UCLA WBB - Printable Version

UCLA WBB - Printable Version

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RE: UCLA WBB - BobK - 01-30-2021

Awesome post Chimera

RE: UCLA WBB - triangle2 - 01-30-2021

Win or lose this season, I'm going to put forth my theory that this is the team's finest hour. Stepping back to the thousand foot view, this season won't ever be forgotten. And these players will be talking about the 2020-21 season when they're too old to remember yesterday's news. These kids are trying to play top level DI basketball during a world-wide medical emergency, and they just spent several weeks living out of hotel rooms without any home games and doing their classwork online, social distancing, mask wearing, etc. while Santa Clara County turned them into traveling orphans. None of them will ever forget this experience. Just like we won't ever forget what each of us is going through in our personal universes.

We have so many young freshman and sophomores that are still learning the system and adjusting to the college game while still contributing at an extremely high level. Looking backwards, that's very unusual in the Tara universe except for the occasional instant 4-year starter. Recall how many Stanford players who didn't emerge until their junior or even senior seasons. Or even (cough) not until the Pac-12 tournament during senior year. This gives me perspective and helps me marvel at the great contributions the team is getting from the underclassmen. For instance, we don't talk about Van Gytenbeek a lot, but I am acutely aware of how unusual it is for Stanford to have a backup freshman point guard who has such a great handle, speed, and ability to hit the 3. Remember when Stanford's post-season hopes went down the drain after JJ Hones blew her knee out against Cal, and the team couldn't bring the ball up against a press?

I like to play the game of what if from time to time (Pivec? - bangs head against desk), but I give so much credit to the staff for maintaining a low drama program where the kids seem to genuinely like each other and play for each other. They earn Stanford degrees and go on to do interesting things (e.g. Kate the Great is now Associate Professor at UW in the Department of Human Centered Design & Engineering. How cool is that?).

My personal theory is that after a small outbreak of discord a few years ago, the coaches bumped up the list "plays for teammates" and "loves Stanford" on the list of subjectives. If true, I can't argue with that. FWIW, I think Jump is following a Karlie trajectory and I'm looking forward to seeing her game mature over the next 2.5 seasons. She's already a smart decision maker, an improving defender, and a lights out (but streaky!) shooter. Everyone seems to be working their butts off under enormously stressful circumstances. I applaud each and every one of them.

I also don't want to lose sight of how thoughtful Coach Tara has been in the midst of all of this - no bad mouthing anyone (opposing teams, Santa Clara County, COVID rules). Every time I see her speaking, she's thanking opposing teams for being safe and enabling games to get played, encouraging everyone to follow the rules, and thanking opposing coaches who scheduled games on the fly, lent practice facilities, and changed plans on a moment's notice. And this season is happening during the most significant period of racial strife in 50 years, give or take. Stanford has posted some great conversations among players where we get to see them talk frankly about really hard topics with maturity. Wow, 2020-21 has just been beyond what any athlete could have imagined going through.

Maybe this is a Final Four team. Maybe not. But it's a really fun team to watch develop and I'm grateful that I'm getting to see it. This is not a year to be doing much complaining (except at COVID, Larry Scott, or maybe Missy). I'm appreciating every minute of this season, a bright spot in a pretty horrible 12 months.

RE: UCLA WBB - old spanish trail - 01-30-2021

(01-30-2021, 05:50 PM)triangle2 Wrote: Win or lose this season, I'm going to put forth my theory that this is the team's finest hour. Stepping back to the thousand foot view, this season won't ever be forgotten. And these players will be talking about the 2020-21 season when they're too old to remember yesterday's news. These kids are trying to play top level DI basketball during a world-wide medical emergency, and they just spent several weeks living out of hotel rooms without any home games and doing their classwork online, social distancing, mask wearing, etc. while Santa Clara County turned them into traveling orphans. None of them will ever forget this experience. Just like we won't ever forget what each of us is going through in our personal universes.

We have so many young freshman and sophomores that are still learning the system and adjusting to the college game while still contributing at an extremely high level. Looking backwards, that's very unusual in the Tara universe except for the occasional instant 4-year starter. Recall how many Stanford players who didn't emerge until their junior or even senior seasons. Or even (cough) not until the Pac-12 tournament during senior year. This gives me perspective and helps me marvel at the great contributions the team is getting from the underclassmen. For instance, we don't talk about Van Gytenbeek a lot, but I am acutely aware of how unusual it is for Stanford to have a backup freshman point guard who has such a great handle, speed, and ability to hit the 3. Remember when Stanford's post-season hopes went down the drain after JJ Hones blew her knee out against Cal, and the team couldn't bring the ball up against a press?

I like to play the game of what if from time to time (Pivec? - bangs head against desk), but I give so much credit to the staff for maintaining a low drama program where the kids seem to genuinely like each other and play for each other. They earn Stanford degrees and go on to do interesting things (e.g. Kate the Great is now Associate Professor at UW in the Department of Human Centered Design & Engineering. How cool is that?).

My personal theory is that after a small outbreak of discord a few years ago, the coaches bumped up the list "plays for teammates" and "loves Stanford" on the list of subjectives. If true, I can't argue with that. FWIW, I think Jump is following a Karlie trajectory and I'm looking forward to seeing her game mature over the next 2.5 seasons. She's already a smart decision maker, an improving defender, and a lights out (but streaky!) shooter. Everyone seems to be working their butts off under enormously stressful circumstances. I applaud each and every one of them.

I also don't want to lose sight of how thoughtful Coach Tara has been in the midst of all of this - no bad mouthing anyone (opposing teams, Santa Clara County, COVID rules). Every time I see her speaking, she's thanking opposing teams for being safe and enabling games to get played, encouraging everyone to follow the rules, and thanking opposing coaches who scheduled games on the fly, lent practice facilities, and changed plans on a moment's notice. And this season is happening during the most significant period of racial strife in 50 years, give or take. Stanford has posted some great conversations among players where we get to see them talk frankly about really hard topics with maturity. Wow, 2020-21 has just been beyond what any athlete could have imagined going through.

Maybe this is a Final Four team. Maybe not. But it's a really fun team to watch develop and I'm grateful that I'm getting to see it. This is not a year to be doing much complaining (except at COVID, Larry Scott, or maybe Missy). I'm appreciating every minute of this season, a bright spot in a pretty horrible 12 months.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Agree, Triangle. This team has been great in a totally strange and difficult year. With a little luck, they are a Final Four team with as good a chance as the rest at winning it all. And, since I started this after being blown away by Osborne, you guys have closed it nicely. Thanks.

RE: UCLA WBB - 2006alum - 01-30-2021

(01-30-2021, 05:14 PM)WBB fan Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 04:30 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 02:51 PM)chimera Wrote: We have no way to know if Osborne got in, no way to know what the coaches prioritized, etc., etc. There is always that maybe she simply liked UCLA better. She is from that area, after all. The last player in the class to commit was Jones, correct? So maybe it was Jones vs Osborne, which I doubt and anyway, who cares? If Osborne was on our team, she probably doesn't have the stats she has now given who she would be competing with for playing time. Also keep in mind that recruiting is not a perfect science. Nobody knows for sure what they will get until a player is playing in college, or how they will develop in their career. I just don't see the point of this, and it seems unfair to Hannah Jump, who contributes and who has worked quite hard to get into the best shape possible. I guess since I don't like this I should butt out, which I will, but I finally felt the need to say something.

Great post. I'm glad you spoke up.

Totally agree. Well said -- there is always so much we don't know.

+3. Not sure if this OP was the one who posted before, but in the fall someone posted a similar Jump vs. Osborne gripe and we had literally the exact same debate, and I made a version of the same point. At the time Jump committed almost no one had heard of Brett Kavanaugh, Alexandria Orcasio Cortez, or a coronavirus. The sell by date on Monday morning recruit coordinating is at least 2 years past date here. Mamlet is even more ancient history. Let's move on, please.

Also: every team needs a star. Amber Espinoza Hunter was essentially kicked off the UConn team fall of her freshman year, she then transferred to Miss St. where she eventually lost her starting spot, and then transferred again to Seton Hall, where she's now scoring 30 points a game. One data point suggests she's a problem child, one that she's a fine but forgettable player, and one that she's the One That Got Away. It's easy to come up with lovely counterfactuals when you have no idea what the actual reality would have been.

RE: UCLA WBB - qwerty49 - 01-30-2021

(01-30-2021, 05:14 PM)WBB fan Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 04:30 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 02:51 PM)chimera Wrote: We have no way to know if Osborne got in, no way to know what the coaches prioritized, etc., etc. There is always that maybe she simply liked UCLA better. She is from that area, after all. The last player in the class to commit was Jones, correct? So maybe it was Jones vs Osborne, which I doubt and anyway, who cares? If Osborne was on our team, she probably doesn't have the stats she has now given who she would be competing with for playing time. Also keep in mind that recruiting is not a perfect science. Nobody knows for sure what they will get until a player is playing in college, or how they will develop in their career. I just don't see the point of this, and it seems unfair to Hannah Jump, who contributes and who has worked quite hard to get into the best shape possible. I guess since I don't like this I should butt out, which I will, but I finally felt the need to say something.

Great post. I'm glad you spoke up.

Totally agree. Well said -- there is always so much we don't know.

chimera - I know you are sometimes reticent to post for a variety of reasons. But you are also one of the more knowledgeable people here when it comes to WBB. I for one am extremely interested in your views and I always appreciate reading them. (There are some threads that are simply not “complete” until you weigh in, IMHO.)

RE: UCLA WBB - chimera - 01-31-2021

(01-30-2021, 11:02 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 05:14 PM)WBB fan Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 04:30 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 02:51 PM)chimera Wrote: We have no way to know if Osborne got in, no way to know what the coaches prioritized, etc., etc. There is always that maybe she simply liked UCLA better. She is from that area, after all. The last player in the class to commit was Jones, correct? So maybe it was Jones vs Osborne, which I doubt and anyway, who cares? If Osborne was on our team, she probably doesn't have the stats she has now given who she would be competing with for playing time. Also keep in mind that recruiting is not a perfect science. Nobody knows for sure what they will get until a player is playing in college, or how they will develop in their career. I just don't see the point of this, and it seems unfair to Hannah Jump, who contributes and who has worked quite hard to get into the best shape possible. I guess since I don't like this I should butt out, which I will, but I finally felt the need to say something.

Great post. I'm glad you spoke up.

Totally agree. Well said -- there is always so much we don't know.

chimera - I know you are sometimes reticent to post for a variety of reasons. But you are also one of the more knowledgeable people here when it comes to WBB. I for one am extremely interested in your views and I always appreciate reading them. (There are some threads that are simply not “complete” until you weigh in, IMHO.)

Wow, thanks, you are too kind.

RE: UCLA WBB - 81alum - 01-31-2021

(01-30-2021, 11:02 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 05:14 PM)WBB fan Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 04:30 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(01-30-2021, 02:51 PM)chimera Wrote: We have no way to know if Osborne got in, no way to know what the coaches prioritized, etc., etc. There is always that maybe she simply liked UCLA better. She is from that area, after all. The last player in the class to commit was Jones, correct? So maybe it was Jones vs Osborne, which I doubt and anyway, who cares? If Osborne was on our team, she probably doesn't have the stats she has now given who she would be competing with for playing time. Also keep in mind that recruiting is not a perfect science. Nobody knows for sure what they will get until a player is playing in college, or how they will develop in their career. I just don't see the point of this, and it seems unfair to Hannah Jump, who contributes and who has worked quite hard to get into the best shape possible. I guess since I don't like this I should butt out, which I will, but I finally felt the need to say something.

Great post. I'm glad you spoke up.

Totally agree. Well said -- there is always so much we don't know.

chimera - I know you are sometimes reticent to post for a variety of reasons. But you are also one of the more knowledgeable people here when it comes to WBB. I for one am extremely interested in your views and I always appreciate reading them. (There are some threads that are simply not “complete” until you weigh in, IMHO.)

I second this!

RE: UCLA WBB - jonnyss - 01-31-2021

this thread is titled ucla wbb.

i followed charisma and haley with enthusiasm throughout their high school careers from the time that bob posted that they were stanford recruits. both played for the usa under-17 national team; both were california players of the year for their class; both were mcdonald's all-Americans; charisma played for vanessa nygaard. i had high hopes both would come to stanford. i'm a loyal guy, so i still follow charisma with enthusiasm as i followed danielle robinson for years.

while i certainly respect the defense of hannah and tara, i will add that there is also no call to disparage charisma by speculating that she didn't get admitted.

the numbers say that we did not leave space for charisma. maybe that decision was great; maybe it was bad -- we can all have opinions on that. and, sure, maybe we should keep our opinions to ourselves if they impugn a player or coach (unless we are disappointed stanford left no space for emeka okafor, in which case it is ok to lament). but charisma was publicly hoping for stanford (ie not yet turned down by stanford) well after we had committed 3 of our spots. and we ended up reserving the 4th space for haley til (or even past) signing day. do i know from insider information that we did not leave space for charisma? no. do i believe it beyond a reasonable doubt? yes.

so the acceptance decision by admissions was moot.

RE: UCLA WBB - 2006alum - 01-31-2021

Jonny, it's been almost three years since Jump committed. What is the point of this ongoing gripe? The water is so far under the bridge at this point.

RE: UCLA WBB - Hulk01 - 01-31-2021

Triangle,
You expressed some things that I have felt for some time,
and did it so well.

Thank you!