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Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 2006alum - 02-05-2018

(02-05-2018, 08:10 PM)81alum link Wrote:Let's just hope that C.al really is overrated because we have to play them twice and at this point we need to win out to have a chance at hosting.  Every time I watch them, however, I don't see how they have won as many games as they have.  I'm actually more worried about a crazy upset in the state of Washington in our last week than I am about C.al.

Agreed. As much as our record has been weakened by the PAC-12's rapid improvement from top to bottom, I actually think C.al has been hurt the most. I've never been super impressed, even during their final four run in Layshia Clarendon's senior year, which I felt was something of a fluke (though one I was quite happy about). Yet they were often by default the second or third best team in the Pac-12. Now, the same level of play guarantees no better than middle of the PAC.

All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 2006alum - 02-05-2018

(02-05-2018, 08:10 PM)81alum link Wrote:Let's just hope that C.al really is overrated because we have to play them twice and at this point we need to win out to have a chance at hosting.  Every time I watch them, however, I don't see how they have won as many games as they have.  I'm actually more worried about a crazy upset in the state of Washington in our last week than I am about C.al.

Agreed. As much as our record has been weakened by the PAC-12's rapid improvement from top to bottom, I actually think C.al has been hurt the most. I've never been super impressed, even during their final four run in Layshia Clarendon's senior year, which I felt was something of a fluke (though one I was quite happy about). Yet they were often by default the second or third best team in the Pac-12. Now, the same level of play guarantees no better than middle of the PAC.

All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 81alum - 02-05-2018

(02-05-2018, 08:28 PM)2006alum link Wrote:All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

The last three losses to C.al were: 

Feb 2015 when Reshanda Gray, Mikayla Cowling, and Mercedes Jefflo outscored Kaylee, Bonnie, Lili, Amber, and Karlie.  We beat them within that week, too.  Our top scorer that game:  McPhee off the bench with 24, one of her best efforts until recently, and in her freshman year. 

Jan 2013 when Chiney was "held" to 18 points, Toni Kokenis had 12, but Boyd, Brandon, Clarenden, and Lyles all were in the mid teens.

January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson, who was a very good guard who went to play for the WNBA, but was certainly no better than any of our players.  But she had a day like Britt had Sunday and scored 37 points, including 5/7 from three point range and 8/10 free throws.  As the game progressed Tara threw more and different players to try to stop her, but she was swishing jumpers even when closely guarded.  Sometimes players just get in the zone and are unstoppable, and we were the victims of Gray-Lawson on that day just as Oregon was victimized by McPhee on Sunday.  One month later we played them again and won handily, holding her to 4 points for the game. 



Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 81alum - 02-05-2018

(02-05-2018, 08:28 PM)2006alum link Wrote:All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

The last three losses to C.al were: 

Feb 2015 when Reshanda Gray, Mikayla Cowling, and Mercedes Jefflo outscored Kaylee, Bonnie, Lili, Amber, and Karlie.  We beat them within that week, too.  Our top scorer that game:  McPhee off the bench with 24, one of her best efforts until recently, and in her freshman year. 

Jan 2013 when Chiney was "held" to 18 points, Toni Kokenis had 12, but Boyd, Brandon, Clarenden, and Lyles all were in the mid teens.

January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson, who was a very good guard who went to play for the WNBA, but was certainly no better than any of our players.  But she had a day like Britt had Sunday and scored 37 points, including 5/7 from three point range and 8/10 free throws.  As the game progressed Tara threw more and different players to try to stop her, but she was swishing jumpers even when closely guarded.  Sometimes players just get in the zone and are unstoppable, and we were the victims of Gray-Lawson on that day just as Oregon was victimized by McPhee on Sunday.  One month later we played them again and won handily, holding her to 4 points for the game. 



Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - triangle2 - 02-05-2018

(02-05-2018, 10:17 PM)81alum link Wrote:[quote author=2006alum link=topic=18682.msg223210#msg223210 date=1517887688]
All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

The last three losses to C.al were: 

Feb 2015 when Reshanda Gray, Mikayla Cowling, and Mercedes Jefflo outscored Kaylee, Bonnie, Lili, Amber, and Karlie.  We beat them within that week, too.  Our top scorer that game:  McPhee off the bench with 24, one of her best efforts until recently, and in her freshman year. 

Jan 2013 when Chiney was "held" to 18 points, Toni Kokenis had 12, but Boyd, Brandon, Clarenden, and Lyles all were in the mid teens.

January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson, who was a very good guard who went to play for the WNBA, but was certainly no better than any of our players.  But she had a day like Britt had Sunday and scored 37 points, including 5/7 from three point range and 8/10 free throws.  As the game progressed Tara threw more and different players to try to stop her, but she was swishing jumpers even when closely guarded.  Sometimes players just get in the zone and are unstoppable, and we were the victims of Gray-Lawson on that day just as Oregon was victimized by McPhee on Sunday.  One month later we played them again and won handily, holding her to 4 points for the game.
[/quote]

There was, of course, the awful loss to C.al at home in 2007 when JJ Hones blew her ACL out in the first minute of the game. C.al did have a pretty good team that year with Devenei Hampton, Lauren Greif, et al. A decade later, I still can't get that game out of my head - Hones rolling around on the floor, the players (and coaches) seemingly in shock for the rest of the game, Anita Ortega giving Brooke Smith a technical,  Smith and Wiggins fouling out, Tara having to put in Clare Bodensteiner at the point for 21 minutes after Wiggins got in foul trouble...

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - triangle2 - 02-05-2018

(02-05-2018, 10:17 PM)81alum link Wrote:[quote author=2006alum link=topic=18682.msg223210#msg223210 date=1517887688]
All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

The last three losses to C.al were: 

Feb 2015 when Reshanda Gray, Mikayla Cowling, and Mercedes Jefflo outscored Kaylee, Bonnie, Lili, Amber, and Karlie.  We beat them within that week, too.  Our top scorer that game:  McPhee off the bench with 24, one of her best efforts until recently, and in her freshman year. 

Jan 2013 when Chiney was "held" to 18 points, Toni Kokenis had 12, but Boyd, Brandon, Clarenden, and Lyles all were in the mid teens.

January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson, who was a very good guard who went to play for the WNBA, but was certainly no better than any of our players.  But she had a day like Britt had Sunday and scored 37 points, including 5/7 from three point range and 8/10 free throws.  As the game progressed Tara threw more and different players to try to stop her, but she was swishing jumpers even when closely guarded.  Sometimes players just get in the zone and are unstoppable, and we were the victims of Gray-Lawson on that day just as Oregon was victimized by McPhee on Sunday.  One month later we played them again and won handily, holding her to 4 points for the game.
[/quote]

There was, of course, the awful loss to C.al at home in 2007 when JJ Hones blew her ACL out in the first minute of the game. C.al did have a pretty good team that year with Devenei Hampton, Lauren Greif, et al. A decade later, I still can't get that game out of my head - Hones rolling around on the floor, the players (and coaches) seemingly in shock for the rest of the game, Anita Ortega giving Brooke Smith a technical,  Smith and Wiggins fouling out, Tara having to put in Clare Bodensteiner at the point for 21 minutes after Wiggins got in foul trouble...

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - TheFarm07 - 02-06-2018

(02-05-2018, 10:17 PM)81alum link Wrote:[quote author=2006alum link=topic=18682.msg223210#msg223210 date=1517887688]
All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

The last three losses to C.al were: 

Feb 2015 when Reshanda Gray, Mikayla Cowling, and Mercedes Jefflo outscored Kaylee, Bonnie, Lili, Amber, and Karlie.  We beat them within that week, too.  Our top scorer that game:  McPhee off the bench with 24, one of her best efforts until recently, and in her freshman year. 

Jan 2013 when Chiney was "held" to 18 points, Toni Kokenis had 12, but Boyd, Brandon, Clarenden, and Lyles all were in the mid teens.

January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson, who was a very good guard who went to play for the WNBA, but was certainly no better than any of our players.  But she had a day like Britt had Sunday and scored 37 points, including 5/7 from three point range and 8/10 free throws.  As the game progressed Tara threw more and different players to try to stop her, but she was swishing jumpers even when closely guarded.  Sometimes players just get in the zone and are unstoppable, and we were the victims of Gray-Lawson on that day just as Oregon was victimized by McPhee on Sunday.  One month later we played them again and won handily, holding her to 4 points for the game.
[/quote]

You would think even with Gray-Lawson scoring at will that game, a team with as much firepower as we did would have scored enough to at least keep even with Ca.l.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - TheFarm07 - 02-06-2018

(02-05-2018, 10:17 PM)81alum link Wrote:[quote author=2006alum link=topic=18682.msg223210#msg223210 date=1517887688]
All of that said, C.al has also managed to sneak wins against us in the past with solid but not spectacular teams. I think they even took one or two from us during the Ogwumike era. So I would never count them out. And they may be a lot hungrier now that they've had two really rough away games.

The last three losses to C.al were: 

Feb 2015 when Reshanda Gray, Mikayla Cowling, and Mercedes Jefflo outscored Kaylee, Bonnie, Lili, Amber, and Karlie.  We beat them within that week, too.  Our top scorer that game:  McPhee off the bench with 24, one of her best efforts until recently, and in her freshman year. 

Jan 2013 when Chiney was "held" to 18 points, Toni Kokenis had 12, but Boyd, Brandon, Clarenden, and Lyles all were in the mid teens.

January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson, who was a very good guard who went to play for the WNBA, but was certainly no better than any of our players.  But she had a day like Britt had Sunday and scored 37 points, including 5/7 from three point range and 8/10 free throws.  As the game progressed Tara threw more and different players to try to stop her, but she was swishing jumpers even when closely guarded.  Sometimes players just get in the zone and are unstoppable, and we were the victims of Gray-Lawson on that day just as Oregon was victimized by McPhee on Sunday.  One month later we played them again and won handily, holding her to 4 points for the game.
[/quote]

You would think even with Gray-Lawson scoring at will that game, a team with as much firepower as we did would have scored enough to at least keep even with Ca.l.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - M T - 02-06-2018

As for the AP voters, well, they probably were at some other game and didn't bother setting their DVRs.  That's the only excuse I can think of for their somnabulent voting.  Stanford has played the last 4 games like a top-10 team.  If that's the true capability of the team (and I think it is), we'll be in the top-16 in the ballot that matters.


As for our future games, I'm glad we don't play Cal this week as they will have a fire lit under them.  I think they are nowhere as good as Stanford, but they have a player who could give any team trouble, and their coach is someone whose whole season may depend upon beating Stanford.  This is the PAC-12 and any team could have a McAfee for a night, but only one team has Tara.

IMO, it is possible that the PAC-12 conference tournament will have three top-10 teams (but no top 5).  I'd be surprised if we don't have three top-15 teams plus one or two more in the top-25.

As far as the PAC-12 goes, Cal & Stanford have had the hardest conference schedule so far, but certainly Stanford has the easiest upcoming schedule as opposed to Oregon, OSU, UCLA, and ASU, as they get to beat up on each other now.  One of Oregon and UCLA has to lose a game.  The key is Stanford winning out the regular season. If Stanford & UCLA win out, while Oregon loses only to UCLA, then I think Stanford is seeded first (1-0 against 3rd place vs 1-1).  The #2 vs #3 game will be a much tougher game than the still-tough #1 vs #4.

But, the other side of the tough-first-half coin is that those 4 teams will be finely honed going into the tournament, even if their record has suffered.  Stanford could lose its edge -- for instance, our passes could get sloppy.  Or, knowing Tara, we will use the games to work on those skills most needed for a deep run.  Will the players see that they have a chance to show their best abilities and so continue to be hungry and work as hard as they've been.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - M T - 02-06-2018

As for the AP voters, well, they probably were at some other game and didn't bother setting their DVRs.  That's the only excuse I can think of for their somnabulent voting.  Stanford has played the last 4 games like a top-10 team.  If that's the true capability of the team (and I think it is), we'll be in the top-16 in the ballot that matters.


As for our future games, I'm glad we don't play Cal this week as they will have a fire lit under them.  I think they are nowhere as good as Stanford, but they have a player who could give any team trouble, and their coach is someone whose whole season may depend upon beating Stanford.  This is the PAC-12 and any team could have a McAfee for a night, but only one team has Tara.

IMO, it is possible that the PAC-12 conference tournament will have three top-10 teams (but no top 5).  I'd be surprised if we don't have three top-15 teams plus one or two more in the top-25.

As far as the PAC-12 goes, Cal & Stanford have had the hardest conference schedule so far, but certainly Stanford has the easiest upcoming schedule as opposed to Oregon, OSU, UCLA, and ASU, as they get to beat up on each other now.  One of Oregon and UCLA has to lose a game.  The key is Stanford winning out the regular season. If Stanford & UCLA win out, while Oregon loses only to UCLA, then I think Stanford is seeded first (1-0 against 3rd place vs 1-1).  The #2 vs #3 game will be a much tougher game than the still-tough #1 vs #4.

But, the other side of the tough-first-half coin is that those 4 teams will be finely honed going into the tournament, even if their record has suffered.  Stanford could lose its edge -- for instance, our passes could get sloppy.  Or, knowing Tara, we will use the games to work on those skills most needed for a deep run.  Will the players see that they have a chance to show their best abilities and so continue to be hungry and work as hard as they've been.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 81alum - 02-06-2018

We are fortunate that after the emotional weekend in Oregon, we are coming home, and we have two relatively weak teams.  Of course all of that could inspire overconfidence and lead to another Western Illinois, but somehow I think our earlier adversity will be enough to keep us on track and focused on these two. 

Then C al comes to Maples.  Whoever wins the first game against C al will lose some of its edge for the second game.  It always seems to happen with this rotten schedule that has rivals playing each other twice within 4 days.  I would think we would be favored in that first game, and that leaves me even more worried about the second game at C.al.  The first game, however, could be Britt and Kaylee's last at Maples, and there is no knowing how those emotions might manifest.  But let's say we win that first game, then we go on the road to play C.al, that will have "scouted" us a few days earlier by playing us.  It will be at their place on their senior day, with Cowling and Davidson playing their last game in front of the home crowd.  They could play an inspired game.

Then the final week's road trip to Seattle and Pullman has me terrified, especially if we win our next four and beat C.al twice.  After getting through Oregon, then (possibly) sweeping through Utah and Colorado and C.al, and looking ahead to the two tournaments barely around the corner, it would be oh so easy to lose the emotional edge.  Washington and WSU especially would love to cap disappointing seasons by knocking off the Pac 12 leader.  WSU could redeem its whole season if they beat Stanford for the first time in their history on their senior day, and they do have many highly talented players.  In their first game against us, they settled down after a poor first half and they outscored us the rest of the way, including in the 3rd quarter when all our starters were in.  At home they could play like they did in the 3rd quarter for a whole game, and we would be in trouble.

In short, while I think we ought to be favored in each remaining game, the odds that we lose one more game are still considerable.  A lot will depend on whether this team can figure out how to sustain itself and be emotionally charged for every remaining quarter.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 81alum - 02-06-2018

We are fortunate that after the emotional weekend in Oregon, we are coming home, and we have two relatively weak teams.  Of course all of that could inspire overconfidence and lead to another Western Illinois, but somehow I think our earlier adversity will be enough to keep us on track and focused on these two. 

Then C al comes to Maples.  Whoever wins the first game against C al will lose some of its edge for the second game.  It always seems to happen with this rotten schedule that has rivals playing each other twice within 4 days.  I would think we would be favored in that first game, and that leaves me even more worried about the second game at C.al.  The first game, however, could be Britt and Kaylee's last at Maples, and there is no knowing how those emotions might manifest.  But let's say we win that first game, then we go on the road to play C.al, that will have "scouted" us a few days earlier by playing us.  It will be at their place on their senior day, with Cowling and Davidson playing their last game in front of the home crowd.  They could play an inspired game.

Then the final week's road trip to Seattle and Pullman has me terrified, especially if we win our next four and beat C.al twice.  After getting through Oregon, then (possibly) sweeping through Utah and Colorado and C.al, and looking ahead to the two tournaments barely around the corner, it would be oh so easy to lose the emotional edge.  Washington and WSU especially would love to cap disappointing seasons by knocking off the Pac 12 leader.  WSU could redeem its whole season if they beat Stanford for the first time in their history on their senior day, and they do have many highly talented players.  In their first game against us, they settled down after a poor first half and they outscored us the rest of the way, including in the 3rd quarter when all our starters were in.  At home they could play like they did in the 3rd quarter for a whole game, and we would be in trouble.

In short, while I think we ought to be favored in each remaining game, the odds that we lose one more game are still considerable.  A lot will depend on whether this team can figure out how to sustain itself and be emotionally charged for every remaining quarter.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - crackpot - 02-06-2018

(02-05-2018, 10:17 PM)81alum link Wrote:January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson
ןɐɔ also had Michael Price.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - crackpot - 02-06-2018

(02-05-2018, 10:17 PM)81alum link Wrote:January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson
ןɐɔ also had Michael Price.

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 81alum - 02-07-2018

(02-06-2018, 05:54 PM)crackpot link Wrote:[quote author=81alum link=topic=18682.msg223215#msg223215 date=1517894278]
January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson
ןɐɔ also had Michael Price.
[/quote]
The bad calls had faded from memory--the human brain tries to protect us from such ordeals!  I got out the old boxscore and see we were ahead by one with 1:09 to go when a foul was called on Jillian, giving Gray-Lawson two free throws that put them ahead to stay.  Was that a particularly infamous Price call?

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - 81alum - 02-07-2018

(02-06-2018, 05:54 PM)crackpot link Wrote:[quote author=81alum link=topic=18682.msg223215#msg223215 date=1517894278]
January 2009, the one I remember the best (as in seared in my mind painfully.)  We lost 57-54 at C.al.  One of our strongest teams with Pederson, Nneka, Pohlen, Appel, Gold-Onwude.  But C.al had Alexis Gray-Lawson
ןɐɔ also had Michael Price.
[/quote]
The bad calls had faded from memory--the human brain tries to protect us from such ordeals!  I got out the old boxscore and see we were ahead by one with 1:09 to go when a foul was called on Jillian, giving Gray-Lawson two free throws that put them ahead to stay.  Was that a particularly infamous Price call?

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - BobK - 02-07-2018

Great Jenna Brown story

http://usatodayhss.com/2018/stanford-commit-jenna-brown-is-ready-for-mcdonalds-all-american-honor

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - BobK - 02-07-2018

Great Jenna Brown story

http://usatodayhss.com/2018/stanford-commit-jenna-brown-is-ready-for-mcdonalds-all-american-honor

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - crackpot - 02-07-2018

(02-07-2018, 06:00 AM)81alum link Wrote:Was that a particularly infamous Price call?

TBH, I don't remember, but that is one of 3 or 4 games where I was just absolutely beside myself over the officials (1997 seminfinal; some late 90s game where Missy got on my radar; this one; and the TAMU game).

Re: WBB: AP Top 25 - crackpot - 02-07-2018

(02-07-2018, 06:00 AM)81alum link Wrote:Was that a particularly infamous Price call?

TBH, I don't remember, but that is one of 3 or 4 games where I was just absolutely beside myself over the officials (1997 seminfinal; some late 90s game where Missy got on my radar; this one; and the TAMU game).