CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Printable Version
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Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - SUBuddha - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 09:09 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16307.msg183182#msg183182 date=1482244764]
[quote author=winflop link=topic=16307.msg183175#msg183175 date=1482238648]
[quote author=Papa John link=topic=16307.msg183100#msg183100 date=1482193153]
Like others have said, there may be mitigating circumstances. What if, between December 7 and this morning, CMac felt a tweak or twinge that was an aftereffect of his midseason injury? Since we don't have all of the facts--and probably never will--I suppose that we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
If and when there is such information I may think differently. But he has stated that he is leaving his team before the end of the season to focus on the draft. You are making assumptions and attempting to rationalize with zero basis in fact. I take him at his word, I'm disappointed in him, and I criticize him for making a poor decision.
[/quote]
As anyone who follows you on twitter has seen you do consistently since it was announced.
I personally respect the kid for this. He is not quitting on his team, they have been universally supportive of him on social media. It was fun to watch him for three years, take what you got from it and remember you have not walked in his shoes.
[/quote]
You seem to be using the fact that a few Stanford players have issued public positive tweets as support for your position. Can you conceive of a situation in which a Stanford player actually felt disappointment in their captain walking out on them and decided to ignite a sxxtstorm by tweeting their true feelings? I can't. Why? Because by and large, they're team players. All of them except one, anyway.
[/quote]
Mick-
It is clear that you and I view this differently. Yes I can conceive of it, they do it to coaches, why wouldn't they do it to other players. I am not trying to change your mind, I just do not get this indignation from the fans.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - SUBuddha - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 09:09 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16307.msg183182#msg183182 date=1482244764]
[quote author=winflop link=topic=16307.msg183175#msg183175 date=1482238648]
[quote author=Papa John link=topic=16307.msg183100#msg183100 date=1482193153]
Like others have said, there may be mitigating circumstances. What if, between December 7 and this morning, CMac felt a tweak or twinge that was an aftereffect of his midseason injury? Since we don't have all of the facts--and probably never will--I suppose that we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
If and when there is such information I may think differently. But he has stated that he is leaving his team before the end of the season to focus on the draft. You are making assumptions and attempting to rationalize with zero basis in fact. I take him at his word, I'm disappointed in him, and I criticize him for making a poor decision.
[/quote]
As anyone who follows you on twitter has seen you do consistently since it was announced.
I personally respect the kid for this. He is not quitting on his team, they have been universally supportive of him on social media. It was fun to watch him for three years, take what you got from it and remember you have not walked in his shoes.
[/quote]
You seem to be using the fact that a few Stanford players have issued public positive tweets as support for your position. Can you conceive of a situation in which a Stanford player actually felt disappointment in their captain walking out on them and decided to ignite a sxxtstorm by tweeting their true feelings? I can't. Why? Because by and large, they're team players. All of them except one, anyway.
[/quote]
Mick-
It is clear that you and I view this differently. Yes I can conceive of it, they do it to coaches, why wouldn't they do it to other players. I am not trying to change your mind, I just do not get this indignation from the fans.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - winflop - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 09:09 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16307.msg183182#msg183182 date=1482244764]
[quote author=winflop link=topic=16307.msg183175#msg183175 date=1482238648]
[quote author=Papa John link=topic=16307.msg183100#msg183100 date=1482193153]
Like others have said, there may be mitigating circumstances. What if, between December 7 and this morning, CMac felt a tweak or twinge that was an aftereffect of his midseason injury? Since we don't have all of the facts--and probably never will--I suppose that we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
If and when there is such information I may think differently. But he has stated that he is leaving his team before the end of the season to focus on the draft. You are making assumptions and attempting to rationalize with zero basis in fact. I take him at his word, I'm disappointed in him, and I criticize him for making a poor decision.
[/quote]
As anyone who follows you on twitter has seen you do consistently since it was announced.
I personally respect the kid for this. He is not quitting on his team, they have been universally supportive of him on social media. It was fun to watch him for three years, take what you got from it and remember you have not walked in his shoes.
[/quote]
You seem to be using the fact that a few Stanford players have issued public positive tweets as support for your position. Can you conceive of a situation in which a Stanford player actually felt disappointment in their captain walking out on themand decided to ignite a sxxtstorm by tweeting their true feelings? I can't. Why? Because by and large, they're team players. All of them except one, anyway.
[/quote]
What the team says publicly and how they feel privately can be two very different things. Still immensely respect him as a player and as I've stated previously I'm extremely thankful to have been able to watch him play live for much of his career. I haven't walked in his shoes, but that doesn't mean I can't say I disappointed in what I think is a poor decision that leaves a sour taste in my mouth - and that of many others - as he leaves the program.
This is NOT Sammy Sosa walking out on the Cubs on the last day of the season (and it turns out his career) because he wasn't going to be in the lineup. But that doesn't make it a good thing.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - winflop - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 09:09 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=SUBuddha link=topic=16307.msg183182#msg183182 date=1482244764]
[quote author=winflop link=topic=16307.msg183175#msg183175 date=1482238648]
[quote author=Papa John link=topic=16307.msg183100#msg183100 date=1482193153]
Like others have said, there may be mitigating circumstances. What if, between December 7 and this morning, CMac felt a tweak or twinge that was an aftereffect of his midseason injury? Since we don't have all of the facts--and probably never will--I suppose that we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
If and when there is such information I may think differently. But he has stated that he is leaving his team before the end of the season to focus on the draft. You are making assumptions and attempting to rationalize with zero basis in fact. I take him at his word, I'm disappointed in him, and I criticize him for making a poor decision.
[/quote]
As anyone who follows you on twitter has seen you do consistently since it was announced.
I personally respect the kid for this. He is not quitting on his team, they have been universally supportive of him on social media. It was fun to watch him for three years, take what you got from it and remember you have not walked in his shoes.
[/quote]
You seem to be using the fact that a few Stanford players have issued public positive tweets as support for your position. Can you conceive of a situation in which a Stanford player actually felt disappointment in their captain walking out on themand decided to ignite a sxxtstorm by tweeting their true feelings? I can't. Why? Because by and large, they're team players. All of them except one, anyway.
[/quote]
What the team says publicly and how they feel privately can be two very different things. Still immensely respect him as a player and as I've stated previously I'm extremely thankful to have been able to watch him play live for much of his career. I haven't walked in his shoes, but that doesn't mean I can't say I disappointed in what I think is a poor decision that leaves a sour taste in my mouth - and that of many others - as he leaves the program.
This is NOT Sammy Sosa walking out on the Cubs on the last day of the season (and it turns out his career) because he wasn't going to be in the lineup. But that doesn't make it a good thing.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:13 AM)martyup link Wrote:[quote author=winflop link=topic=16303.msg183153#msg183153 date=1482212456]
When I think about McCaffrey's career, these are the things that will come to mind
- Catching a pass in stride and sprinting 50+ for a TD against UCLA on the first touch of his career
I'm pretty sure that was against UC Davis. ;)
[/quote]
Those blue & yellow/gold teams all look the same. We always beat them year after year after year
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:13 AM)martyup link Wrote:[quote author=winflop link=topic=16303.msg183153#msg183153 date=1482212456]
When I think about McCaffrey's career, these are the things that will come to mind
- Catching a pass in stride and sprinting 50+ for a TD against UCLA on the first touch of his career
I'm pretty sure that was against UC Davis. ;)
[/quote]
Those blue & yellow/gold teams all look the same. We always beat them year after year after year
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - stupac2 - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:47 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:I would love to hear NFL players, coaches and GM views on this. I don't think skipping the bowl does anything to change the view of his talent/ability. The tape is there for all to see and the combine will display the measurables regardless. But are members of the NFL brotherhood cynical enough to all just view this as a business decision and all football play as a business decision, or do some of the GM's and coaches hold idealized view of teamwork and commitment that will make this decision show a flaw in CMAC's character.
I'm inclined to think that most just view it as a business and won't hold anything against CMAC for this decision, but on the margins, some will probably see this as a character flaw. If one of those is in a position to draft CMAC and takes a pass, it could hurt his draft position on the margins, but I doubt significantly. And what's the financial impact of dropping a handful of spots in the draft? If you're borderline end of first round/beginning of second, if you drop 5 spots, does that significantly hurt your earnings?
The only one I've seen was Zeke Elliot saying it was dumb, then recanting when finding out they had both been injured earlier in the year. I think that fact is a big mitigating factor.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - stupac2 - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:47 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:I would love to hear NFL players, coaches and GM views on this. I don't think skipping the bowl does anything to change the view of his talent/ability. The tape is there for all to see and the combine will display the measurables regardless. But are members of the NFL brotherhood cynical enough to all just view this as a business decision and all football play as a business decision, or do some of the GM's and coaches hold idealized view of teamwork and commitment that will make this decision show a flaw in CMAC's character.
I'm inclined to think that most just view it as a business and won't hold anything against CMAC for this decision, but on the margins, some will probably see this as a character flaw. If one of those is in a position to draft CMAC and takes a pass, it could hurt his draft position on the margins, but I doubt significantly. And what's the financial impact of dropping a handful of spots in the draft? If you're borderline end of first round/beginning of second, if you drop 5 spots, does that significantly hurt your earnings?
The only one I've seen was Zeke Elliot saying it was dumb, then recanting when finding out they had both been injured earlier in the year. I think that fact is a big mitigating factor.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:38 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:For those trying to connect quitting before the bowl game with foregoing a year of eligibility: I look at it from my personal experience. If my kids ask to sign up for a sport, they've commited to going to all practices adn games in which they're healthy. Their coaches and teammates rely on them for that season. They took a spot on the team someone else otherwise would have had. If they choose to quick once the season is over an not play the next season, that's fine. But it's important to follow through.
Of course we're only hearing supportive statements from teammates. If there are any dissatisfied teammates, they're not going to air it publicly. They'll keep their heads down. But I think the statement of Plunkett and Nelson are pretty telling of what some of the silent teammates may be thinking. We're all just fans, but they speak from direct experience.
I don't harbor ill will against CMAC. Just disappointment. Both in him and in the overall system and the direction it's going to take. How long before top high school players forego their senior seasons to avoid risk of injury? Or stop playing once they've signed? I think something is lost from sport/life when everyone is just making decisions to maximize their own personal financial outcome. Certain values are communicated to the fan base, kids who follow CMAC closely are watching this and thinking "I guess I should just make sure I get mine." Again, I'm not angry at CMAC, but definitely disappointed and I will probably care a little bit less about his long term career.
Couldn't agree more across the board. Really is too bad that he's likely the greatest player to put on a Stanford uniform and is leaving a bitter taste in the mouths of a good proportion of fans, and it would appear former players.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:38 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:For those trying to connect quitting before the bowl game with foregoing a year of eligibility: I look at it from my personal experience. If my kids ask to sign up for a sport, they've commited to going to all practices adn games in which they're healthy. Their coaches and teammates rely on them for that season. They took a spot on the team someone else otherwise would have had. If they choose to quick once the season is over an not play the next season, that's fine. But it's important to follow through.
Of course we're only hearing supportive statements from teammates. If there are any dissatisfied teammates, they're not going to air it publicly. They'll keep their heads down. But I think the statement of Plunkett and Nelson are pretty telling of what some of the silent teammates may be thinking. We're all just fans, but they speak from direct experience.
I don't harbor ill will against CMAC. Just disappointment. Both in him and in the overall system and the direction it's going to take. How long before top high school players forego their senior seasons to avoid risk of injury? Or stop playing once they've signed? I think something is lost from sport/life when everyone is just making decisions to maximize their own personal financial outcome. Certain values are communicated to the fan base, kids who follow CMAC closely are watching this and thinking "I guess I should just make sure I get mine." Again, I'm not angry at CMAC, but definitely disappointed and I will probably care a little bit less about his long term career.
Couldn't agree more across the board. Really is too bad that he's likely the greatest player to put on a Stanford uniform and is leaving a bitter taste in the mouths of a good proportion of fans, and it would appear former players.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - 82lsju - 12-20-2016
and Shaw's official comments
"We understand that this was a very difficult decision. For three years Christian has not only been a great player, but a great teammate as well," said David Shaw, Stanford's Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football. "We wish him great success at the next level, as we continue our preparation for the Sun Bowl."
http://www.gostanford.com/news/2016/12/19/football-mccaffrey-to-miss-bowl.aspx
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - 82lsju - 12-20-2016
and Shaw's official comments
"We understand that this was a very difficult decision. For three years Christian has not only been a great player, but a great teammate as well," said David Shaw, Stanford's Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football. "We wish him great success at the next level, as we continue our preparation for the Sun Bowl."
http://www.gostanford.com/news/2016/12/19/football-mccaffrey-to-miss-bowl.aspx
Tim Ryan quote - Mick - 12-20-2016
I was listening to Tom Tolbert interview Tim Ryan on KNBR. Ryan led U$C to three Rose Bowls and a Citrus Bowl and holds the team record for tackles and sacks. He played four seasons in the NFL.
Tolbert interviewed him about the 49ers, because Ryan is their color analyst. Ryan has a reputation of being candid and hung the "loser" tag on the 49ers during the interview.Â
Separately, Tolbert asked him about McCaffrey. Ryan asked if he had a legit injury, Tolbert says he just wants to get ready for the NFL. Ryan said "I don't agree with it." "Those are you teammates, man. You're there to win a football game, most importantly. He's entitled to his own decision, and I understand wanting to get healthy. But I would play if it were me." Ryan agreed it would be different if it were the Rose Bowl.Â
Ryan respects his dad who he claims to know well, but he says NFL scouts will evaluate it differently in light of the draft. Specifically he said "at the end of the day, they like guys who like to play."Â
Tim Ryan quote - Mick - 12-20-2016
I was listening to Tom Tolbert interview Tim Ryan on KNBR. Ryan led U$C to three Rose Bowls and a Citrus Bowl and holds the team record for tackles and sacks. He played four seasons in the NFL.
Tolbert interviewed him about the 49ers, because Ryan is their color analyst. Ryan has a reputation of being candid and hung the "loser" tag on the 49ers during the interview.Â
Separately, Tolbert asked him about McCaffrey. Ryan asked if he had a legit injury, Tolbert says he just wants to get ready for the NFL. Ryan said "I don't agree with it." "Those are you teammates, man. You're there to win a football game, most importantly. He's entitled to his own decision, and I understand wanting to get healthy. But I would play if it were me." Ryan agreed it would be different if it were the Rose Bowl.Â
Ryan respects his dad who he claims to know well, but he says NFL scouts will evaluate it differently in light of the draft. Specifically he said "at the end of the day, they like guys who like to play."Â
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - JohnR34231 - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 09:26 AM)eric link Wrote:and Shaw's official comments
"We understand that this was a very difficult decision. For three years Christian has not only been a great player, but a great teammate as well," said David Shaw, Stanford's Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football. "We wish him great success at the next level, as we continue our preparation for the Sun Bowl."
http://www.gostanford.com/news/2016/12/19/football-mccaffrey-to-miss-bowl.aspx
Interesting what Shaw didn't say.
He didn't say he supported the decision, thought it was a good idea, or understood how CMac could make it.
My guess is he felt none of those emotions.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - JohnR34231 - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 09:26 AM)eric link Wrote:and Shaw's official comments
"We understand that this was a very difficult decision. For three years Christian has not only been a great player, but a great teammate as well," said David Shaw, Stanford's Bradford M. Freeman Director of Football. "We wish him great success at the next level, as we continue our preparation for the Sun Bowl."
http://www.gostanford.com/news/2016/12/19/football-mccaffrey-to-miss-bowl.aspx
Interesting what Shaw didn't say.
He didn't say he supported the decision, thought it was a good idea, or understood how CMac could make it.
My guess is he felt none of those emotions.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:03 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:Team means a lot to me. However, I just don't get this from the fans. If the players feel like he quit on them that is different.
We are fans, he owes us nothing. We have no claim on his life, judge him how you will, but I have increased respect for him after this. I respect honesty above all else, perhaps why I am a not the first person asked to give performance reviews to my staff. He was honest with his team and with his fans. That I respect.
I played lacrosse and rugby at LSJU. I was out of money for school entering senior year. I took 25 units fall and winter quarter just to get out without having to borrow more money. This means I could not play spring quarter. Granted I was not a star, and not even a starter in rugby.
So does that mean I quit on my teams by doing what was best for me, or does this only apply to our star athletes?
You had a reason. Christian is quitting to start individual draft prep a couple weeks early, hundreds of other college football players will prep for the draft Christian and the LSU kid are the only ones deciding they need a couple extra weeks.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-20-2016
(12-20-2016, 08:03 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:Team means a lot to me. However, I just don't get this from the fans. If the players feel like he quit on them that is different.
We are fans, he owes us nothing. We have no claim on his life, judge him how you will, but I have increased respect for him after this. I respect honesty above all else, perhaps why I am a not the first person asked to give performance reviews to my staff. He was honest with his team and with his fans. That I respect.
I played lacrosse and rugby at LSJU. I was out of money for school entering senior year. I took 25 units fall and winter quarter just to get out without having to borrow more money. This means I could not play spring quarter. Granted I was not a star, and not even a starter in rugby.
So does that mean I quit on my teams by doing what was best for me, or does this only apply to our star athletes?
You had a reason. Christian is quitting to start individual draft prep a couple weeks early, hundreds of other college football players will prep for the draft Christian and the LSU kid are the only ones deciding they need a couple extra weeks.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016
IF Christian is injured, that's different. Of course, it's all a matter of degree. Aren't all players always "working through something"? If it were a conference championship, sure, he would fight through something minor. But he doesn't say he has an injury (he probably wouldn't want to broadcast that for NFL scouts). So we have to go with his statement alone. But we also have his statement from two weeks ago that he was committed to helping the team win their bowl game without distraction. What happened to that objective?
If anything, this decision undermines that goal as now there's a bunch of press on the topic, his teammates are probably distracted by the media (they're clearly engaged based on the tweets going around). In addition to removing himself as a resource, he may be doing harm with the sideshow this creates.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016
IF Christian is injured, that's different. Of course, it's all a matter of degree. Aren't all players always "working through something"? If it were a conference championship, sure, he would fight through something minor. But he doesn't say he has an injury (he probably wouldn't want to broadcast that for NFL scouts). So we have to go with his statement alone. But we also have his statement from two weeks ago that he was committed to helping the team win their bowl game without distraction. What happened to that objective?
If anything, this decision undermines that goal as now there's a bunch of press on the topic, his teammates are probably distracted by the media (they're clearly engaged based on the tweets going around). In addition to removing himself as a resource, he may be doing harm with the sideshow this creates.