DUI for Tiger - Printable Version
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Re: DUI for Tiger - fullmetal - 05-30-2017
Echoes of Prince's last dance with pain meds are brought to mind...big pharma's grip on the healthcare/pain industry is vast :(
If the drug interaction onset was sudden, then maybe there was nothing to be done. Maybe this all goes away, which I kind of hope it does, pending urinalysis results (and the 0.0 breathalyzer test).
Glad no one was hurt.
Re: DUI for Tiger - jacketree - 05-30-2017
(05-30-2017, 12:15 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:For what actions could Woods be penalized? The police report indicates that he blew 0.0 on the breath test.
For driving under the influence. It appears he was found, incoherent and unable to operate a motor vehicle, in the driver's seat with the engine running. That is textbook driving under the influence; in this case of legal drugs. I understand people don't always adhere to warning labels on the pills, but that's no excuse and Woods could be penalized if he was not supposed to be driving while taking the medication. Now if it really was an unexpected reaction to the medicine, and there are no prohibitions against driving while under the influence of said medicine, then this was an accident. People fall asleep at the wheel and endanger lives - I believe that can be punished; people have brain aneurysms and kill people and aren't punished (I think that's the case), so it is all going to depend on the actual circumstances of why he was unable to operate a motor vehicle, yet was operating one. I wouldn't be shocked if the charges are dropped since no one was hurt.
Re: DUI for Tiger - DC 86 - 05-30-2017
(05-30-2017, 12:25 PM)jacketree link Wrote:I understand people don't always adhere to warning labels on the pills, but that's no excuse.
Sometimes people adhere to the warning labels on their pills but are unaware of the effect of taking those pills in combination with other pills.
I'm not trying to make excuses for Tiger, for all we know he irresponsibly didn't adhere to his doctor's instructions, but it does happen that people naively mix contraindicated prescription and non-prescription medication with adverse results, including death.
Re: DUI for Tiger - 82lsju - 05-30-2017
(05-30-2017, 12:15 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=16934.msg194214#msg194214 date=1496168679]
Tiger will be justifiably penalized for his actions, but I am more sympathetic to a situation where he suffered genuinely unexpected consequences as opposed to a scenario where a reasonable person should be highly aware of what could transpire. If you are taking medication as indicated you don't assume that your judgment will become impaired, whereas if you are out drinking or using recreational drugs it's a certainty to at least some degree.
For what actions could Woods be penalized? The police report indicates that he blew 0.0 on the breath test.
[/quote]
In Florida, a person is guilty of a DUI if he or she is driving under the influence of any controlled substance to the extent that the person's normal facilities are impaired. Fla. Stat. Ann. § 316.293 (1)(a) (West 2010). Such normal facilities include, but are not limited to, the ability to see, hear, walk, talk, judge distances, drive an automobile, make judgments, act in emergencies, and in general, normally perform the many mental and physical activities of daily life. Id. § 316.1934 (1).
...
Penalties
First offense - fine of $500 to $1,000; jail for up to 6 months; license suspension of 180 days to 1 year; 50 hours community service (or possible buyout at $10/hour); 10 day vehicle impoundment/immobilization. Id. § 316.193(2)(a).
http://norml.org/legal/item/florida-drugged-driving
Re: DUI for Tiger - BostonCard - 05-31-2017
More details about his arrest, and some video:
http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/19507764/police-release-dashcam-video-dui-arrest-tiger-woods
Clearly he was impaired; this seems like a no brainer. Unexpected reactions to prescription drugs happen, and unlike alcohol where one can estimate the rough dose response curve based on quantity of alcohol consumed and time, unexpected reactions to prescription drugs do happen. That's why the best advice is always to avoid driving when taking any prescription medications that act on the central nervous system, including pain meds, sleeping pills, and especially, a combination of multiple medications. Effects are sometimes synergistic, and occasionally paradoxical. Unfortunately, public awareness about driving under the influence of prescription meds is nowhere near where it is for driving under the influence of alcohol, so, perhaps the public stigma is not there yet (as clearly indicated by this thread). But impaired driving is no less dangerous just because BAC was 0.0, and hopefully if nothing else, this event will raise awareness.
BC
Re: DUI for Tiger - burger - 06-01-2017
(05-30-2017, 12:33 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:Sometimes people adhere to the warning labels on their pills but are unaware of the effect of taking those pills in combination with other pills.Are there really combinations of drugs, none of which cause drowsiness individually but when taken together can cause you to fall asleep at the wheel in the middle of the road? I find that a little hard to believe given how many warnings OTC and Rx drugs come with nowadays.
I'm not trying to make excuses for Tiger, for all we know he irresponsibly didn't adhere to his doctor's instructions, but it does happen that people naively mix contraindicated prescription and non-prescription medication with adverse results, including death.
The only scenario in which Tiger is blameless here is if the drugs he took don't normally cause drowsiness. Otherwise, someone as smart as he is should know better, and someone as wealthy as he is has a plethora of alternatives for getting places without doing the driving himself.
Re: DUI for Tiger - dabigv13 - 06-01-2017
There is no way he is blameless here. He was on a narcotic pain medication, and shouldn't have been driving. Perhaps he added an allergy medicine or anxiety medication, both of which can also make you drowsy, and it made it worse.
Re: DUI for Tiger - Goose - 06-01-2017
Unfortunately, there is a bit of a Catch-22 associated with taking any drug that may affect your judgement. Once you have taken it, the idea "you should know better than to drive" may not even form in your mind. Given how out of it he seemed to be, I don't think he could even think straight at all. He needed to have somebody supervise his activities, but I suppose that he didn't expect that he would be that far gone. The warnings on the meds say "don't drive or operate ...". They don't say "Have somebody prevent you from ..." In this case, I think that is the only thing that would have worked. Now he knows.
Re: DUI for Tiger - Farm93 - 06-01-2017
It was 3AM, and at least according to Tiger he just got back to town on a flight from LA. In this case drowsiness causes drowsiness. Long flight, near midnight in the departure city time zone, a few medications, oh and likely enough back pain to not get much sleep/rest on the plane.
It all fits to create a very sleepy and drowsy person. I am not sure how much of my version actually is correct since I heard the explanation shifted a bit. Still, easy to imagine Tiger on some meds, then maybe taking other things to get some "sleep" on the plane. Hype and buzz of landing and arriving to his home airport may have amped him up after landing, but then in his own vehicle on those dark roads and ...zzzzzzzzzz! His ability to wake up might have been different than his normal post-flight abilities to drive around his community in the middle of the night after travel.
People fall asleep, and then die, on the road every day, so it happens. I don't think anyone plans on getting into a car to fall asleep while driving. He is lucky to be alive. From that perspective the PR impact is quite secondary really.
Even if he never makes another dollar he will have made more in sports than almost anyone else, so I am sure he will be OK. Assuming he stays away from driving while on these meds again.
Re: DUI for Tiger - murky - 06-01-2017
(06-01-2017, 08:48 AM)Goose link Wrote:Unfortunately, there is a bit of a Catch-22 associated with taking any drug that may affect your judgement. Once you have taken it, the idea "you should know better than to drive" may not even form in your mind. Given how out of it he seemed to be, I don't think he could even think straight at all. He needed to have somebody supervise his activities, but I suppose that he didn't expect that he would be that far gone. The warnings on the meds say "don't drive or operate ...". They don't say "Have somebody prevent you from ..." In this case, I think that is the only thing that would have worked. Now he knows.
Agreed
Re: DUI for Tiger - rastaman85 - 06-03-2017
A slightly different perspective. Those who have been quick to judge may wanna take a look: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/opinion/you-dont-know-tiger-woods.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
Re: DUI for Tiger - fullmetal - 06-05-2017
I don't feel like there have been a lot of anti-Tiger posts here, but the article makes a very good point about Tiger just growing older and we spectators creating a dramatic narrative around it to suit our entertainment tastes. Furthermore, golf is an individual sport, and Tiger has only ever been about Tiger. If he'd played a team sport for a team of our geographic or sentimental liking, perhaps we'd see him as one of our own, having gone through a draft process, being selected, and then making the cut to represent our locale or team. Instead, we see him from afar and draw similarly distant conclusions.
Re: DUI for Tiger - Mick - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 01:40 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:I don't feel like there have been a lot of anti-Tiger posts here, but the article makes a very good point about Tiger just growing older and we spectators creating a dramatic narrative around it to suit our entertainment tastes. Furthermore, golf is an individual sport, and Tiger has only ever been about Tiger. If he'd played a team sport for a team of our geographic or sentimental liking, perhaps we'd see him as one of our own, having gone through a draft process, being selected, and then making the cut to represent our locale or team. Instead, we see him from afar and draw similarly distant conclusions.
As for team competition, Tiger has played in seven Ryder Cups, with non-spectacular results during a period in which Europe dominted the USA. The Euros won five and lost two. Tiger excelled head to head (4-1-1), was indifferent in fourballs (5-6-0) and foursomes (4-7-1) for a career record of 13-14-2 when the USA was losing the average Ryder Cup by 15.15 to 12.85.
RYDER CUP EXPERIENCE
Years Played: 1997-99-2002-04-06-10
Total Matches: 29
Career Ryder Cup Record (W-L-H): 13-14-2
Singles (W-L-H): 4-1-1
Foursomes (W-L-H): 4-7-1
Fourballs (W-L-H): 5-6-0
Total Points Won: 14
Total Points Won Point %: .48
Re: DUI for Tiger - DC 86 - 08-14-2017
Toxicology report released today by the Sheriff's office. Five drugs found in his system:
Vicodin
Dilaudid
Ambien
Xanax
THC
Re: DUI for Tiger - Mick - 08-14-2017
(08-14-2017, 03:58 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:Toxicology report released today by the Sheriff's office. Five drugs found in his system:
Vicodin
Dilaudid
Ambien
Xanax
THC
Yikes...all those powerful drugs and pot on top of it.
Re: DUI for Tiger - BostonCard - 08-14-2017
Minor point. Vicodin is actually a combination of two medications, hydrocodone and acetaminophen (the active ingredient in Tylenol). They probably found hydrocodone (or its metabolites) in his system.
And given the interaction between all those drugs, it's no wonder he was impaired.
BC
Re: DUI for Tiger - burger - 08-14-2017
(08-14-2017, 03:58 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:Toxicology report released today by the Sheriff's office. Five drugs found in his system:Looks like we can rule out the "he accidentally took a combination of drugs that no one could have known would cause impairment" argument.
Vicodin
Dilaudid
Ambien
Xanax
THC
Re: DUI for Tiger - Spiny_Norman - 08-14-2017
(08-14-2017, 03:58 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:Toxicology report released today by the Sheriff's office. Five drugs found in his system:
Vicodin
Dilaudid
Ambien
Xanax
THC
But he would be eligible for the All Drug Olympics.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/update-all-drug-olympics/n9691?snl=1
Re: DUI for Tiger - dabigv13 - 08-14-2017
Dilaudid is a big gun painkiller. In some ways you have to feel bad for a guy whose body betrayed him so badly that he is on that stuff, though maybe it was postsurgical? I forgot if he had recently had surgery at the time of the incident.
Re: DUI for Tiger - gocard14 - 08-15-2017
(08-14-2017, 11:21 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Dilaudid is a big gun painkiller. In some ways you have to feel bad for a guy whose body betrayed him so badly that he is on that stuff, though maybe it was postsurgical? I forgot if he had recently had surgery at the time of the incident.
If these were all legally prescribed then the doctor was playing fast and loose with dangerous habit forming medications. In theory one could be on a single long acting opiate for chronic pain (a bad idea to begin with, but not uncommon), a second short acting opiate for breakthrough/post op pain, a benzodiazeine as needed for panic attacks or acute anxiety, and a non benzo gaba agonist like ambient for chronic insomnia plus thc for appetite or also for anxiety. If these were all prescribed (or all except the THC) then in addition to being incensed at his doctor I would feel incredibly sorry for tiger, as they paint the picture of someone struggling with chronic pain and anxiety.
More likely IMO is that he had been prescribed all the substances at one point in time, had leftovers and then went on a bender.