about those late kick-offs - Printable Version

about those late kick-offs - Printable Version

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Re: about those late kick-offs - stupac2 - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 01:44 PM)Embo link Wrote:Would Scott ever have U.SC.-UCLA play other than the weekend after Thanksgiving?

Uh, those teams play the weekend before Thanksgiving every even year, when USC plays ND the weekend after Thanksgiving. That's why we always seem to play UCLA on the final week of even years.

Re: about those late kick-offs - CrazedZooChimp - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 10:41 AM)82lsju link Wrote:[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=13725.msg143201#msg143201 date=1448299725]

The rivalry protection certainty thing likely will have less support.Â And FWIW - it doesn't matter as much to me.Â I know I will be at Big Game if it starts at 10AM or 10PM.Â In some ways, the rivalry games are the easiest to justify starting at 7PM since the rivalry game fans and players likely are not too far from hom.Â It is a long night, but the Low APR U kids still got home at a good hour.Â Under Stanford Control and UCLA would be in a similar not too late return situation.Â Same for Oregon and OSU.Â

well this year for Rivalry games (all local times below), ours was the only one that started after 1:30pm local time

- Big Game Sat 21 Nov 7:30pm
- UA @ ASU Sat 21 Nov 1:30pm
- WSU @ UW Fri 27 Nov 12:30pm
- OSU @ UO Fri 27 Nov 1:00pm
- UCLA @ Under Stanford Control Sat 28 Nov 12:30pm
- CU @ UU Sat 28 Nov 12:30pm
[/quote]

Am I the only person who prefers our 7:30 start to all of those other ones?Â I'd rather the game be at night than have to wake up at 6AM to get a proper Big Game tailgate in...

(11-23-2015, 02:04 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Embo link=topic=13725.msg143245#msg143245 date=1448311474]Would Scott ever have U.SC.-UCLA play other than the weekend after Thanksgiving?

Uh, those teams play the weekend before Thanksgiving every even year, when Under Stanford Control plays ND the weekend after Thanksgiving. That's why we always seem to play UCLA on the final week of even years.
[/quote]

The real question is why are we slaves to Notre Dames scheduling, we don't get any money from them.Â Or do Stanford and Cal still refuse to play Big Game Thanksgiving weekend too, for some reason?

Re: about those late kick-offs - Embo - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 02:04 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Embo link=topic=13725.msg143245#msg143245 date=1448311474]Would Scott ever have U.SC.-UCLA play other than the weekend after Thanksgiving?

Uh, those teams play the weekend before Thanksgiving every even year, when Under Stanford Control plays ND the weekend after Thanksgiving. That's why we always seem to play UCLA on the final week of even years.
[/quote]

Okay, so I stand corrected about even years.Â But the point remains:Â Would Scott have ever dared to move the U.SC - UCLA game to an October weekend?Â No way.Â No effing way.

Re: about those late kick-offs - 82lsju - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 02:18 PM)Embo link Wrote:Okay, so I stand corrected about even years.Â But the point remains:Â Would Scott have ever dared to move the U.SC - UCLA game to an October weekend?Â No way.Â No effing way.

part of the reason given for moving Big Game to Oct was the ND game being in Nov, I'm still waiting for the same logic to be applied to the USC/UCLA game.......

Re: about those late kick-offs - 82lsju - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 02:13 PM)CrazedZooChimp link Wrote:The real question is why are we slaves to Notre Dames scheduling, we don't get any money from them.Â Or do Stanford and Low APR U still refuse to play Big Game Thanksgiving weekend too, for some reason?

last I heard there was still brobdingnagian resistance to having Big Game the week of Thanksgiving

- Stanford closes for the week
- Cal closes Wed-Fri

as to why keep the ND game, well there's the

- regular trip to the midwest for recruiting purposes (and the opportunity to tour South Bend Indiana)
- storied intersectional rivalry (but not as storied as their rivalry with USC)
- help it gives ND recruiting by giving them a west coast game every year (oh, I guess that's not good for us)
- at least back when we first started playing them, it almost guaranteed the game would be televised (no longer applicable as all the games are televised, but I cannot imagine this game ever being on the Pac-12 network so this guarantees either NBC (games there) or ESPN/ABC or FOX (games here))
- "The Legends Trophy"

Re: about those late kick-offs - CornFed - 11-23-2015

" .Â .Â .Â .Â But the TV stations are always going to want 1-2 teams playing after 7 PM."

If getting scheduled as one team is possible, you can bet that the BIG12 and the SEC will make a beeline to sign up.Â They couldn't get a bigger creampuff than playing themselves, right?Â :P

Re: about those late kick-offs - stupac2 - 11-23-2015

The way I remember it putting Big Game in October was basically payback for Cal and Stanford being annoyingly demanding about things, especially Big Game not being on Thanksgiving weekend (this was never the official reason, obviously, rather the scuttlebutt, and it makes more sense). That is, it was basically "Oh, so you don't want to play on Thanksgiving? How's October? DO YOU LIKE THAT????" It obviously wasn't solely spite, they did have to shift stuff around because of the calendar (IIRC that was a 13-week year and there was something else that made scheduling every rivalry plus the ND game in the last two weeks impossible), but we're the ones who got hosed because we had been annoying. If that comes up again it'll probably be someone else's turn, but I think it wasn't the sort of thing that would come up often.

Re: about those late kick-offs - CrazedZooChimp - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 02:29 PM)82lsju link Wrote:[quote author=CrazedZooChimp link=topic=13725.msg143259#msg143259 date=1448313185]

The real question is why are we slaves to Notre Dames scheduling, we don't get any money from them.Â Or do Stanford and Low APR U still refuse to play Big Game Thanksgiving weekend too, for some reason?

last I heard there was still of exceedingly large proportions resistance to having Big Game the week of Thanksgiving

- Stanford closes for the week
- Low APR U closes Wed-Fri

[/quote]

I'd be willing to bet money every other University in the Pac-12 (and country) take several days off for Thanksgiving, because, you know, EVERYONE does that.Â What makes us special?Â Our tiny fan bases that won't want to come back early or live far away?Â Why should the conference make special exceptions for that?

As for ND, I don't have a problem playing them every year, but we (and $C) for some reason agree to let them come to California every Thanksgiving weekend.Â I guess it's OK since we don't want to play Kal that weekend, but sure seems we could we say to ND, "hey, we'd love to keep playing you guys, but let's schedule that game in September like every other non-conference game.Â It's not our problem you guys don't want to be in a conference."Â I guess it means we can sell out a Thanksgiving weekend game, which apparently we think we can't do for Big Game...

Re: about those late kick-offs - stupac2 - 11-23-2015

I think Stanford and Cal draw a disproportionate number of students from far away compared to the rest of the schools. It's hard to tell, though, since California is so big. Stanford has the largest percentage of out-of-state students, with USC second, but what really matters for the CA schools is the local areas and afaik that's going to be impossible to find.

Re: about those late kick-offs - 82lsju - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 03:35 PM)CrazedZooChimp link Wrote:I'd be willing to bet money every other University in the Pac-12 (and country) take several days off for Thanksgiving, because, you know, EVERYONE does that.Â What makes us special?Â Our tiny fan bases that won't want to come back early or live far away?Â Why should the conference make special exceptions for that?

well of the Pac-8 schools, I stopped checking after that, four are closed Thur-Fri, two Wed-Fri, and two Mon-Fri.

The only pair that have the same closure are OU and OSU Thur-Fri

- OU closes Thur-Fri
- OSU closes Thur-Fri
- WSU closes Mon-Fri
- UW close Thur-Fri
- UCLA closes Thur-Fri
- USC closes Wed-Fri
- LSJU closes Mon-Fri
- Cal closes Wed-Fri

Re: about those late kick-offs - winflop - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 12:39 PM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:Here's a letter from a classmate of mine to Muir, which I heartily endorse. He told me, "I am now officially a cranky old alum."

Quote:Stop being a slave to television. Stanford has an endowment of 36 billion for God's sake which couldÂ easily give a full ride to every student, not just athletes.Â I and many thousands of Alumni give money to Stanford in order to support students and maintain Stanford as a private and independent institution of higher learning, not a lap dog to ESPN and Fox. Furthermore, there is this:

Quote:"But seven Stanford games have started at 7 p.m. or later; thats 10 p.m. in the East. Steve Palazzolo of Pro Football Focus tweeted: If Christian McCaffrey goes for 386 (sic) all-purpose yards but its 1:40 am eastern, did it really happen for the Voldemort voters?
http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Christian-McCaffrey-s-Voldemort-hopes-face-6650832.php

William C., Class of 1970

In other words - Hey Muir, GROW A PAIR!

Re: about those late kick-offs - 82lsju - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 04:59 PM)garvin link Wrote:And with no food service on campus, a lot of them aren't likely to come back on Friday night for a Saturday game.

The Arrillaga Family Dining Commons are open during Thanksgiving week

https://rde.stanford.edu/dining/thanksgiving-hours-2015

https://rde.stanford.edu/dining/arrillaga-family-dining-commons

Re: about those late kick-offs - g1313 - 11-23-2015

(11-23-2015, 04:59 PM)garvin link Wrote:The length of our closure guarantees that something close to 100 percent of our undergrads depart for Thanksgiving week. And with no food service on campus, a lot of them aren't likely to come back on Friday night for a Saturday game.

Stanford trying not to schedule Big Game that weekend is basically an attempt to preserve Big Game as an undergraduate experience. (Revenue-wise, it doesn't matter, because the students don't pay for tickets anyway, so all Stanford is losing is some coke-and-hot-dog money.) I think that's a good idea. I don't really understand why we have to shut down for the entire week of Thanksgiving -- surely there are less-inconvenient ways to save money -- but that decision clearly isn't within the purview of the AD.

When I was an undergrad, campus was only closed for Thu-Fri, it looks like this only changed in 2005. http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/january26/schedule-012605.html. This article portrays the motivation as academic calendar related rather than any facilities or cost reasons.

Don't forget that for students, there are activities all throughout "Big Game Week", so even if students would change their behavior and come back on Friday night, you would still lose out on most of the pre-game stuff.

Re: about those late kick-offs - Mick - 11-24-2015

(11-23-2015, 01:15 PM)Nan3cy link Wrote:Unless the endowment has done REALLY well since 8/31/15, I doubt it's $36B. As of 8/31 it was $22.2 billion, according to "Stanford University Facts." The point remains valid, but having an exaggerated number in their just gives them an excuse to dismiss the point.

Maybe the Trustees went to the Wynn and put $14 bils. on "Red..."

Re: about those late kick-offs - CTcard - 11-24-2015

(11-23-2015, 02:13 PM)CrazedZooChimp link Wrote:Or do Stanford and Low APR U still refuse to play Big Game Thanksgiving weekend too, for some reason?

Yes, c.a.l. and Stanford have both refused to play Big Game on Thanksgiving weekend.

The Pac 12 office said that they were offered Thanksgiving weekend for Big Game in 2012. Both refused citing all the student reasons that have been mentioned here, but also all the various activities around the Bay Area that week that would be very difficult to maintain while folks are focussing on family and the holiday.

---------------------
The request for Muir to grow a pair with respect to game times is pretty odd. He simply has no authority on the matter. I don't see how a giant, bounce on them beach-ball sized pair would have any influence.Â I suppose it might have made a difference at the time they were negotiating the current TV contract - except for the fact that he was at Delaware at the time.

Re: about those late kick-offs - BostonCard - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 09:43 AM)garvin link Wrote:This article portrays the motivation as academic calendar related rather than any facilities or cost reasons.

Pure spin. Most offices and facilities close for the week and employees have to take vacation or unpaid furlough. And I'd guess that, far from being a student-initiated change, it was probably opposed by a number of students. My student budget certainly couldn't have borne a trip home at Thanksgiving, especially just three weeks or so before going home for Christmas.

I don't know about that now, a lot of things are changing.Â I would imagine that for kids in the East Coast who did want to go home for Thanksgiving, it's a godsend, since they don't have to chose between taking a Wednesday night redeye and missing classes Wed.Â Plus, traveling to the East Coast for four days makes no sense; but doing so for 9 (8 if you subtract a day of travel) makes some sense.Â Also, it means not having to travel on the busiest day of the year (Wed before Thanksgiving).

Even for kids who live closer, there are some advantages; you can road trip anywhere in the West coast and avoid flying, for example.

I suspect the rationale is similar to my kids' school district giving the entire President's Day week off (it's called ski week).Â Absenteeism was so high that week because of families going to Tahoe that the district stopped fighting it and just gave the whole week off.Â I suspect a similar situation at Stanford for Thanksgiving.

BC

Re: about those late kick-offs - 82lsju - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 02:44 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:I suspect the rationale is similar to my kids' school district giving the entire President's Day week off (it's called ski week).Â Absenteeism was so high that week because of families going to Tahoe that the district stopped fighting it and just gave the whole week off.Â I suspect a similar situation at Stanford for Thanksgiving.

BC

Re: about those late kick-offs - BostonCard - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 03:24 PM)82lsju link Wrote:[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=13725.msg143542#msg143542 date=1448401498]

I suspect the rationale is similar to my kids' school district giving the entire President's Day week off (it's called ski week).Â Absenteeism was so high that week because of families going to Tahoe that the district stopped fighting it and just gave the whole week off.Â I suspect a similar situation at Stanford for Thanksgiving.

BC

the motivation is even higher in K-12 public schools in California since state funding is linked to the actual number of student attendance days so high absentee rates for known dates costs the districts money.Â Of course the days off (my local district has this week off, two weeks at Christmas, a ski week, a spring break week and other assorted days off.) cause school to run from mid-Aug to Mid-Jun and people complain about no time for a summer vacation......
[/quote]

See, I complain about summer vacation running too long!Â If it were up to me, I'd have summer vacation be no longer than 2 months - June 15 through August 15.Â I believe California requires 180 days of instruction, which is 36 weeks.Â If you add in holidays and random other days the school is closed, that would be 38 weeks, giving you 14 weeks to spread out the rest of the year.Â 8 weeks in the summer, 3 in the winter, 1 in the spring, 1 during ski week and 1 in the fall sounds good.

BC