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Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - Printable Version

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Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - winflop - 02-06-2018

(02-06-2018, 06:30 PM)burger link Wrote:McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - winflop - 02-06-2018

(02-06-2018, 06:30 PM)burger link Wrote:McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - washingtonismoney - 02-06-2018

It seems Luck might require additional surgery: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/961059785561997312

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - washingtonismoney - 02-06-2018

It seems Luck might require additional surgery: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/961059785561997312

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - Phogge - 02-06-2018

Shaw to the Colts.

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - Phogge - 02-06-2018

Shaw to the Colts.

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - lex24 - 02-06-2018

I actually hope Luck retires. I love watching him play. But he’s taken enough of a beating. I prefer to remember him as he was at Stanford.

If he does retire, my wish for the Colts is 2-14. Forever.

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - lex24 - 02-06-2018

I actually hope Luck retires. I love watching him play. But he’s taken enough of a beating. I prefer to remember him as he was at Stanford.

If he does retire, my wish for the Colts is 2-14. Forever.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - PVTree - 02-07-2018

(02-06-2018, 06:04 PM)Langdude link Wrote:Of course, this is all just theater to set up the Harbaugh hire.

-m.

Exactly the first thing that popped up on my mind when I heard the news. How long before Harballs is given a ton of money to coach the Colts?

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - PVTree - 02-07-2018

(02-06-2018, 06:04 PM)Langdude link Wrote:Of course, this is all just theater to set up the Harbaugh hire.

-m.

Exactly the first thing that popped up on my mind when I heard the news. How long before Harballs is given a ton of money to coach the Colts?

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - ColoradoTree - 02-07-2018

Based on the reporting that has come out, it seems clear that this was the sequence of events:

1. McDaniels had a handshake deal for weeks. He drove the bus in terms of pushing Ballard to make offers to the defensive coordinator he wanted (Eberflus from Dallas) and a couple other assistant coaches that signed contracts with Indianapolis because they spoke to McDaniels and were excited about working under him.
2. McDaniels and the Colts finalized the agreement on Monday, he and Colts GM Chris Ballard spent 90 minutes rehashing and finalizing what the rest of the Colts' coaching staff would look like, including the Patriots' special teams coordinator and assistant QB coach, who were going to make the move with McDaniels.  McDaniels verbally agreed to terms and told Ballard he'd be there tomorrow.  (The Colts' official statement and other reporting has confirmed that he agreed to terms.  Sure, McDaniels might deny that now in order to try and avoid looking like a snake, but Ballard doesn't put out an "agreed to terms" statement if there wasn't agreement on the terms of the contract he'd be signing the following day.)
3. McDaniels was working with an Indianapolis realtor and was finalizing an offer on a house.
4. McDaniels went into the Patriots' offices yesterday to clean out his office and say his goodbyes before flying that afternoon to Indianapolis (this according to Patriots employees) to sign his deal and have the press conference.  New England said *something* to him that caused him to change his mind, and apparently offered him a boatload of money to stay.  Belichick has said he's coaching in 2018, so presumably it's a wink-wink coach-in-waiting deal, because you don't torch your reputation around the league unless you have some serious assurances. 
5. McDaniels did not call the coaches he had uproot their lives and move to Indianapolis until it was reported in the media that he was staying.  Those men, who had moved their families and signed new contracts based on Josh's promise that he was going to be their head coach, found out from the media.  He called them later, apparently, but only hours after they'd found out through the media and from Ballard calling them. 

There is nothing about this that says the Colts jumped the gun (and it would be Ballard, who is (was) friends with McDaniels and who shares an agent with him, who would have been jumping the gun and directing the announcement).  This is how head coaching hires are done.  You have informal arrangements with coaches and because the league rules don't allow you to formally sign contracts until a team's season is over, you're forced to negotiate informally, on the strength of someone's word, and line up a staff, all without having contracts in place.  It's a dumb system, to be sure, but it's the system in which teams have to operate, so they can have a staff lined up within a few days after they're eligible to sign their head coach. 

To say, "well, they didn't have pen on paper" is to ignore the realities of how these kinds of hires are conducted.  This is embarrassing for the Colts in that it blew up, and it's entirely possible Luck's shoulder isn't right, but the way this went down is 100% on McDaniels.  Teams won't forget how he treated the Colts in this process, and I'd be shocked if he's the head coach anywhere but New England ever again.  How could you trust him? 

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - ColoradoTree - 02-07-2018

Based on the reporting that has come out, it seems clear that this was the sequence of events:

1. McDaniels had a handshake deal for weeks. He drove the bus in terms of pushing Ballard to make offers to the defensive coordinator he wanted (Eberflus from Dallas) and a couple other assistant coaches that signed contracts with Indianapolis because they spoke to McDaniels and were excited about working under him.
2. McDaniels and the Colts finalized the agreement on Monday, he and Colts GM Chris Ballard spent 90 minutes rehashing and finalizing what the rest of the Colts' coaching staff would look like, including the Patriots' special teams coordinator and assistant QB coach, who were going to make the move with McDaniels.  McDaniels verbally agreed to terms and told Ballard he'd be there tomorrow.  (The Colts' official statement and other reporting has confirmed that he agreed to terms.  Sure, McDaniels might deny that now in order to try and avoid looking like a snake, but Ballard doesn't put out an "agreed to terms" statement if there wasn't agreement on the terms of the contract he'd be signing the following day.)
3. McDaniels was working with an Indianapolis realtor and was finalizing an offer on a house.
4. McDaniels went into the Patriots' offices yesterday to clean out his office and say his goodbyes before flying that afternoon to Indianapolis (this according to Patriots employees) to sign his deal and have the press conference.  New England said *something* to him that caused him to change his mind, and apparently offered him a boatload of money to stay.  Belichick has said he's coaching in 2018, so presumably it's a wink-wink coach-in-waiting deal, because you don't torch your reputation around the league unless you have some serious assurances. 
5. McDaniels did not call the coaches he had uproot their lives and move to Indianapolis until it was reported in the media that he was staying.  Those men, who had moved their families and signed new contracts based on Josh's promise that he was going to be their head coach, found out from the media.  He called them later, apparently, but only hours after they'd found out through the media and from Ballard calling them. 

There is nothing about this that says the Colts jumped the gun (and it would be Ballard, who is (was) friends with McDaniels and who shares an agent with him, who would have been jumping the gun and directing the announcement).  This is how head coaching hires are done.  You have informal arrangements with coaches and because the league rules don't allow you to formally sign contracts until a team's season is over, you're forced to negotiate informally, on the strength of someone's word, and line up a staff, all without having contracts in place.  It's a dumb system, to be sure, but it's the system in which teams have to operate, so they can have a staff lined up within a few days after they're eligible to sign their head coach. 

To say, "well, they didn't have pen on paper" is to ignore the realities of how these kinds of hires are conducted.  This is embarrassing for the Colts in that it blew up, and it's entirely possible Luck's shoulder isn't right, but the way this went down is 100% on McDaniels.  Teams won't forget how he treated the Colts in this process, and I'd be shocked if he's the head coach anywhere but New England ever again.  How could you trust him? 

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - cardcrimson - 02-07-2018

McDaniels screwed the Colts and his staff. That said, if he has another great year or two on offense, memories about this will fade very quickly.

Re: Josh McDaniels [not] hired as Indi's coach - cardcrimson - 02-07-2018

McDaniels screwed the Colts and his staff. That said, if he has another great year or two on offense, memories about this will fade very quickly.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - DC 86 - 02-07-2018

(02-06-2018, 08:54 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=burger link=topic=18689.msg223299#msg223299 date=1517967029]
McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.
[/quote]

Usually I would be the first one to dump on Irsay, but McDaniels convinced four assistant coaches around the league to quit their jobs to join him in Indianapolis, this is on him.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - DC 86 - 02-07-2018

(02-06-2018, 08:54 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=burger link=topic=18689.msg223299#msg223299 date=1517967029]
McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.
[/quote]

Usually I would be the first one to dump on Irsay, but McDaniels convinced four assistant coaches around the league to quit their jobs to join him in Indianapolis, this is on him.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - winflop - 02-07-2018

(02-07-2018, 11:23 AM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=winflop link=topic=18689.msg223308#msg223308 date=1517975655]
[quote author=burger link=topic=18689.msg223299#msg223299 date=1517967029]
McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.
[/quote]

Usually I would be the first one to dump on Irsay, but McDaniels convinced four assistant coaches around the league to quit their jobs to join him in Indianapolis, this is on him.
[/quote]

Clearly more facts have come out than I saw in the initial reporting and I agree this is on McDaniels not Irsay.

But if I'm one of those assistants I'm looking for an off ramp. I know they have signed contracts but if Irsay can find a way to not pay them he will.

And if I'm Luck I'm demanding a trade. Sticking a new HC with assistants he may or may not know/work well with is a recipe for more disasters.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - winflop - 02-07-2018

(02-07-2018, 11:23 AM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=winflop link=topic=18689.msg223308#msg223308 date=1517975655]
[quote author=burger link=topic=18689.msg223299#msg223299 date=1517967029]
McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.
[/quote]

Usually I would be the first one to dump on Irsay, but McDaniels convinced four assistant coaches around the league to quit their jobs to join him in Indianapolis, this is on him.
[/quote]

Clearly more facts have come out than I saw in the initial reporting and I agree this is on McDaniels not Irsay.

But if I'm one of those assistants I'm looking for an off ramp. I know they have signed contracts but if Irsay can find a way to not pay them he will.

And if I'm Luck I'm demanding a trade. Sticking a new HC with assistants he may or may not know/work well with is a recipe for more disasters.

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - ColoradoTree - 02-07-2018

(02-07-2018, 01:11 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=18689.msg223354#msg223354 date=1518027797]
[quote author=winflop link=topic=18689.msg223308#msg223308 date=1517975655]
[quote author=burger link=topic=18689.msg223299#msg223299 date=1517967029]
McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.
[/quote]

Usually I would be the first one to dump on Irsay, but McDaniels convinced four assistant coaches around the league to quit their jobs to join him in Indianapolis, this is on him.
[/quote]

Clearly more facts have come out than I saw in the initial reporting and I agree this is on McDaniels not Irsay.

But if I'm one of those assistants I'm looking for an off ramp. I know they have signed contracts but if Irsay can find a way to not pay them he will.

And if I'm Luck I'm demanding a trade. Sticking a new HC with assistants he may or may not know/work well with is a recipe for more disasters.
[/quote]

The Colts have told media that they'll honor the contracts of the assistants that have been hired, so I don't think that's a concern right now.  It's an awful situation for all concerned, and if you're a new head coach, it's wild you wouldn't be able to assemble your own staff fully, but at the same time, who else are you going to get for those jobs at this late date?  Coaching rosters have been filled out, and teams can block an assistant from interviewing for lateral moves.  So every coordinator hire would be a position coach somewhere, or it would be someone who no one else in the league wanted to sign.  I mean, if the new HC doesn't have a great relationship with the assistants that the team hired in consultation with McDaniels, then they can move on from them next year.  But those guys get this year, at least, if they want it. Of course, I can absolutely understand them wanting to move on to a fresh situation right now, and it's not ideal at all for the new head coach to be stuck with these guys.  But unless those guys want to sit out a year of coaching, there might not be places to go right now. 

Why the animosity toward Irsay and suggesting he wouldn't pay them?  From what I've seen, he was loyal to a fault with Pagano and with Grigson, and his inclination seems to be to keep guys too long rather than let them go too soon. 

Re: Josh McDaniels hired as Indi's coach - ColoradoTree - 02-07-2018

(02-07-2018, 01:11 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=18689.msg223354#msg223354 date=1518027797]
[quote author=winflop link=topic=18689.msg223308#msg223308 date=1517975655]
[quote author=burger link=topic=18689.msg223299#msg223299 date=1517967029]
McDaniels backs out after verbally agreeing to the job.  Stay classy, Patriots!

(Explanation for those who don't get the reference: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/ )

It's not clear that McDaniels ever gave that verbal commitment, per ESPN. My money's on Irsay jumping the gun.
[/quote]

Usually I would be the first one to dump on Irsay, but McDaniels convinced four assistant coaches around the league to quit their jobs to join him in Indianapolis, this is on him.
[/quote]

Clearly more facts have come out than I saw in the initial reporting and I agree this is on McDaniels not Irsay.

But if I'm one of those assistants I'm looking for an off ramp. I know they have signed contracts but if Irsay can find a way to not pay them he will.

And if I'm Luck I'm demanding a trade. Sticking a new HC with assistants he may or may not know/work well with is a recipe for more disasters.
[/quote]

The Colts have told media that they'll honor the contracts of the assistants that have been hired, so I don't think that's a concern right now.  It's an awful situation for all concerned, and if you're a new head coach, it's wild you wouldn't be able to assemble your own staff fully, but at the same time, who else are you going to get for those jobs at this late date?  Coaching rosters have been filled out, and teams can block an assistant from interviewing for lateral moves.  So every coordinator hire would be a position coach somewhere, or it would be someone who no one else in the league wanted to sign.  I mean, if the new HC doesn't have a great relationship with the assistants that the team hired in consultation with McDaniels, then they can move on from them next year.  But those guys get this year, at least, if they want it. Of course, I can absolutely understand them wanting to move on to a fresh situation right now, and it's not ideal at all for the new head coach to be stuck with these guys.  But unless those guys want to sit out a year of coaching, there might not be places to go right now. 

Why the animosity toward Irsay and suggesting he wouldn't pay them?  From what I've seen, he was loyal to a fault with Pagano and with Grigson, and his inclination seems to be to keep guys too long rather than let them go too soon.Â