Didnt deserve to win - Printable Version
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Re: Didnt deserve to win - stupac2 - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:24 PM)Scott link Wrote:Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.
Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.
It sure hasn't been a problem most of the year, one of our losses was our second-best running game of the year. In that game we passed way too much.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - washingtonismoney - 11-04-2017
Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - cardcrimson - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:34 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.
Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?
Re: Didnt deserve to win - stupac2 - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:42 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17904.msg210700#msg210700 date=1509842091]
Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.
Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?
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Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?
Anyway, like I said, it was a close game and there are plenty of things you can point to and ask "What if?" But in my mind it comes back to us getting completely demolished up front to the point where a team that usually outperforms its opponent's rushing average by over a ypc actually underperformed it. This wasn't just "WSU's line is good", we got rocked. That we were still in it late is kind of amazing.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - Goose - 11-04-2017
We know from the CMAC experience that Shaw and the offensive brain trust are aware that it is legal to throw to the running backs. The fact they don't use Love in the passing game much probably has a reason behind it. It could be he isn't very good at it. I don't know. I am pretty sure that the coaches aren't doing it just out of spite/stupidity. It is also possible that the QBs have trouble throwing the screen/wheel routes. No coach is going to say "We don't throw to player X because...", but I strongly suspect there is a reason.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - washingtonismoney - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:52 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?
I think twice. The Coug d-line just swarmed so fast it didn't matter.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - BostonCard - 11-04-2017
There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.
BC
Re: Didnt deserve to win - Beeg_Dawg - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:24 PM)Scott link Wrote:Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.
Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.
It was like watching a replay of the beaver game. I thought our OL turned the corner a couple of games ago. But I'm the same guy who thought Chryst turned the corner against the Ducks.Â
Re: Didnt deserve to win - cardcrimson - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 06:06 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.Don't think three in the backfield, plus Costello, counts as an ogre. That said, when it happened, I commented on the game thread "now that's a great call" or something like that. Loved it. The only creative call I've seen in a couple of weeks.
BC
Two years ago, Shawgren found all sorts of ways to get the ball into CMac's hands. Why not with Love?
Re: Didnt deserve to win - stupac2 - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:53 PM)Goose link Wrote:We know from the CMAC experience that Shaw and the offensive brain trust are aware that it is legal to throw to the running backs. The fact they don't use Love in the passing game much probably has a reason behind it. It could be he isn't very good at it. I don't know. I am pretty sure that the coaches aren't doing it just out of spite/stupidity. It is also possible that the QBs have trouble throwing the screen/wheel routes. No coach is going to say "We don't throw to player X because...", but I strongly suspect there is a reason.
His first big play was a 90-something yard screen pass against UCF in 2015. Plus didn't he catch a nice wheel route against UNC last year? There's probably some reason we're not passing to him much, but he's shown he can catch the ball adequately.
(11-04-2017, 06:06 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:There was the play to Marx that went for 20 yards on third and short.
BC
If you were replying to me, was that with Love in the play? I thought since it was short yardage it was Scarlett.
(11-04-2017, 05:54 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210703#msg210703 date=1509843171]
Or, you know, run some playfakes or something. Did we use playaction with Love even once?
I think twice. The Coug d-line just swarmed so fast it didn't matter.
[/quote]
I guess it's hard to do anything when your front is getting whipped.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - Scott - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:27 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Scott link=topic=17904.msg210696#msg210696 date=1509841446]
Here's an idea, stop running the ball so often when your OL can't win in the run game. They weren't amazing or anything in pass protection but they weren't getting destroyed like they were on runs. I don't know why it took Shaw until the post-game press conference to figure this out, it's been a problem most of the year.
Sure the OL played poorly, but the coaching was worse.
It sure hasn't been a problem most of the year, one of our losses was our second-best running game of the year. In that game we passed way too much.
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You're just factually incorrect on that, they didn't have their second-best running game in either of their previous losses. Both of those games they had under 200 yards rushing. Maybe I overstated it when I said most of the year, but regardless it has been a problem before today.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - stupac2 - 11-04-2017
I literally just ran the numbers, relative to what the opponent normally gives up, @SDSU was our second-best running game of the year. We averaged 7.91 yards/rush, and they normally give up 3.8. That's a very strong performance, and we definitely should have been running more.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - winflop - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 03:55 PM)hurlburt88 link Wrote:Agreed. and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .
Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - cardcrimson - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 07:29 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=hurlburt88 link=topic=17904.msg210619#msg210619 date=1509836153]
Agreed. and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .
Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.
[/quote]
B I N G O.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - RuralFan - 11-04-2017
It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective. I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around. Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - JeffInCorvallis - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 05:42 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17904.msg210700#msg210700 date=1509842091]
Yes, we should definitely stop running the ball and (looks at notes) stop giving the ball to the record-setting running back.
Not at all. Get him the ball. Just don't do it five yards deep when were getting gashed up front. Get him the ball in space--slip him out of the backfield kinda thing. I don't think we threw a pass to Love all day, did we?
[/quote]
For the season, Love has one reception against SDSU, one against UCLA, and two at Utah. A total of 19 yards.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - Beeg_Dawg - 11-04-2017
(11-04-2017, 07:57 PM)RuralFan link Wrote:It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective. I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around. Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.
We lost because we have no offense. We have scored two offensive touchdowns in the last two games. I don't consider Costello's TD as one for the offense. The fumbleruskie was hardly a designed play.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - ChicagoCard - 11-05-2017
(11-04-2017, 10:36 PM)BeegDawg link Wrote:[quote author=RuralFan link=topic=17904.msg210744#msg210744 date=1509850668]
It seems to me we lost because the defense allowed Washington State to march 94 yards into the end zone to take the lead and we lost because with the exception of two plays, our offensive was ineffective. I'm not at all sure that Shaw calling more pass plays would have turned the game around. Our pass receivers weren't getting separation and our offensive line was porous.
We lost because we have no offense. We have scored two offensive touchdowns in the last two games. I don't consider Costello's TD as one for the offense. The fumbleruskie was hardly a designed play.
[/quote]
It was a lucky bounce but just prior to that Helfrich and Papadakis emphatically said an S.U. wideout got PI'd on near the end zone. Arcega-W I think.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - 81alum - 11-05-2017
I was rather encouraged by how Shaw took the loss in his presser. He acknowledged that the loss was "on him" because he had not "mixed it up" and called more first down passes, etc. He said they were sticking with the run because so often they were "one block" away but that that one block never came. In other words, he admitted he had been stubborn and that his stubbornness cost us the game.
https://twitter.com/stanfordfball?lang=en
I was a bit surprised when he said that we did as well running the ball as could be expected, given the quality of the run defense. I kept thinking that our O-line must need to make some sort of adjustments. I presume that the WSU D-line was not simply physically superior, but that they had some scheme that was getting them into the backfield and that we needed the right playcalls to punish their scheme--and Shaw did not call those plays, and he admitted as much.
Re: Didnt deserve to win - stupac2 - 11-05-2017
I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.