Outside Topic Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Printable Version
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RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - teejers1 - 02-12-2020
(02-12-2020, 01:59 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(02-11-2020, 06:36 PM)oldalum Wrote:(12-11-2019, 01:09 PM)teejers1 Wrote: I've just never been big on enjoying others' pains/embarrassment/what-have-you.For me, enjoying is not the right word. More like satisfaction at seeing justice done, which is somewhat reassuring when it seems like so many injustices in the world--small and large--are not rectified.
Oh, I'm enjoying this, all right. We all know how hard it is to get into a good academic university these days. And at the end of the day, these entitled brats basically took the places of truly deserving students who worked hard and were denied.
The fat-cat parents deserve to be prosecuted fully. This doesn't counterbalance the more serious abuses of our legal and judicial system, but it works for me. I guess maybe this is one of my "OK boomer" moments.
Wait, are you the boomer or the younger generation complaining about same?
And isn't it the younger generation that thinks the criminal justice system is flawed, with too severe prison punishments . . . or is that only against the under-represented communities?
As an old guy, I try to have a "policy" to adhere to when it comes to criminal punishment and deterrence. (Schadenfreude isn't part of that equation (at least I try not to let it be)). The parents should pay financially. Funding another kid's tuition (or two or five) at the University where their kids were illicitly admitted is appropriate; and then with some time - either a short stint in the slam or perhaps something more proactive, such as charitable volunteer work in the real world. You know, maybe do some real work helping underprivileged youth.
And as an aside, how much prison time would you need to ensure that a transgression you made (which I will assume would not involve bodily injury to anyone) would not be repeated? I'd bet good money about a week would more than suffice. That's why I don't understand all those gloating over people getting a year+ behind bars.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - qwerty49 - 02-12-2020
(02-12-2020, 04:40 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(02-12-2020, 01:59 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(02-11-2020, 06:36 PM)oldalum Wrote:(12-11-2019, 01:09 PM)teejers1 Wrote: I've just never been big on enjoying others' pains/embarrassment/what-have-you.For me, enjoying is not the right word. More like satisfaction at seeing justice done, which is somewhat reassuring when it seems like so many injustices in the world--small and large--are not rectified.
Oh, I'm enjoying this, all right. We all know how hard it is to get into a good academic university these days. And at the end of the day, these entitled brats basically took the places of truly deserving students who worked hard and were denied.
The fat-cat parents deserve to be prosecuted fully. This doesn't counterbalance the more serious abuses of our legal and judicial system, but it works for me. I guess maybe this is one of my "OK boomer" moments.
Wait, are you the boomer or the younger generation complaining about same?
And isn't it the younger generation that thinks the criminal justice system is flawed, with too severe prison punishments . . . or is that only against the under-represented communities?
As an old guy, I try to have a "policy" to adhere to when it comes to criminal punishment and deterrence. (Schadenfreude isn't part of that equation (at least I try not to let it be)). The parents should pay financially. Funding another kid's tuition (or two or five) at the University where their kids were illicitly admitted is appropriate; and then with some time - either a short stint in the slam or perhaps something more proactive, such as charitable volunteer work in the real world. You know, maybe do some real work helping underprivileged youth.
And as an aside, how much prison time would you need to ensure that a transgression you made (which I will assume would not involve bodily injury to anyone) would not be repeated? I'd bet good money about a week would more than suffice. That's why I don't understand all those gloating over people getting a year+ behind bars.
You bring up an interesting implication that the point of incarceration is to deter recidivism. (Jeez, I just used way too many SAT words in that sentence.) I would submit that setting an example to others is more important. There are many more folks who might be tempted to go the Aunt Becky route if she gets off relatively scot-free instead of doing serious time; the odds that she would be a repeat offender are IMO irrelevant.
And yes, I'm definitely a boomer. Don't take it personally, but I have a dim view at best of our criminal (and civil) justice system. I'm just glad I haven't had to deal with it.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 02-13-2020
(02-12-2020, 04:40 PM)teejers1 Wrote: And as an aside, how much prison time would you need to ensure that a transgression you made (which I will assume would not involve bodily injury to anyone) would not be repeated? I'd bet good money about a week would more than suffice. That's why I don't understand all those gloating over people getting a year+ behind bars.
nobody has gotten a year plus behind bars yet, most of the sentences have been ~1/3 to ~1/2 of the prosecutor recommendations, so far
Sartorio with 7 points, got probation
Huffman with 9 points, got 2 weeks
Klapper with 9 points, got 3 weeks
Buckingham with 11 points, got 3 weeks
Caplan with 11 points, got 1 month
Flaxman with 11 points got 1 month
G. Abbot with 13 points, got 1 month
M. Abbot with 13 points, got 1 month
Bizzack with unknown points got 2 months
Sloane with 14 points, got 4 months
Semprevivo with 16 points, got 4 months
Huneeus with 16 points, got 5 months
MacFarlane with 16 points, got 6 months
Hodge with unknown points got 9 months
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - oldalum - 02-13-2020
(02-11-2020, 06:36 PM)oldalum Wrote: For me, enjoying is not the right word. More like satisfaction at seeing justice done, which is somewhat reassuring when it seems like so many injustices in the world--small and large--are not rectified.With one exception: I will enjoy seeing Loughlin get convicted, based on her laughable defense and her child who revealed she was just in college for the status.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - BostonCard - 02-13-2020
Apropos nothing...
Quote:convicted high-status white collar criminals were 98.7 percent less likely to receive prison sentences than people who committed welfare fraud.
from: https://www.huffpost.com/highline/article/white-collar-crime/?guccounter=1
BC
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Mick - 02-13-2020
(02-13-2020, 06:32 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Apropos nothing...
Quote:convicted high-status white collar criminals were 98.7 percent less likely to receive prison sentences than people who committed welfare fraud.
from: https://www.huffpost.com/highline/article/white-collar-crime/?guccounter=1
BC
Why do you think that is?
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 2006alum - 02-13-2020
White collar crime proceeds generally afford the perpetrator fancy legal counsel, something welfare skimming most certainly does not.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 02-25-2020
a second coach is sentenced
Quote:
Michael Center, former men’s tennis coach at the University of Texas at Austin ...was sentenced to six months in prison for taking a $100,000 bribe as part of a sweeping college admissions scam.
....
In 2015, Singer gave Center $40,000 for the school's tennis program and later flew to Austin, where he gave the coach about $60,000 in cash for himself during a meeting in a hotel parking lot, prosecutors say[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)].[/color]
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/former-university-of-texas-tennis-coach-gets-6-months-in-college-admissions-scam/2081073/
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - murky - 02-25-2020
(02-25-2020, 11:26 AM)82lsju Wrote: a second coach is sentenced
Quote:
Michael Center, former men’s tennis coach at the University of Texas at Austin ...was sentenced to six months in prison for taking a $100,000 bribe as part of a sweeping college admissions scam.
....
In 2015, Singer gave Center $40,000 for the school's tennis program and later flew to Austin, where he gave the coach about $60,000 in cash for himself during a meeting in a hotel parking lot, prosecutors say[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)].[/color]
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/former-university-of-texas-tennis-coach-gets-6-months-in-college-admissions-scam/2081073/
The judge tells him hes a probably a good man and believes his contrition.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - M T - 02-25-2020
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/25/us/michelle-janavs-sentence-college-admissions-scam/index.html
Quote:Former food company executive Michelle Janavs was sentenced to five months in prison Tuesday for paying bribes...
Janavs, whose family invented Hot Pockets, paid the scheme's mastermind, Rick Singer, $100,000 to cheat on two of her daughters' ACTs, and agreed to pay $200,000 to have one of the daughters admitted to University of Southern California as a "fake beach volleyball recruit," according to a sentencing memorandum.
Janavs in October pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering.
She was also ordered to pay a $250,000 fine and to serve two years of supervised release after prison
I also noticed in one earlier article that Singer allegedly had been doing his claims of non-athletes being recruits for 24 years (to Aug 2018). I see Johan Vavic began the USC women's water polo team in 1995, and joined the USC men's water polo team as co-head coach in (fall) 1995. I wonder if there is an off-by-one error or whether there was a coach or admissions person involved before Vavic became a head coach at USC. (Note that I do not state that Vavic was involved at any time. He is presumed innocent.)
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - BobK - 02-25-2020
Vavic was fired you know? And a month ago several in the usc AD
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - oldalum - 02-25-2020
NY Times article today on what has happened with the kids involved.
NY Times article
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - M T - 03-05-2020
TMZ article regarding USC and its responses regarding Loughlin.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 2006alum - 04-29-2020
Interesting aftermath update on Felicity Hoffman's daughter, who has apparently enrolled at Carnegie Melon. We've talked a lot about the helicopter parents at the center of the scandal, but it's also interesting to think about the impact this has had on the kids, not all of whom were aware of what was going on. From Vulture, on Huffman's daughter's reaction when she found out:
Quote:During Huffman’s court testimony, she revealed that she was motivated to commit fraud due to her daughter suffering from a longstanding learning disability. She would later go on to write a personal letter to the judge, detailing how Macy — who was unaware of her mom’s illicit actions — handled the aftermath of the revelation. “When my daughter looked at me and asked with tears streaming down her face, ‘Why didn’t you believe in me? Why didn’t you think I could do it on my own?’ I had no adequate answer for her,” Huffman wrote. “I could only say, ‘I am sorry.’ ” Huffman’s younger daughter, Georgia Macy, will also begin college in the fall at Vassar.
I'm reminded of former Stanford Dean of Freshman and Transfers Julie Lythcott-Haims' book, How to Raise an Adult, in which she observed the rise of helicopter parenting and how it often backfired. This is perhaps a most extreme example of that.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Mick - 04-29-2020
(04-29-2020, 12:30 PM)2006alum Wrote: I'm reminded of former Stanford Dean of Freshman and Transfers Julie Lythcott-Haims' book, How to Raise an Adult, in which she observed the rise of helicopter parenting and how it often backfired. This is perhaps a most extreme example of that.
I remember the first time I ever heard the term "helicopter parenting". My oldest was in his first year of club volleyball, about the sixth practice or so. We were allowed to watch the first two practices, and after that it was drop off and pick up. After a week, the coach had separated the players into first and second teams. When I dropped off my son, the father of one of the second team players was haranguing the coach about playing time. I left, returned two hours later -- and the dad was still harassing the coach. The club director, standing near the entrance muttered derisively "helicopter parent" (although we all fit that definition to an extent). I asked, she told me what it meant. The irony was not lost on me that she made her living from helicopter parents.
Later, one of the older players' parents clued me in -- the club director had been dissatisfied with her son's position on another club, she wanted him to set -- so she started her own club and installed her son as setter. Later on, he played for Stanford.
So that helicopter parent thing can work. And I think Lythcott-Haims is probably more right than wrong. On the other hand, both my wife and I agree that our parents did essentially nothing to prepare us for life, college or anything else, so...helicopter parent was the result. Or tiger parent, depending on how you feel about it.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 05-21-2020
Quote:Lori Loughlin and Mossimo Giannulli have agreed to plead guilty to conspiracy charges in connection with securing the fraudulent admission of their two children to the University of Southern California as purported athletic recruits.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/california-couple-college-admissions-case-agrees-plead-guilty
his plea agreement is here
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/press-release/file/1278131/download
her's is here
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/page/file/1278146/download
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Griffins78 - 08-22-2020
Lori Loughlin will serve two months in prison, pay a $150,000 fine, serve 100 hours of community service and be under supervised release for two years.
Mossimo Giannulli will serve five months in prison, pay a fine of $250,000, serve 250 hours of community service and be under supervised release for two years.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 11-16-2020
Quote: Former Harvard fencing coach Peter Brand and a wealthy Maryland businessman were arrested Monday on accusations that Brand accepted $1.5 million in bribes in exchange for helping the businessman get his two sons into Harvard.
Federal prosecutors said Brand, 67, conspired with Jie Zhao, 61, a Maryland businessman, to get Zhao’s two sons into Harvard by recruiting them to join the fencing team in exchange for money.
Back in 2016, Brand sold his home in Needham for almost twice what a tax document said it was worth. Zhao bought Brand’s home for $989,500, according to the deed. At the time, he had a son on the Harvard fencing team and one in high school, The Boston Globe reported in April 2019. Harvard launched an independent review of that transaction following the Globe report and fired Brand in July 2019
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/11/16/peter-brand-former-harvard-fencing-coach-arrested-charged-admissions-conspiracy-jie-zhao/
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 01-21-2021
Varsity Blues defendant Robert Zangrillo gets a presidential pardon
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-21/fingerpointing-outrage-after-trump-pardons-usc-father-in-college-admission-scandal
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - PalmTree - 01-21-2021
(01-21-2021, 09:26 AM)82lsju Wrote: Varsity Blues defendant Robert Zangrillo gets a presidential pardon
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-21/fingerpointing-outrage-after-trump-pardons-usc-father-in-college-admission-scandal
Here's a non-paywall link to the same story: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Fingerpointing-outrage-after-Trump-pardons-USC-15887289.php