The CardBoard
WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 (/thread-15746.html)

Pages: 1 2

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 2:30 Saturday - M T - 03-17-2018

Look at  http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401026159
for the flow of the score and the shot chart.

Offensively, our score climbed steadily throughout the game.  I guess that means they really never found a way to stop us, and we just kept doing what we did. IMO, the last half of the third did them in.  The score by quarters was +4, +7. +6, -3.

From the shot chart, we only made baskets from close-in in the paint, or at the 3pt line.  We did try a few others, but none went in.

While we were in a strong position late, I expect every Stanford fan was thinking of the last men's game.

(03-17-2018, 05:28 PM)TheFarm07 link Wrote:  Gonzaga shot 41% from the floor, which is pretty mediocre for us in terms of FG percentage defense.
The AP's take on that is  "Stanford beat cold-shooting Gonzaga".

Congrats to all our team.  A good win fueled by an offense that by Stanford standards was really good, and backed by a defense by everyone else's standards that was quite good.  I'm glad the bench got (mostly?) emptied at the end.

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - JJJ - 03-17-2018

The starters (minus Kaylee who’d fouled out) were in at <10 seconds left when the mass substitution took place during a review of Stockton’s hard foul (ruled a common foul). (I think.) Coffee, Jerome, Moschkau, Romano And I don’t recall who else.

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - 81alum - 03-17-2018

I posted the write-up.  Hightlights:  we shot 51%, had a +15 rebounding advantage, and had an astounding 8 blocks. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - TheFarm07 - 03-17-2018

(03-17-2018, 06:25 PM)JJJ link Wrote:  The starters (minus Kaylee who’d fouled out) were in at <10 seconds left when the mass substitution took place during a review of Stockton’s hard foul (ruled a common foul). (I think.) Coffee, Jerome, Moschkau, Romano And I don’t recall who else.

I believe it was Brewer.

I'm sure Tara wanted to empty the bench with more than 10 seconds in the game. Florida Gulf Coast will be tricky. It will be interesting if we go small to match up with them. The ESPN article mentioned and I confirmed looking at their roster page, no one is above 6 feet tall. Or do we go big and overwhelm them with size?

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - 81alum - 03-17-2018

(03-17-2018, 07:11 PM)TheFarm07 link Wrote:  [quote author=JJJ link=topic=18880.msg226124#msg226124 date=1521336357]
The starters (minus Kaylee who’d fouled out) were in at <10 seconds left when the mass substitution took place during a review of Stockton’s hard foul (ruled a common foul). (I think.) Coffee, Jerome, Moschkau, Romano And I don’t recall who else.

I believe it was Brewer.

I'm sure Tara wanted to empty the bench with more than 10 seconds in the game. Florida Gulf Coast will be tricky. It will be interesting if we go small to match up with them. The ESPN article mentioned and I confirmed looking at their roster page, no one is above 6 feet tall. Or do we go big and overwhelm them with size?
[/quote]
An excellent question.  After watching them take down Missouri I was impressed.  They are famous for their three point shooting apparently but they won largely with China Dow--a 5'8" bench player -- zipping around flat footed Missouri defenders for layups.  They did hit 7/17 treys but they made 18/34 twos, mostly layups and very short jumpers.  They did that against a team  that looked like it averaged 4 inches taller on a player to player basis.  I kept thinking they would fade as the bigger Missouri team would assert itself.  The tallest FGCU players are 5'11" and China Dow is 5'8".  China is hefty for her height but has a lightning quick first step.  I think Carrington would be well suited to guard her--but Dow is not even a starter. 

I see why Missouri was caught by surprise.  FGCU has 5 players who have each hit 50 treys this year, with two shooting above 40% and all shooting above 35%.  Virtually ALL of them are serious threats to shoot the three.  Missouri was so focused on guarding the perimeter that they left open lanes to the basket, over and over and over.  Plus the Missouri players were simply not nearly as quick as they needed to be.  Despite a humongous size advantage for Missouri, this game was never really in doubt.  It was not a fluke.

What FGCU did to Missouri is, sadly, very similar to what Western Illinois did to us.  We were so focused on stopping their three point shooting that we made Clemens into a national player-of-the-week by letting her drive through open lanes to the rim, or for short pull ups.  We may find out how much we learned from that loss, soon.

We need to have players who can stay in front of their marks.  My guess is that Tara starts out normally but I would not be surprised to see Carrington get sent in in a hurry.  I think a lineup of 5 Smith 4 McPhee 3 Carrington 2 Williams 1 Sniezek is not impossible if needed. 

Smith and Johnson can guard the perimeter effectively--the question is whether they can stay in front of the FGCU players if they cut around them to the basket as happened today against Missouri.

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - Spiny_Norman - 03-17-2018

Game time vs. FGCU is set for 6 pm Monday.  Televised on ESPN2.  And the men will be on ESPNU at 4 pm Monday vs. Oklahoma State.

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - UltimateCard - 03-17-2018

(03-17-2018, 07:48 PM)81alum link Wrote:  [quote author=TheFarm07 link=topic=18880.msg226127#msg226127 date=1521339119]
[quote author=JJJ link=topic=18880.msg226124#msg226124 date=1521336357]
The starters (minus Kaylee who’d fouled out) were in at <10 seconds left when the mass substitution took place during a review of Stockton’s hard foul (ruled a common foul). (I think.) Coffee, Jerome, Moschkau, Romano And I don’t recall who else.

I believe it was Brewer.

I'm sure Tara wanted to empty the bench with more than 10 seconds in the game. Florida Gulf Coast will be tricky. It will be interesting if we go small to match up with them. The ESPN article mentioned and I confirmed looking at their roster page, no one is above 6 feet tall. Or do we go big and overwhelm them with size?
[/quote]
An excellent question.  After watching them take down Missouri I was impressed.  They are famous for their three point shooting apparently but they won largely with China Dow--a 5'8" bench player -- zipping around flat footed Missouri defenders for layups.  They did hit 7/17 treys but they made 18/34 twos, mostly layups and very short jumpers.  They did that against a team  that looked like it averaged 4 inches taller on a player to player basis.  I kept thinking they would fade as the bigger Missouri team would assert itself.  The tallest FGCU players are 5'11" and China Dow is 5'8".  China is hefty for her height but has a lightning quick first step.  I think Carrington would be well suited to guard her--but Dow is not even a starter. 

I see why Missouri was caught by surprise.  FGCU has 5 players who have each hit 50 treys this year, with two shooting above 40% and all shooting above 35%.  Virtually ALL of them are serious threats to shoot the three.  Missouri was so focused on guarding the perimeter that they left open lanes to the basket, over and over and over.  Plus the Missouri players were simply not nearly as quick as they needed to be.  Despite a humongous size advantage for Missouri, this game was never really in doubt.  It was not a fluke.

What FGCU did to Missouri is, sadly, very similar to what Western Illinois did to us.  We were so focused on stopping their three point shooting that we made Clemens into a national player-of-the-week by letting her drive through open lanes to the rim, or for short pull ups.  We may find out how much we learned from that loss, soon.

We need to have players who can stay in front of their marks.  My guess is that Tara starts out normally but I would not be surprised to see Carrington get sent in in a hurry.  I think a lineup of 5 Smith 4 McPhee 3 Carrington 2 Williams 1 Sniezek is not impossible if needed. 

Smith and Johnson can guard the perimeter effectively--the question is whether they can stay in front of the FGCU players if they cut around them to the basket as happened today against Missouri.
[/quote]

Two of Mizzou’s bigs fouled out well before the end of the game. Will our shot blockers do better?

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - TheFarm07 - 03-17-2018

(03-17-2018, 07:48 PM)81alum link Wrote:  [quote author=TheFarm07 link=topic=18880.msg226127#msg226127 date=1521339119]
[quote author=JJJ link=topic=18880.msg226124#msg226124 date=1521336357]
The starters (minus Kaylee who’d fouled out) were in at <10 seconds left when the mass substitution took place during a review of Stockton’s hard foul (ruled a common foul). (I think.) Coffee, Jerome, Moschkau, Romano And I don’t recall who else.

I believe it was Brewer.

I'm sure Tara wanted to empty the bench with more than 10 seconds in the game. Florida Gulf Coast will be tricky. It will be interesting if we go small to match up with them. The ESPN article mentioned and I confirmed looking at their roster page, no one is above 6 feet tall. Or do we go big and overwhelm them with size?
[/quote]
An excellent question.  After watching them take down Missouri I was impressed.  They are famous for their three point shooting apparently but they won largely with China Dow--a 5'8" bench player -- zipping around flat footed Missouri defenders for layups.  They did hit 7/17 treys but they made 18/34 twos, mostly layups and very short jumpers.  They did that against a team  that looked like it averaged 4 inches taller on a player to player basis.  I kept thinking they would fade as the bigger Missouri team would assert itself.  The tallest FGCU players are 5'11" and China Dow is 5'8".  China is hefty for her height but has a lightning quick first step.  I think Carrington would be well suited to guard her--but Dow is not even a starter. 

I see why Missouri was caught by surprise.  FGCU has 5 players who have each hit 50 treys this year, with two shooting above 40% and all shooting above 35%.  Virtually ALL of them are serious threats to shoot the three.  Missouri was so focused on guarding the perimeter that they left open lanes to the basket, over and over and over.  Plus the Missouri players were simply not nearly as quick as they needed to be.  Despite a humongous size advantage for Missouri, this game was never really in doubt.  It was not a fluke.

What FGCU did to Missouri is, sadly, very similar to what Western Illinois did to us.  We were so focused on stopping their three point shooting that we made Clemens into a national player-of-the-week by letting her drive through open lanes to the rim, or for short pull ups.  We may find out how much we learned from that loss, soon.

We need to have players who can stay in front of their marks.  My guess is that Tara starts out normally but I would not be surprised to see Carrington get sent in in a hurry.  I think a lineup of 5 Smith 4 McPhee 3 Carrington 2 Williams 1 Sniezek is not impossible if needed. 

Smith and Johnson can guard the perimeter effectively--the question is whether they can stay in front of the FGCU players if they cut around them to the basket as happened today against Missouri.
[/quote]

On the other end of the court, FGCU let Cunningham, Missouri's best player, go off with 35 pts, including 14/16 from the FT line, but she had no help from her teammates. No other Missouri player scored in double figures. Any idea on how they were effective at shutting down the Tigers offense beyond Cunningham? We often talk about the offensive problems an opposing team presents, but especially this year, sometimes it's our offense that has trouble keeping up.

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - TheFarm07 - 03-17-2018

(03-17-2018, 07:04 PM)81alum link Wrote:  I posted the write-up.  Hightlights:  we shot 51%, had a +15 rebounding advantage, and had an astounding 8 blocks.

Another highlight was Kiana. Though she missed a couple of easier, short-range jumpers, her stop-and-pop three pointers were awesome to see. But the play of the game from her was a fake handoff to either Alanna or Alyssa and then a curl drive around her defender for an easy layup. She is such a joy to watch and you can see the potential from her.

I think given her range and shooting prowess, she will moving to the top of our opponents' scouting reports very soon, if not sharing space with Brit and Alanna right now.

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - 81alum - 03-18-2018

(03-17-2018, 09:52 PM)TheFarm07 link Wrote:  [quote author=81alum link=topic=18880.msg226126#msg226126 date=1521338697]
I posted the write-up.  Hightlights:  we shot 51%, had a +15 rebounding advantage, and had an astounding 8 blocks.

Another highlight was Kiana. Though she missed a couple of easier, short-range jumpers, her stop-and-pop three pointers were awesome to see. But the play of the game from her was a fake handoff to either Alanna or Alyssa and then a curl drive around her defender for an easy layup. She is such a joy to watch and you can see the potential from her.

I think given her range and shooting prowess, she will moving to the top of our opponents' scouting reports very soon, if not sharing space with Brit and Alanna right now.
[/quote]

Yes, when we look at individual performances, Kiana is becoming more and more reliable.  It seems to me that when our offense stalls Kiana is the one player who can reliably reignite it.  Plus she is regularly leading our offense in points.  Yes, that curl drive was gorgeous!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T-VEUaau7o&feature=youtu.be

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - 81alum - 03-18-2018

Press conference:

Tara praised Alanna and Kiana.  Singled out Alanna for her defense on Jill Barta.  Said FGCU was a very "unorthodox" team and that we would be challenged.  "Their three point shooting is exceptional." 

She was asked about the officiating and she said she had to move on to another question. 

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - mbdude - 03-18-2018

Fun moments with Kianna and Alanna at end of their portions

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - JohnVernon - 03-18-2018

Yesterday was the first women's game that I attended this year.
I thought the officiating was bad and there was certainly no home court advantage.
Many of the Gonzaga's fouls were from barely under control drives followed by a collapse to the floor and a whistle.
Was yesterday's officiating representative or an outlier?

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - 2006alum - 03-18-2018

I only caught the game from the last few minutes of the first half on, but I thought we looked pretty evenly matched out there, with our brobdingnagian edge on rebounds and o-boards in particular carrying the day. Solid performance, but I wasn't exactly breathing easy until the last 2-3 minutes. It seemed like their zone was flummoxing us once again - other than Williams and Smith, it doesn't seem like our team has gotten much more comfortable against the zone. And unsurprisingly, they are our two players who can both take shots from the arc, make jumpers in the lanes, and drive to the hoop. That kind of versatility is so key, and I think their swarming us inside is part of why McPhee had a relatively quiet night (although she was our leading rebounder).

In particular, I really liked seeing how Williams was creating her own shots. The fake to Jerome followed by a curl drive to the hoop was terrific (and she called that one herself), and I also liked her step-aside trey late in the game. She seems so calm and self-possessed. I don't remember any of our players being so centered in themselves since Nneka - even Chiney had a tendency to be a bit wilder and more emotional, which probably made her more effective as a team leader, but also led to some slightly more spastic shots, especially in her freshman and sophomore years. Nneka from day one played a very calm, measured, focused game, and Williams seems much the same. It feels like she knows exactly where she is on the court and where she needs to be, like she sees everything a half step ahead of everyone else. I felt like Nneka was also like that, and I'm loving it. It also makes her extremely hard to defend, because she does not have go-to moves the way McPhee, for example, does.

One thing I noticed that struck me was that Carrington actually seems a little afraid to have to shoot the three. There was one sequence where we were passing around without much luck, the clock was down to about 7, someone inside passed it out to her at the right corner, there was no man covering her, and she hesitated and almost looked to pass before realizing there wasn't time, and then shot an extremely hesitant three that airballed. I haven't remembered her ever looking that afraid to shoot before, and it makes me wonder if her second-half slump is partially mental (with the other part being that with Williams' blossoming and McPhee's return, there's less time for her to play her way out of it). In particular, I worry a bit about the concussion she apparently got from practice, because I remember she got one during the McDonald's AA game and then went something like 0-9 shooting, with a number of airballs, almost as if her depth perception wasn't quite right. In that case, she'd just gotten the concussion, but it's now been a while since she had to sit out those two games as a precaution. I feel like since she came back, her shooting hasn't been as on point, and I've noticed several airballs that I don't remember seeing as much earlier in the season. Has anyone else noticed this? Hopefully I'm unnecessarily worrying?

Finally, I thought Gonzaga's defense got a little too aggressive at the end, especially in the last minute or two where it was pretty clear they weren't going to climb back. I'm all for going full court press at the 4-5 minute mark where a possible steal can generate some quick points, but they were mugging Marta and I thought one of the fouls on her toward the end should have been an unsportsmanlike. Given how close the refs were calling the game at the beginning, they strangely seemed to let up toward the end. I did feel a bit like they were trying, at the margins, to keep it close.

Still, we advanced with a solid win, and got some nice bench contributions from Carrington, Fingall, and Jerome. Eager to see what Tara cooks up against FGCU. If there's any coach I trust to come up with an effective game plan on 48 hours' notice, it's Tara.

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - 81alum - 03-18-2018

(03-18-2018, 12:10 PM)johnvervon link Wrote:  Yesterday was the first women's game that I attended this year.
I thought the officiating was bad and there was certainly no home court advantage.
Many of the Gonzaga's fouls were from barely under control drives followed by a collapse to the floor and a whistle.
Was yesterday's officiating representative or an outlier?
That officiating was not representative.  It was particularly egregious.  In fact, the only reason I might find certain other games to have had worse officiating is that in a couple of them it was just as bad but not as even-handed.  At least this bad officiating was bad for both sides.

Tara summed it up well in her presser after the game.  She was asked something like "There seemed to be a lot of fouls.  Was it just that you were fouling a lot, or was it something to do with the officiating."  She was really at a loss for words as several clouds passed before her eyes,  before she finally said "I'm going to have to move on to the next question."  One of the reporters said something like "ya, you need to talk to your lawyer before answering that, right?"

Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - qwerty49 - 03-18-2018

Good observations. I too wonder about Carrington. And that last time Stockton’s daughter mugged Marta was as close to a flagrant as can be IMO. It drew a review but that was as far as it got. She came from all the way across the court to get Marta. I think it might have been in retaliation for Marta drawing a charge from her a bit earlier. And hey, I didn’t like her daddy much either, back in the day, but he wasn’t nearly as brutish.

(03-18-2018, 12:39 PM)2006alum link Wrote:  I only caught the game from the last few minutes of the first half on, but I thought we looked pretty evenly matched out there, with our of exceedingly large proportions edge on rebounds and o-boards in particular carrying the day. Solid performance, but I wasn't exactly breathing easy until the last 2-3 minutes. It seemed like their zone was flummoxing us once again - other than Williams and Smith, it doesn't seem like our team has gotten much more comfortable against the zone. And unsurprisingly, they are our two players who can both take shots from the arc, make jumpers in the lanes, and drive to the hoop. That kind of versatility is so key, and I think their swarming us inside is part of why McPhee had a relatively quiet night (although she was our leading rebounder).

In particular, I really liked seeing how Williams was creating her own shots. The fake to Jerome followed by a curl drive to the hoop was terrific (and she called that one herself), and I also liked her step-aside trey late in the game. She seems so calm and self-possessed. I don't remember any of our players being so centered in themselves since Nneka - even Chiney had a tendency to be a bit wilder and more emotional, which probably made her more effective as a team leader, but also led to some slightly more spastic shots, especially in her freshman and sophomore years. Nneka from day one played a very calm, measured, focused game, and Williams seems much the same. It feels like she knows exactly where she is on the court and where she needs to be, like she sees everything a half step ahead of everyone else. I felt like Nneka was also like that, and I'm loving it. It also makes her extremely hard to defend, because she does not have go-to moves the way McPhee, for example, does.

One thing I noticed that struck me was that Carrington actually seems a little afraid to have to shoot the three. There was one sequence where we were passing around without much luck, the clock was down to about 7, someone inside passed it out to her at the right corner, there was no man covering her, and she hesitated and almost looked to pass before realizing there wasn't time, and then shot an extremely hesitant three that airballed. I haven't remembered her ever looking that afraid to shoot before, and it makes me wonder if her second-half slump is partially mental (with the other part being that with Williams' blossoming and McPhee's return, there's less time for her to play her way out of it). In particular, I worry a bit about the concussion she apparently got from practice, because I remember she got one during the McDonald's AA game and then went something like 0-9 shooting, with a number of airballs, almost as if her depth perception wasn't quite right. In that case, she'd just gotten the concussion, but it's now been a while since she had to sit out those two games as a precaution. I feel like since she came back, her shooting hasn't been as on point, and I've noticed several airballs that I don't remember seeing as much earlier in the season. Has anyone else noticed this? Hopefully I'm unnecessarily worrying?

Finally, I thought Gonzaga's defense got a little too aggressive at the end, especially in the last minute or two where it was pretty clear they weren't going to climb back. I'm all for going full court press at the 4-5 minute mark where a possible steal can generate some quick points, but they were mugging Marta and I thought one of the fouls on her toward the end should have been an unsportsmanlike. Given how close the refs were calling the game at the beginning, they strangely seemed to let up toward the end. I did feel a bit like they were trying, at the margins, to keep it close.

Still, we advanced with a solid win, and got some nice bench contributions from Carrington, Fingall, and Jerome. Eager to see what Tara cooks up against FGCU. If there's any coach I trust to come up with an effective game plan on 48 hours' notice, it's Tara.


Re: WBB: Stanford 82 Gonzaga 68 - JJJ - 03-18-2018

I found it very interesting that Carrington and McPhee aren't allowed to guard each other in practice!

http://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/NCAA-Womens-Basketball-Tournament-Stanford-Cardinal-Beat-Gonzaga-Bulldogs-82-68-Alanna-Smith-DiJonai-Carrington-Kiana-Williams-Brittany-McPhee-Lead-The-Way-116391649

Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 2:30 Saturday - crackpot - 03-19-2018

(03-17-2018, 04:32 PM)CompSci87 link Wrote:  [quote author=mbdude link=topic=18880.msg226109#msg226109 date=1521329467]
quit fouling them please
Tough when Michael Price and his crew are whistle happy on clean plays.
[/quote]

BTW, was I the only one who thought it odd that 2/3 of the crew were Pac-12 refs? (And why are Pac-12 refs the worst?)