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Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - CornFed - 08-24-2016

"Binge Drinking:

NIAAA defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking that brings blood alcohol concentration (BAC) levels to 0.08 g/dL. This typically occurs after 4 drinks for women and 5 drinks for men—in about 2 hours."



While there is a wide range of sensitivity to alcohol intake, the emphasized part of the NIAAA's guidance I cited grossly overstates the number of standard drinks that could result in a BAC at 0.08.  For a small person who is tired and hasn't eaten anything, two standard drinks within a 2-hour period would probably be sufficient.  Certainly, however, it would be fair to define binge drinking as 4-5 drinks in a two-hour period.  This would result in a much higher BAC, though.

The percentage of students binge drinking, then, is probably sensationalized by using the 0.08 measure.  Binge drinking is overestimated if they are including people with 0.08 BAC.

Also, the notion that eliminating access to hard alcohol (if that could even be accomplished) will have a meaningful effect on reducing problem drinking is not realistic.  It is whistling through the graveyard to believe otherwise.

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - CTcard - 08-24-2016

(08-23-2016, 10:58 PM)amartinsu13 link Wrote:Is the answer really "more alcohol education"?  I highly doubt that.
...

I like this post. It's thoughtful, acknowledges reality, and has a more recent read on the campus than most of us have. Even the internal contradictions point out the degree of the problem.


A couple of items that stuck out to me,

Quote:Especially during freshman year, in the row houses, and in the Greek scene.
The row houses would not have been included in this list in the mid-80s. Those were a decidedly non-party scene lifestyle back then.


Quote:2) ...  Actually enforce the alcohol rules that already existed.
What are those these days?
[Stanford rules - not state of California laws]


Quote:1) Starting freshman year ... 
2) Starting at the beginning of each new year, for all students.  ...
3) Starting with the 'influencers' ...
Certainly the places to start. The tricky part, of course, is to start doing just what?

----------
By the way, does anyone happen to know if Stanford has released any internal studies concerning the degree of problems at Stanford and how those may have changed over the years?

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - 81alum - 08-24-2016

(08-23-2016, 10:58 PM)amartinsu13 link Wrote:Is the answer really "more alcohol education"?  I highly doubt that.
Perhaps this is more a matter of semantics than I intended.  If by alcohol education you mean some online course about the perils of alcohol abuse, I would agree with you.  But the thrust of your post is that the culture of drinking, particularly in the first year, needs to change.  Yes!  That is precisely what I mean.  Education more broadly is about changing culture.  We know for a fact that there are cultures on this planet that treat alcohol much differently than the "US-university-first-year-away-from-home" culture does.  Education in a broad sense means changing the culture.  How do we do that?  How did we cut smoking among young people?  How did we produce generational change on attitudes toward LGBTQ people?  Stanford has some of the world's greatest experts on these and related subjects.  It would be nice to see the university tap the med school and the Psychology faculty to generate an innovative and effective program to shift the culture.  Stanford could be a leader. 

Whether this ban should be a part of shifting the culture, I really don't know.  I hope it was not cooked up by some deanlet or VP for student affairs, but was well considered by people who actually know something about what works in the field of substance abuse.



Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - Row80Critic - 08-24-2016

Not to trivialize an important topic at all, but does anyone know if this will impact non-student, pre-game tailgate parties?  We tend to have beer, wine and mixed drinks, and the police have never said anything.  We are old though -- mostly in the "procedure" stage in life per Billy Crystal -- so we don't get very wild. The only way to tell if someone's been binge drinking is if he/she nods off for a bit.  Think anything will change this year?


p.s., I'm still recovering from those few years where Stanford outsourced stadium security to some power-drunk, confrontation-happy, security outfit -- maybe 10-15 years ago.  The team was terrible, so very few showed up anyway, but those who did were treated like Cell Block D inmates by a mean-spirited security force who just ran amuck and ruined the experience for all...  Hoping our pendulum isn't swinging that way again...

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - CrazedZooChimp - 08-24-2016

Clearly the solution is alcohol education, by which I mean teaching people about the glories of craft beer and properly made cocktails. No one shotguns a Firestone DBA or slams five old fashioned's in a row.

(08-24-2016, 08:35 AM)Row80Critic link Wrote:Not to trivialize an important topic at all, but does anyone know if this will impact non-student, pre-game tailgate parties?  We tend to have beer, wine and mixed drinks, and the police have never said anything.  We are old though -- mostly in the "procedure" stage in life per Billy Crystal -- so we don't get very wild. The only way to tell if someone's been binge drinking is if he/she nods off for a bit.  Think anything will change this year?

No, the rules are only for undergrads. Alums and grad students are still allowed to drink bottles of bourbon in the middle of the quad, I believe. I am curious what will happen to the large tailgates that are clearly a mix of alums, grad students and undergrads where these laws would be impossible to enforce.

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - amartinsu13 - 08-24-2016

Quote:Especially during freshman year, in the row houses, and in the Greek scene.
The row houses would not have been included in this list in the mid-80s. Those were a decidedly non-party scene lifestyle back then.


Yeah things have definitely changed on that front.  Row houses are now seen as the cool place to live for people that don't live in a fraternity or sorority.  It's the most sought after housing, especially for your senior year.  (I was in Haus Mitt, my gf was in French House).  Also, there was a big partying culture at Haus Mitt my senior year, a lot different than my sophomore and junior year housing (FroSoCo and Branner).

Quote:2) ...  Actually enforce the alcohol rules that already existed.
What are those these days?
[Stanford rules - not state of California laws]

This is actually funny.  I read that, and I wasn't even sure what the current alcohol rules are on campus (before that post I made, I never really cared or thought about the alcohol policy on campus).  I never drank that much, so I never had to know.  I'd always be the guy asking friends on the way to a football tailgate "are we allowed to walk around on campus holding a beer?" (I think the answer is: yes if you're over 21, no if you're not). 

I asked my girlfriend if she knew what the current rules around alcohol were, and she said she didn't really know either.  She guessed: no drinking if under 21, no drinking during new student orientation week, "open door policy" in the dorms - if you are going to drink, do it with doors open so RAs know, if you're underage and walking around with alcohol outside (especially on a party night) you will get busted by the police and ticketed. 


Quote:1) Starting freshman year ... 
2) Starting at the beginning of each new year, for all students.  ...
3) Starting with the 'influencers' ...
Certainly the places to start. The tricky part, of course, is to start doing just what?

----------
By the way, does anyone happen to know if Stanford has released any internal studies concerning the degree of problems at Stanford and how those may have changed over the years?
[/quote]

I couldn't find a study, but I thought they existed.  I thought I heard of some studies coming out in recent years regarding on campus drinking. 

I did find a great summary of alcohol policy at Stanford written by the Daily a couple years ago: http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/04/06/alcohol-referendum-renews-longtime-campus-conversation/

Basically for 60 years, alcohol was completely banned on campus.  And as a result, a lot of the partying went off campus.  (see no evil, hear no evil). 

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - amartinsu13 - 08-24-2016

I thought the Daily had a good article on the new policy, and the comments are illuminating for how people are feeling on campus: http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/08/22/new-policy-restricts-hard-alcohol/

Quote:The policy change follows rumors of a ban spurred by a University meeting with resident fellows (RFs) last March, which was met by campus wide opposition. In a campus-wide referendum in April, 91.46 percent of voters opted against a hard alcohol ban, and approximately 1,720 people signed a petition against the proposal.

“We’re not necessarily looking at popularity, but rather functionality,” said Ralph Castro, director of the Office of Alcohol Policy and Education (OAPE), in an interview with The Daily.

According to Boardman, the new policy is the brainchild of a working group composed of administrators from the OAPE, Vaden Health Center and Residential Education (ResEd). The group convened early last school year to find potential solutions for binge drinking and what it identified as a social culture centered on alcohol consumption. Boardman said the group consulted with multiple voices, including undergraduates, RFs and resident assistants (RAs), while crafting the policy. Not all of them agreed with it — some RFs did not support a ban of any sort — but the administration decided to move forward.

I completely agree with poster who said that the administrators should tap into the excellent talent on campus in the psych/sociology departments to design a solution around changing the social norms around drinking.  I come from that type of background, so that's why my proposed solutions sounded like that.  I can think of a professor or two that I want to talk to right now about what they would do.

It sounds like a bunch of administrators, who don't know anything about behavior or attitude change, got together, "consulted" with the RAs/undergrads, and then completely disregarded what the RAs/undergrads wanted, and instituted their own idea of what would work. 

This is just another "cover our ass" policy in line with a lot of other recent policy decisions made by bureaucrats on campus in recent years.  I'm still clued in to undergrad via Facebook, and many students have been complaining about the administrators caring more about being sued than caring for students in recent years. 



Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - stupac2 - 08-24-2016

(08-24-2016, 09:42 AM)CrazedZooChimp link Wrote:Clearly the solution is alcohol education, by which I mean teaching people about the glories of craft beer and properly made cocktails. No one shotguns a Firestone DBA or slams five old fashioned's in a row.

Well, this isn't true. When Torpedo first came out in cans one of my friends made a point of shotgunning it. I've seen (or heard of) people chugging Black Tuesday (~19% ABV stout in a 750mL bottle), and most craft beer festivals end with plenty of drunken antics. The quaff may be more expensive, but people still love getting drunk.

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - Mick - 08-24-2016

My older son graduated from college the same month my younger son graduated from high school.  I asked my older son if he had any advice for the younger son.  He said "Yes.  Teach him to drink responsibly, in moderation, so he doesn't go crazy as a freshman."

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - CTcard - 08-24-2016

(08-24-2016, 10:30 AM)amartinsu13 link Wrote:This is just another "cover our ass" policy in line with a lot of other recent policy decisions made by bureaucrats on campus in recent years.  I'm still clued in to undergrad via Facebook, and many students have been complaining about the administrators caring more about being sued than caring for students in recent years.

There isn't really anything recent about it.

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - amartinsu13 - 08-24-2016

Ha, very true!

Brock Turner to be released 9/2 - TreesAndBirds - 08-25-2016

Protests planned. Plan to recall judge continues. Publicity re "Stanford swimmer" continues whenever a lenient sentence provided to college sex offender.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17390931

The timing may be  coincidental but university may have wanted  to do something before he was released.

Re: Deja vu all over again - stanfan - 08-25-2016

Campus was dry.  Kids went off campus to drink.  Kids killed in car wreck who went off campus to drink.  Alcohol back on campus on theory that it is better to walk drunk than drive drunk.

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - BostonCard - 08-25-2016

That was in the days before Uber.  Now most kids who go off campus to drink are sensible enough not to drive.

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - BostonCard - 08-26-2016

Speaking of the aforementioned judge, he is transferring out of criminal cases to civil ones.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Judge-who-sparked-outcry-in-rape-case-9185773.php

Re: Deja vu all over again - CTcard - 08-26-2016

(08-25-2016, 09:44 PM)stanfan link Wrote:Campus was dry.  Kids went off campus to drink.  Kids killed in car wreck who went off campus to drink.  Alcohol back on campus on theory that it is better to walk drunk than drive drunk.

When was this?

And how dry in practice?

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - stupac2 - 08-26-2016

(08-25-2016, 11:44 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:That was in the days before Uber.  Now most kids who go off campus to drink are sensible enough not to drive.

NFL players have a free car service that they can use whenever they want, plenty of money to use on uber or taxis, and you still see plenty of them every year driving drunk. If Stanford students had to leave campus to party, they'd drive drunk with frightening regularity.

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - JohnR34231 - 08-27-2016

Time magazine weighs in on the issue.

http://time.com/4463227/stanford-hard-liquor-ban/?xid=newsletter-brief

Re: Stanford Banning Hard Alcohol on Campus - JJJ - 08-31-2016

The Daily editorial board:

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/08/29/editorial-board-new-alcohol-policy-will-cause-more-harm-than-good/