to watch you play, and you didn't receive a scholarship.  So your quitting is completely understandable.  I quit too, under the exact same circumstances.
[/quote]

Mick- That is exactly my point. It is OK for me to quit simply because no one paid to see me play. How does the fact that we pay to see him play change the situation. For that matter how is this different from the 1 and dones in Basketball?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - oman - 12-20-2016

Totally fine with CM not playing.  Would like to get ready for next year.

The playoff scenario now created, and Stanford being in the mix, means I would be happier if all outgoing players gave way to giving other players more snaps.  Let the graduates make the trip, but let the younger guys play. 

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - oman - 12-20-2016

Totally fine with CM not playing.  Would like to get ready for next year.

The playoff scenario now created, and Stanford being in the mix, means I would be happier if all outgoing players gave way to giving other players more snaps.  Let the graduates make the trip, but let the younger guys play. 

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

For those trying to connect quitting before the bowl game with foregoing a year of eligibility: I look at it from my personal experience. If my kids ask to sign up for a sport, they've commited to going to all practices adn games in which they're healthy. Their coaches and teammates rely on them for that season. They took a spot on the team someone else otherwise would have had. If they choose to quick once the season is over an not play the next season, that's fine. But it's important to follow through.

Of course we're only hearing supportive statements from teammates. If there are any dissatisfied teammates, they're not going to air it publicly. They'll keep their heads down. But I think the statement of Plunkett and Nelson are pretty telling of what some of the silent teammates may be thinking. We're all just fans, but they speak from direct experience.

I don't harbor ill will against CMAC. Just disappointment. Both in him and in the overall system and the direction it's going to take. How long before top high school players forego their senior seasons to avoid risk of injury? Or stop playing once they've signed? I think something is lost from sport/life when everyone is just making decisions to maximize their own personal financial outcome. Certain values are communicated to the fan base, kids who follow CMAC closely are watching this and thinking "I guess I should just make sure I get mine." Again, I'm not angry at CMAC, but definitely disappointed and I will probably care a little bit less about his long term career.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

For those trying to connect quitting before the bowl game with foregoing a year of eligibility: I look at it from my personal experience. If my kids ask to sign up for a sport, they've commited to going to all practices adn games in which they're healthy. Their coaches and teammates rely on them for that season. They took a spot on the team someone else otherwise would have had. If they choose to quick once the season is over an not play the next season, that's fine. But it's important to follow through.

Of course we're only hearing supportive statements from teammates. If there are any dissatisfied teammates, they're not going to air it publicly. They'll keep their heads down. But I think the statement of Plunkett and Nelson are pretty telling of what some of the silent teammates may be thinking. We're all just fans, but they speak from direct experience.

I don't harbor ill will against CMAC. Just disappointment. Both in him and in the overall system and the direction it's going to take. How long before top high school players forego their senior seasons to avoid risk of injury? Or stop playing once they've signed? I think something is lost from sport/life when everyone is just making decisions to maximize their own personal financial outcome. Certain values are communicated to the fan base, kids who follow CMAC closely are watching this and thinking "I guess I should just make sure I get mine." Again, I'm not angry at CMAC, but definitely disappointed and I will probably care a little bit less about his long term career.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - JohnR34231 - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:22 AM)oman link Wrote:Totally fine with CM not playing.  Would like to get ready for next year.

The playoff scenario now created, and Stanford being in the mix, means I would be happier if all outgoing players gave way to giving other players more snaps.  Let the graduates make the trip, but let the younger guys play.

Yeah, that's the silver lining in the cloud. Next year's backfield corps will get plenty of touches.





Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - JohnR34231 - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:22 AM)oman link Wrote:Totally fine with CM not playing.  Would like to get ready for next year.

The playoff scenario now created, and Stanford being in the mix, means I would be happier if all outgoing players gave way to giving other players more snaps.  Let the graduates make the trip, but let the younger guys play.

Yeah, that's the silver lining in the cloud. Next year's backfield corps will get plenty of touches.





Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - thunder_chik - 12-20-2016

I like the idea about allowing freshman/redshirts to play in a bowl game without losing eligibility.  It would make the games more interesting for fans, especially if the "stars" decide to forego the final games of the season.  Has the NCAA ever considered this?  Should we put a bee in their bonnet?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - thunder_chik - 12-20-2016

I like the idea about allowing freshman/redshirts to play in a bowl game without losing eligibility.  It would make the games more interesting for fans, especially if the "stars" decide to forego the final games of the season.  Has the NCAA ever considered this?  Should we put a bee in their bonnet?

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

I would love to hear NFL players, coaches and GM views on this. I don't think skipping the bowl does anything to change the view of his talent/ability. The tape is there for all to see and the combine will display the measurables regardless. But are members of the NFL brotherhood cynical enough to all just view this as a business decision and all football play as a business decision, or do some of the GM's and coaches hold idealized view of teamwork and commitment that will make this decision show a flaw in CMAC's character.

I'm inclined to think that most just view it as a business and won't hold anything against CMAC for this decision, but on the margins, some will probably see this as a character flaw. If one of those is in a position to draft CMAC and takes a pass, it could hurt his draft position on the margins, but I doubt significantly. And what's the financial impact of dropping a handful of spots in the draft? If you're borderline end of first round/beginning of second, if you drop 5 spots, does that significantly hurt your earnings?

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

I would love to hear NFL players, coaches and GM views on this. I don't think skipping the bowl does anything to change the view of his talent/ability. The tape is there for all to see and the combine will display the measurables regardless. But are members of the NFL brotherhood cynical enough to all just view this as a business decision and all football play as a business decision, or do some of the GM's and coaches hold idealized view of teamwork and commitment that will make this decision show a flaw in CMAC's character.

I'm inclined to think that most just view it as a business and won't hold anything against CMAC for this decision, but on the margins, some will probably see this as a character flaw. If one of those is in a position to draft CMAC and takes a pass, it could hurt his draft position on the margins, but I doubt significantly. And what's the financial impact of dropping a handful of spots in the draft? If you're borderline end of first round/beginning of second, if you drop 5 spots, does that significantly hurt your earnings?

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - martyup - 12-20-2016

This feels like someone stole the cranberry sauce at Christmas dinner.  :-[  I understand his decision.  He's smart and rational.  Good luck CMAC.  Thanks for the memories.

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - martyup - 12-20-2016

This feels like someone stole the cranberry sauce at Christmas dinner.  :-[  I understand his decision.  He's smart and rational.  Good luck CMAC.  Thanks for the memories.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:17 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16303.msg183186#msg183186 date=1482246909]
[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16303.msg183184#msg183184 date=1482246235]
Team means a lot to me. However, I just don't get this from the fans. If the players feel like he quit on them that is different.

We are fans, he owes us nothing. We have no claim on his life, judge him how you will, but I have increased respect for him after this. I respect honesty above all else, perhaps why I am a not the first person asked to give performance reviews to my staff. He was honest with his team and with his fans. That I respect.

I played lacrosse and rugby at LSJU. I was out of money for school entering senior year. I took 25 units fall and winter quarter just to get out without having to borrow more money. This means I could not play spring quarter. Granted I was not a star, and not even a starter in rugby.

So does that mean I quit on my teams by doing what was best for me, or does this only apply to our star athletes?

No disrespect, but no one paid to watch you play, and you didn't receive a scholarship.  So your quitting is completely understandable.  I quit too, under the exact same circumstances.
[/quote]

Mick- That is exactly my point. It is OK for me to quit simply because no one paid to see me play. How does the fact that we pay to see him play change the situation. For that matter how is this different from the 1 and dones in Basketball?
[/quote]

Buddha, yes, it is OK for you to quit simply because no one paid to see you pay.  You didn't play lacrosse or rugby for a living, no one paid to see you.  Everyone understands that the commitment is far more tenuous than someone who is preparing for a career and .  Honestly, I don't really understand the phrase "How does the fact that we pay to see him play change the situation."  Because he is paid to play, because without football he's not at Stanford, because he'll play after he leaves, because mass investments have been made into his coaching, his equipment, etc. 

BTW, you're right, there's no real difference from CMAC's situation and the 1 and dones.  Those suck.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:17 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16303.msg183186#msg183186 date=1482246909]
[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16303.msg183184#msg183184 date=1482246235]
Team means a lot to me. However, I just don't get this from the fans. If the players feel like he quit on them that is different.

We are fans, he owes us nothing. We have no claim on his life, judge him how you will, but I have increased respect for him after this. I respect honesty above all else, perhaps why I am a not the first person asked to give performance reviews to my staff. He was honest with his team and with his fans. That I respect.

I played lacrosse and rugby at LSJU. I was out of money for school entering senior year. I took 25 units fall and winter quarter just to get out without having to borrow more money. This means I could not play spring quarter. Granted I was not a star, and not even a starter in rugby.

So does that mean I quit on my teams by doing what was best for me, or does this only apply to our star athletes?

No disrespect, but no one paid to watch you play, and you didn't receive a scholarship.  So your quitting is completely understandable.  I quit too, under the exact same circumstances.
[/quote]

Mick- That is exactly my point. It is OK for me to quit simply because no one paid to see me play. How does the fact that we pay to see him play change the situation. For that matter how is this different from the 1 and dones in Basketball?
[/quote]

Buddha, yes, it is OK for you to quit simply because no one paid to see you pay.  You didn't play lacrosse or rugby for a living, no one paid to see you.  Everyone understands that the commitment is far more tenuous than someone who is preparing for a career and .  Honestly, I don't really understand the phrase "How does the fact that we pay to see him play change the situation."  Because he is paid to play, because without football he's not at Stanford, because he'll play after he leaves, because mass investments have been made into his coaching, his equipment, etc. 

BTW, you're right, there's no real difference from CMAC's situation and the 1 and dones.  Those suck.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - oman - 12-20-2016

I am certain that the vast majority of college bound soccer players in north Texas, which is a good source of these players, no longer play for their high schools because of the potential for injury.  Their club loyalty goes only so far as their club can get them into a good college.

The idea that the vast majority of high school athletes are subscribing to some idealistic team first mentality is an utter myth. 

These athletes generally put team as a high priority and generally make good decisions, but the world isn't as black and white as some of you want to pretend it is.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - oman - 12-20-2016

I am certain that the vast majority of college bound soccer players in north Texas, which is a good source of these players, no longer play for their high schools because of the potential for injury.  Their club loyalty goes only so far as their club can get them into a good college.

The idea that the vast majority of high school athletes are subscribing to some idealistic team first mentality is an utter myth. 

These athletes generally put team as a high priority and generally make good decisions, but the world isn't as black and white as some of you want to pretend it is.

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 07:39 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:[quote author=winflop link=topic=16307.msg183175#msg183175 date=1482238648]
[quote author=Papa John link=topic=16307.msg183100#msg183100 date=1482193153]
Like others have said, there may be mitigating circumstances. What if, between December 7 and this morning, CMac felt a tweak or twinge that was an aftereffect of his midseason injury? Since we don't have all of the facts--and probably never will--I suppose that we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

If and when there is such information I may think differently.  But he has stated that he is leaving his team before the end of the season to focus on the draft.  You are making assumptions and attempting to rationalize with zero basis in fact.  I take him at his word, I'm disappointed in him, and I criticize him for making a poor decision.
[/quote]

As anyone who follows you on twitter has seen you do consistently since it was announced.

I personally respect the kid for this. He is not quitting on his team, they have been universally supportive of him on social media. It was fun to watch him for three years, take what you got from it and remember you have not walked in his shoes.
[/quote]


You seem to be using the fact that a few Stanford players have issued public positive tweets as support for your position.  Can you conceive of a situation in which a Stanford player actually felt disappointment in their captain walking out on them and decided to ignite a sxxtstorm by tweeting their true feelings?  I can't.  Why?  Because by and large, they're team players.  All of them except one, anyway.

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 07:39 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:[quote author=winflop link=topic=16307.msg183175#msg183175 date=1482238648]
[quote author=Papa John link=topic=16307.msg183100#msg183100 date=1482193153]
Like others have said, there may be mitigating circumstances. What if, between December 7 and this morning, CMac felt a tweak or twinge that was an aftereffect of his midseason injury? Since we don't have all of the facts--and probably never will--I suppose that we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

If and when there is such information I may think differently.  But he has stated that he is leaving his team before the end of the season to focus on the draft.  You are making assumptions and attempting to rationalize with zero basis in fact.  I take him at his word, I'm disappointed in him, and I criticize him for making a poor decision.
[/quote]

As anyone who follows you on twitter has seen you do consistently since it was announced.

I personally respect the kid for this. He is not quitting on his team, they have been universally supportive of him on social media. It was fun to watch him for three years, take what you got from it and remember you have not walked in his shoes.
[/quote]


You seem to be using the fact that a few Stanford players have issued public positive tweets as support for your position.  Can you conceive of a situation in which a Stanford player actually felt disappointment in their captain walking out on them and decided to ignite a sxxtstorm by tweeting their true feelings?  I can't.  Why?  Because by and large, they're team players.  All of them except one, anyway.