WBB Schedule - Printable Version
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RE: Mudhead - BostonCard - 12-03-2020
(12-03-2020, 05:48 PM)Mudhead Wrote: Sorry folks, I’m a fan. Stanford women’s basketball will never be trivial to me. Excellence is too rare to be short circuited with “trivial”. In tha context it’s being used here, WBB should never be played. It is always “trivial” compared to war, world hunger or pestilence . But we dont stop playing it or watching it or supporting it . Why? Because Stanford playing its schedule does not affect those other things. Whether we play or no there will be war, there will be hunger and there will be disease.
NOW , if someone would just explain how Stanford women practicing basketball and playing games, sans fans, at Maples has any impact on .Covid 19 in Santa Clara County, maybe my thick head could understand why it has been banned. But that case has not been made. There are no data, much less science to connect the two.
Very sad decision for all Stanford sports but especially for these WBB players who have a chance for greatness .
Wasn't saying that WBB is trivial (though it is compared to 2000 people dying even in this sports fan's mind). I was saying that the loss of schedule symmetry was a pretty trivial concern.
As to your other point, every activity that brings people who are otherwise apart together is a possible transmission event. The only way to cut down on the number of people who are going to the hospital and dying is to cut down the number of transmission events (and specifically, it has to be cut down to where the average number of transmission events per infected patient is less than 1). It would be great if we had the infrastructure to track down individual infected patients, trace all their contacts, and test and isolate those contacts so that they don't go on to generate transmission events. Were we capable of doing that, and focused only on people who had COVID-19 or were exposed to those who tested positive, then the rest of us could go on and have a normal life, and football and basketball would be able to go on more or less normally.
Alas, we have failed at that task, and the only way we can do this is with blunt restrictions on activities, and specifically activities that can transmit the virus. Since close contact (especially indoors) transmits the virus and basketball requires close contact, this is, unfortunately, something that probably needs to be done to stem the continued transmission of COVID-19. Stanford basketball is probably ok, to the same extent that were I to host a small party in my house it would probably be ok. Alas, all those "probably OK's" are possible transmission events and, again, unless you can offer a better way to cut down transmission events so that the number of transmissions per infected person falls below 1 (which is what it takes for cases to start falling) what we have is special pleading for Stanford basketball because we are fans and want to see it.
Personally, though, I would much prefer to see it in April, May, and June, when vaccines are more or less widely available, temperatures are much better and the number of daily infections will hopefully be measured in the tens of thousands (and falling) instead of the hundreds of thousands (210,000 today and rising), there are plenty of hospital beds available if someone gets sick (over 100,000 or about 1 in 9 occupied with a COVID-19 patient today) and the number of daily deaths will be in the hundreds and not the thousands (2706 today).
BC
RE: WBB Schedule - petersalas - 12-03-2020
I’m posting on basketball and not the debate about Covid... South Carolina just lost to NC State, now if Stanford could get some games and wins under their belt, they could move to the #1 ranking and hopefully a very high seed in the tournament. Games are being played and as long as teams can stay safe and healthy.. I want Stanford to get some games in and hopefully get through the entire season with a national championship at the end of this season.
RE: WBB Schedule - chrisk - 12-03-2020
(12-03-2020, 06:35 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-03-2020, 04:47 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Teejers, even allowing for a healthy debate on the "should they or shouldn't they be allowed to play", "the schedule will lose its symmetry" is pretty trivial.
BC
I guess that depends on how you measure trivial. I'd also point out that in year where conference tourney is not happening, a RR becomes pretty important to the fairness of determining a champion. Now, you may counter that "we'll never get a full RR as Covid will take games out left and right" and that's a fair point. But then doesn't it make "gratuitously" removing games - i.e., not allowing games to be played where teams are healthy and following protocols - even a bigger deal?
P.S. What are the chances a Stanford player/staffer gets Covid in Vegas? I'd say higher than the chances had they remained on campus. Good grief.
If SCC tried to prevent to Stanford from going to Las Vegas, I’m sure you would consider that overreach. All they can do is put them in quarantine when they return.
SCC has questioned the 49ers values because they are still playing.
Shaw’s so far diplomatic approach seems to have avoided getting Stanford a public tongue-lashing. WBB will likely try to avoid that as well.
RE: WBB Schedule - jonnyss - 12-03-2020
isn't the issue that the supreme court just ruled that municipalities cannot restrict one sort of large gathering, e.g. churches, if they allow other large gatherings? i would presume that scc isn't targeting basketball games. rather, they understand that if they allow a basketball game - an indoor gathering of about 15 players + 10 staff per team = about 50 persons - they can't then ban restaurants, etc., from serving 50 customers at a time indoors. even practice is an indoor gathering of about 25 persons. similarly, a football practice involves about 100 players and staff together in a locker room before and after practice.
RE: WBB Schedule - BostonCard - 12-03-2020
We're going off tangent a bit, but the USSC decision focused specifically on religious services because they are protected by the first amendment and there are religious liberty concerns if a state or local government restricts church services but not analogous secular events.
That being said, we should be shutting down all indoor restaurant service, unfortunately (and "outdoor" service that is, for all intents and purposes, indoors because it is in an "outdoor" tent).
BC
RE: WBB Schedule - teejers1 - 12-03-2020
(12-03-2020, 08:02 PM)jonnyss Wrote: isn't the issue that the supreme court just ruled that municipalities cannot restrict one sort of large gathering, e.g. churches, if they allow other large gatherings? i would presume that scc isn't targeting basketball games. rather, they understand that if they allow a basketball game - an indoor gathering of about 15 players + 10 staff per team = about 50 persons - they can't then ban restaurants, etc., from serving 50 customers at a time indoors. even practice is an indoor gathering of about 25 persons. similarly, a football practice involves about 100 players and staff together in a locker room before and after practice.
Agree's with BC's legal take about the USSCt's decision, but am posting to note that 50 people at Maples is an entirely different animal than 50 people (or even 25) at the French Laundry (or any restaurant, I suspect), even though both are "indoors."
Baez87 - Baez87 - 12-04-2020
Meanwhile we've got some games to reschedule and play:
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30441268/stanford-adds-game-unlv-santa-clara-county-contact-sports-ban
RE: WBB Schedule - 81alum - 12-04-2020
(12-03-2020, 09:09 PM)BostonCard Wrote: We're going off tangent a bit, but the USSC decision focused specifically on religious services because they are protected by the first amendment and there are religious liberty concerns if a state or local government restricts church services but not analogous secular events.Not that it would matter, but is all of Maples really indoors? The concourse area with the concessions is technically open to the sky, even though the overhangs prevent the elements from getting in.
That being said, we should be shutting down all indoor restaurant service, unfortunately (and "outdoor" service that is, for all intents and purposes, indoors because it is in an "outdoor" tent).
BC
Of course, the games are not played on the concourse. And it doesn't sound like it would matter if they found a way to play the games outdoors anyway, as far as SCC is concerned.
RE: WBB Schedule - BobK - 12-04-2020
Just an FYI all weight training for both the men and women is or now was on the concourse because it is open.
RE: WBB Schedule - waynebear - 12-04-2020
The Sunday game vs. Washington has been moved to Las Vegas at 2pm, according to the UW site. No word yet on any rescheduling of the Washington State game.
https://gohuskies.com/news/2020/12/3/womens-basketball-sundays-game-at-stanford-moved-to-las-vegas.aspx
And now the Washington State game has been changed to Tuesday in Vegas. Here's the announcement:
https://gostanford.com/news/2020/12/4/womens-basketball-schedule-updates.aspx
RE: WBB Schedule - Spiny_Norman - 12-04-2020
Although there is no Stanford WBB today, there is a very compelling P12 game this evening - UCLA at Arizona, 6 pm pacific on the P12N.
Also Oregon hosts Colorado at 2 pm.
RE: WBB Schedule - teejers1 - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 12:29 PM)waynebear Wrote: The Sunday game vs. Washington has been moved to Las Vegas at 2pm, according to the UW site. No word yet on any rescheduling of the Washington State game.
https://gohuskies.com/news/2020/12/3/womens-basketball-sundays-game-at-stanford-moved-to-las-vegas.aspx
And now the Washington State game has been changed to Tuesday in Vegas. Here's the announcement:
https://gostanford.com/news/2020/12/4/womens-basketball-schedule-updates.aspx
College kids - some 21 or older, many not - with no school obligations like finals or papers to do - in Vegas to play hoops.
What could possibly go wrong???
P.S. I had to chuckle at BC's comment that "SCC questioned the values of the 49ers." Judging from some talk out of 49er HQ, I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual.
RE: WBB Schedule - petersalas - 12-04-2020
Nothing should go wrong.. it’s not like they are out on their own.. they are being held accountable and have very strict rules to follow.. I mean if they couldn’t even have thanksgiving dinner together as a team and everyone had to have their meals in their rooms, why would they be given free reign in Las Vegas... I’m sorry.. but as much as I’ve taken covid serious and to the extreme by not seeing my family and being stuck at home for months on end... this board was a distraction from COVID or so I thought... and now I see a lot of negativity about the games being played.. we’re constantly reminded about it in daily life, watching tv shows and in so many posts.. maybe I need to just keep myself away from the board and just enjoy the games as we get them.. I guess I had a lot bottled in and I truly don’t mean to offend anyone or minimize what’s going on in the world.. but I need something else and that’s what basketball is and does for me..
(12-04-2020, 12:59 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-04-2020, 12:29 PM)waynebear Wrote: The Sunday game vs. Washington has been moved to Las Vegas at 2pm, according to the UW site. No word yet on any rescheduling of the Washington State game.
https://gohuskies.com/news/2020/12/3/womens-basketball-sundays-game-at-stanford-moved-to-las-vegas.aspx
And now the Washington State game has been changed to Tuesday in Vegas. Here's the announcement:
https://gostanford.com/news/2020/12/4/womens-basketball-schedule-updates.aspx
College kids - some 21 or older, many not - with no school obligations like finals or papers to do - in Vegas to play hoops.
What could possibly go wrong???
P.S. I had to chuckle at BC's comment that "SCC questioned the values of the 49ers." Judging from some talk out of 49er HQ, I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual.
RE: WBB Schedule - Class_of_75 - 12-04-2020
From the Stanford website. UNLV at 2 tomorrow.
https://gostanford.com/news/2020/12/4/womens-basketball-schedule-updates.aspx
RE: WBB Schedule - BobK - 12-04-2020
https://unlvrebels.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule
Says watch
Mudhead - Mudhead - 12-04-2020
(12-03-2020, 06:55 PM)BostonCard Wrote: [quote="Mudhead" pid='299387' dateline='1607042906']
Sorry folks, I’m a fan. Stanford women’s basketball will never be trivial to me. Excellence is too rare to be short circuited with “trivial”. In tha context it’s being used here, WBB should never be played. It is always “trivial” compared to war, world hunger or pestilence . But we dont stop playing it or watching it or supporting it . Why? Because Stanford playing its schedule does not affect those other things. Whether we play or no there will be war, there will be hunger and there will be disease.
NOW , if someone would just explain how Stanford women practicing basketball and playing games, sans fans, at Maples has any impact on .Covid 19 in Santa Clara County, maybe my thick head could understand why it has been banned. But that case has not been made. There are no data, much less science to connect the two.
Very sad decision for all Stanford sports but especially for these WBB players who have a chance for greatness .
Wasn't saying that WBB is trivial (though it is compared to 2000 people dying even in this sports fan's mind). I was saying that the loss of schedule symmetry was a pretty trivial concern.
As to your other point, every activity that brings people who are otherwise apart together is a possible transmission event. The only way to cut down on the number of people who are going to the hospital and dying is to cut down the number of transmission events (and specifically, it has to be cut down to where the average number of transmission events per infected patient is less than 1). It would be great if we had the infrastructure to track down individual infected patients, trace all their contacts, and test and isolate those contacts so that they don't go on to generate transmission events. Were we capable of doing that, and focused only on people who had COVID-19 or were exposed to those who tested positive, then the rest of us could go on and have a normal life, and football and basketball would be able to go on more or less normally.
Alas, we have failed at that task, and the only way we can do this is with blunt restrictions on activities, and specifically activities that can transmit the virus. Since close contact (especially indoors) transmits the virus and basketball requires close contact, this is, unfortunately, something that probably needs to be done to stem the continued transmission of COVID-19. Stanford basketball is probably ok, to the same extent that were I to host a small party in my house it would probably be ok. Alas, all those "probably OK's" are possible transmission events and, again, unless you can offer a better way to cut down transmission events so that the number of transmissions per infected person falls below 1 (which is what it takes for cases to start falling) what we have is special pleading for Stanford basketball because we are fans and want to see it.
Personally, though, I would much prefer to see it in April, May, and June, when vaccines are more or less widely available, temperatures are much better and the number of daily infections will hopefully be measured in the tens of thousands (and falling) instead of the hundreds of thousands (210,000 today and rising), there are plenty of hospital beds available if someone gets sick (over 100,000 or about 1 in 9 occupied with a COVID-19 patient today) and the number of daily deaths will be in the hundreds and not the thousands (2706 today).
BC
Appreciate your thoughts and tone. Thanks for that . In same spirit, your response proves too much. Yes every intersection of people has some probability of Covids spread. But no one is suggesting all intersection be eliminated; that would not be a serious proposal.
I think the point is that the burden is on the regulator. Before you order people to cease an activity they value, you must show some actual harm from the activity or at least some very high probability of harm. There has been no showing that Football, Men’s and Women’s BB and volleyball at Stanford are contributing to the spread of .Covids. Yes, it could happen. But it should take more than that, unless you believe these sporting activities are so trivial that no showing be made.
That’s not what you said , I know. But in the absence of some showing, some logic by the regulator, I hear my sainted mother telling me to clean my plate because of the starving Chinese. One worthwhile activity and one noble thought but zero nexus between the two.
Now, the women will play in Las Vegas. That is higher risk than playing at Maples. And that is what the regulator has brought about.
But I’ve said enough and promise to focus on and enjoy the basketball games wherever our women play. Let’s look forward to seeing an excellent and exciting team in action.
RE: WBB Schedule - teejers1 - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 01:07 PM)petersalas Wrote: Nothing should go wrong.. it’s not like they are out on their own.. they are being held accountable and have very strict rules to follow.. I mean if they couldn’t even have thanksgiving dinner together as a team and everyone had to have their meals in their rooms, why would they be given free reign in Las Vegas... I’m sorry.. but as much as I’ve taken covid serious and to the extreme by not seeing my family and being stuck at home for months on end... this board was a distraction from COVID or so I thought... and now I see a lot of negativity about the games being played.. we’re constantly reminded about it in daily life, watching tv shows and in so many posts.. maybe I need to just keep myself away from the board and just enjoy the games as we get them.. I guess I had a lot bottled in and I truly don’t mean to offend anyone or minimize what’s going on in the world.. but I need something else and that’s what basketball is and does for me..
It may be hard for you to believe, but I lean WAY closer to your view than you think (see Mudhead's post below). And if you'd visit the Covid board (which I DON'T recommend, based on your comments above), then you'd see that. I take an Internet beating over there - and give a little, too - but it's all good. Also, even though I may not see eye-to-eye with a lot of folks there on what constitutes reasonable restrictions, there are numerous informative posts about the virus that are interesting/edifying.
RE: WBB Schedule - Baez87 - 12-04-2020
More game news!!!
https://gostanford.com/news/2020/12/4/womens-basketball-schedule-updates.aspx
RE: WBB Schedule - petersalas - 12-04-2020
It really wasn’t personal.. and more in general and to vent.. it’s just overwhelming and I’m the go to for keeping employees out and clearing them to return to work in relation to COVID leaves.. so I know there’s no escaping the reality, but I’m using basketball as a distraction and I cannot overstate how happy I am that they will be playing.. as long as they are being safe :)
(12-04-2020, 02:56 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-04-2020, 01:07 PM)petersalas Wrote: Nothing should go wrong.. it’s not like they are out on their own.. they are being held accountable and have very strict rules to follow.. I mean if they couldn’t even have thanksgiving dinner together as a team and everyone had to have their meals in their rooms, why would they be given free reign in Las Vegas... I’m sorry.. but as much as I’ve taken covid serious and to the extreme by not seeing my family and being stuck at home for months on end... this board was a distraction from COVID or so I thought... and now I see a lot of negativity about the games being played.. we’re constantly reminded about it in daily life, watching tv shows and in so many posts.. maybe I need to just keep myself away from the board and just enjoy the games as we get them.. I guess I had a lot bottled in and I truly don’t mean to offend anyone or minimize what’s going on in the world.. but I need something else and that’s what basketball is and does for me..
It may be hard for you to believe, but I lean WAY closer to your view than you think (see Mudhead's post below). And if you'd visit the Covid board (which I DON'T recommend, based on your comments above), then you'd see that. I take an Internet beating over there - and give a little, too - but it's all good. Also, even though I may not see eye-to-eye with a lot of folks there on what constitutes reasonable restrictions, there are numerous informative posts about the virus that are interesting/edifying.
RE: WBB Schedule - BobK - 12-04-2020
Interesting as five local counties have joined Santa Clara that the City of Berkeley has given the ok for cal basketball teams to play and practice at cal