CFP 2021 - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: CFP 2021 (/thread-22706.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: CFP 2021 (/thread-22706.html)
RE: CFP 2021 - BostonCard - 12-05-2021
A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
RE: CFP 2021 - Goose - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.Additional games also increase the risk that an injury to a critical player alters the landscape halfway through.
BC
RE: CFP 2021 - DC 86 - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 11:19 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I hate to piss in the SEC is better punch bowl, but the only reason the SEC always gets chances no other conference gets is because they play 8 conference games and in general, every SEC team has one less loss and one more win than everyone else. When the voters vote, they always see SEC teams as having better records and they get more benefit from beating each other than other conferences do.
The SEC has won 11 of the last 15 national championships; four different SEC teams have been champions during this period. Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
RE: CFP 2021 - CowboyIndian - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
They do have the best talent but a season becomes a lot easier and more successful if you're playing 8 conference games and a high school team in November when everyone else is playing a P5 conference foe. Until the committee cleans up that horse schit (I'm looking at you, ACC, too) there's a pretty serious stain on the accomplishments of the $EC.
RE: CFP 2021 - DC 86 - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 06:55 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
They do have the best talent but a season becomes a lot easier and more successful if you're playing 8 conference games and a high school team in November when everyone else is playing a P5 conference foe. Until the committee cleans up that horse schit (I'm looking at you, ACC, too) there's a pretty serious stain on the accomplishments of the $EC.
Conversely, a season becomes a lot easier when the programs in your division are far weaker (see Clemson) or when an independent doesn't face a single ranked team all season (and plays one fewer game than conference teams), see Notre Dame. Alabama, Auburn and LSU have to play each other every year, guaranteeing losses to at least two national contenders, not to mention also having to play A&M, Ole Miss et al.
The SEC has won 11 national championships while the other eleven conferences and independents have collectively won four. I can't believe that the eight-game schedule has such a dramatic impact or that it is such a serious stain. I would like to see consistency across conferences, of course.
RE: CFP 2021 - CompSci87 - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
As someone said, that's why they play the games. Wins and losses are what it's all about, not stats, eye tests, or style points.
RE: CFP 2021 - 82lsju - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 06:55 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
They do have the best talent but a season becomes a lot easier and more successful if you're playing 8 conference games and a high school team in November when everyone else is playing a P5 conference foe. Until the committee cleans up that horse schit (I'm looking at you, ACC, too) there's a pretty serious stain on the accomplishments of the $EC.
if the Pac 12, Big 10, and Big 12 (but that would spoil their round robin talking point) think this is a brobdingnagian disadvantage they can all go to eight conference games, of course then the SEC and ACC will probably go to seven conference games....
after OU and UT join the SEC then there will be seven intra-division games and one cross division game a year.....I'd assume UT and OU both end up in the SEC west, if not it will be interesting to see how the reshuffle the divisions to keep the traditional rivals in the same division so they can play every year.
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
bring back the sixteen team NCAA men's basketball tournament!!!!
RE: CFP 2021 - DC 86 - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 09:01 PM)82lsju Wrote: after OU and UT join the SEC then there will be seven intra-division games and one cross division game a year.....I'd assume UT and OU both end up in the SEC west, if not it will be interesting to see how the reshuffle the divisions to keep the traditional rivals in the same division so they can play every year.
There's a lot of support for going to four four-team pods, we shall see.
If they stay with two divisions then the two easternmost west division teams are Alabama and Auburn, not sure how much appetite there is for moving them to the east division.
RE: CFP 2021 - Goose - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: The SEC has won 11 of the last 15 national championships; four different SEC teams have been champions during this period. Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.It indeed shows they have at least one program that is the best in the country. That program is usually Alabama, but there are probably two or three others who belong in that class. Beyond that, the playoffs show nothing about the other SEC schools. It may be they are all pretty good, and there are going to be a few more cross-conference games to showcase that (or not). I will be impressed when the SEC schools all schedule no more than 1 cupcake per year. Then we will know. Until then, not so much.
RE: CFP 2021 - Spiny_Norman - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 05:36 PM)DC 86 Wrote: But in no universe did Notre Dame accomplish more this season than Georgia, nor is Notre Dame objectively a better team than Georgia (it's not that close.)
To further support your point about Notre Dame's weak resume, after they lost to Cincinnati on October 2, they did not play any games against a team that would finish the season with a winning record. All we learned is that Notre Dame looked strong vs. teams that were 6-6 or worse.
RE: CFP 2021 - BostonCard - 12-05-2021
Furthermore, we played Cal and Notre Dame on back to back weeks, and though both teams beat us handily, Cal looked better doing so… and then promptly went on to lose to UCLA the next week.
BC
RE: CFP 2021 - BigJohn043 - 12-05-2021
UGA opens as a 7.5 point favorite and Bama as a 13.5 point favorite.
These are the two best teams and it isn't close.
RE: CFP 2021 - Spiny_Norman - 12-05-2021
(12-05-2021, 10:43 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: UGA opens as a 7.5 point favorite and Bama as a 13.5 point favorite.
These are the two best teams and it isn't close.
Alabama - the team that was down 10-0 to their arch rival Auburn (a 6-6 team) in the 4th quarter and one brain fart by a running back away from losing the Iron Bowl?
When they play at their best as they did vs. Georgia, Alabama is very tough to beat. We'll see if they can play at that level for one or two more games.
RE: CFP 2021 - oldalum - 12-06-2021
(12-05-2021, 09:01 PM)82lsju Wrote: if the Pac 12, Big 10, and Big 12 (but that would spoil their round robin talking point) think this is a of immense proportions disadvantage they can all go to eight conference gameswe can't go to 8 plus a cupcake because it would decrease the attractiveness and therefore dollars of the TV package. The SEC can afford to do this, plus pay the cupcakes $1 million+ per, because they are generating so much revenue now. If we go to 8, it will need to be with high-value games that will attract more viewers, hence the negotiations for the Pac-12-Big 10 alliance. I found this 2015 article informative on how Alabama football raises so much money, the athletic department helps support the university. article Some tidbits: they produce a 175+ page game program for each game and sell 17,000 at each game for $5 each. In 2015 they had a waiting list of 31,000 for season tickets for their 101,000+ seat stadium. It's a totally different fan world from ours.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-06-2021
(12-05-2021, 05:48 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-05-2021, 05:36 PM)DC 86 Wrote: nor is Notre Dame objectively a better team than Georgia (it's not that close.)I happen to agree with you, but the real problem is that neither ND nor Georgia played a particularly difficult schedule. In a sense, we really don't know how good either of them are. We know ND wasn't better than Cincinnati on the day they played, and we know Georgia was not better than Alabama on the day they played. That's about all we know, because there aren't many other "quality" data points. Clemson wasn't very good this year, so that data point for Georgia is really devalued.
In order to retain sanity, I simply remember that this "playoff" format in no way guarantees the best team in the country will win. If that happens, it is mostly luck, because there are so many conflating factors that can make that not happen. It is for "fun", nothing else.
I think the best two teams end up in the Championship game nearly every year. In fact, give me a year when they haven’t - since going to the 4 team format. I think it should be expanded. But I don’t think there have been many, if any, years where the top teams didn’t play for the Championship.
The thing about this year is that essentially everyone agreed on the top 4. The only real question was seeding.
RE: CFP 2021 - OutsiderFan - 12-06-2021
I'd be OK with keeping it at 4 teams on the condition no team that loses its Conference Championship Game is allowed to be in the CFP.
If this were the case for Georgia, maybe UGA might have blitzed Bryce Young before the second half when down by 14+ points. I watched the Alabama-Auburn game and was simply astounded why Georgia didn't follow the same defensive game plan as Auburn, who held Alabama to 0 points through 3 quarters bringing 5 and 6 pass rushers to sack Bryce Young seven times.
Georgia played that SEC CG game like losing wasn't the end of the world for them, with zero urgency. They had the arrogance to think they could rush just 4 guys as they had all season, and it would work to stop Alabama as it did everyone else. Now, should they face Alabama again, they will do so knowing the original plan of rushing just 4 isn't going to work against Alabama. And now that key Alabama WR John Metchie out for season, they will have an even bigger advantage in a second matchup.
Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?
RE: CFP 2021 - Goose - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?I feel certain that you know that "everybody else" (except Cincinnati) also lost a game, which is arguably the mulligan that they in fact did get. It is certainly rational to define the conference championship game as "definitive", since we will consider the CFP games themselves as definitive. That hasn't been done, so the "mulligan" extends to the championship games. Does any of this make "sense"? I don't think so. Unless a given team was undefeated, on some day of the year, some other team was better, because they defeated them. In order to really "know" the truth, you need to play the same games over and over until the p value is adequate. Of course, that wouldn't help even if you could do it, because the teams change skill set and even composition week to week.
That's why I say this is for fun, because it can't be science.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I'd be OK with keeping it at 4 teams on the condition no team that loses its Conference Championship Game is allowed to be in the CFP.
If this were the case for Georgia, maybe UGA might have blitzed Bryce Young before the second half when down by 14+ points. I watched the Alabama-Auburn game and was simply astounded why Georgia didn't follow the same defensive game plan as Auburn, who held Alabama to 0 points through 3 quarters bringing 5 and 6 pass rushers to sack Bryce Young seven times.
Georgia played that SEC CG game like losing wasn't the end of the world for them, with zero urgency. They had the arrogance to think they could rush just 4 guys as they had all season, and it would work to stop Alabama as it did everyone else. Now, should they face Alabama again, they will do so knowing the original plan of rushing just 4 isn't going to work against Alabama. And now that key Alabama WR John Metchie out for season, they will have an even bigger advantage in a second matchup.
Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?
They don’t. They simply are the best one loss team left. Can’t see why you have such a hard time with that. ND played a patsy schedule. Got whipped by the one ranked team they played. OKSU would have had a great argument - had they won. They didn’t. Utah has 2 losses. And the PAC-12 (deservedly) gets no respect. So who is left?
Methinks this is one of those SEC is overrated rants. It is not. It is by far the best football week in week out in the country. And it has, by far, the most talent. As evidenced by the number of SEC players in the NFL.
As for your urgency comments, are you kidding? They had the chance not only to win the SEC, but also would be 1 seed, playing weakest team. And best of all, perhaps knock Bama out.
Big 10 is, IMO, the second best. Michigan has a great chance to make a statement.
RE: lex24 - OutsiderFan - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 11:08 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I'd be OK with keeping it at 4 teams on the condition no team that loses its Conference Championship Game is allowed to be in the CFP.
If this were the case for Georgia, maybe UGA might have blitzed Bryce Young before the second half when down by 14+ points. I watched the Alabama-Auburn game and was simply astounded why Georgia didn't follow the same defensive game plan as Auburn, who held Alabama to 0 points through 3 quarters bringing 5 and 6 pass rushers to sack Bryce Young seven times.
Georgia played that SEC CG game like losing wasn't the end of the world for them, with zero urgency. They had the arrogance to think they could rush just 4 guys as they had all season, and it would work to stop Alabama as it did everyone else. Now, should they face Alabama again, they will do so knowing the original plan of rushing just 4 isn't going to work against Alabama. And now that key Alabama WR John Metchie out for season, they will have an even bigger advantage in a second matchup.
Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?
They don’t. They simply are the best one loss team left. Can’t see why you have such a hard time with that. ND played a patsy schedule. Got whipped by the one ranked team they played. OKSU would have had a great argument - had they won. They didn’t. Utah has 2 losses. And the PAC-12 (deservedly) gets no respect. So who is left?
Methinks this is one of those SEC is overrated rants. It is not. It is by far the best football week in week out in the country. And it has, by far, the most talent. As evidenced by the number of SEC players in the NFL.
As for your urgency comments, are you kidding? They had the chance not only to win the SEC, but also would be 1 seed, playing weakest team. And best of all, perhaps knock Bama out.
Big 10 is, IMO, the second best. Michigan has a great chance to make a statement.
You can say you think it's fine that a team can be in playoff even after losing its conference championship game. I'll disagree, but at least it's a legitimate position to take. You can't tell me something didn't happen that absolutely did and expect me to take that position seriously.
Facts:
- Auburn constantly sent 5 and 6 guys after Alabama's QB and stifled their offense as. result
- Georgia didn't employ this tactic until well behind in the game, thinking they could get pressure with just 4
- Georgia could "experiment" and not lose playoff opportunity with a flawed playoff system that allows teams to fail in a championship game
I have a hard time with a team losing a conference championship game and being in a 4-team playoff because that is suppose to be where the best a team can muster is produced. It's suppose to mean something and be critical. If the playoff field is expanded, then sure, allow Georgia in.
But it's not credible to place all this emphasis on a championship game, and then have it mean everything for one team to win, and not be catastrophic for the loser. Losing a seeding spot is not even close equivalence to missing the field entirely. And if you expand the playoff, conference championship games don't mean much other than bragging rights, and I fail to see the logic of even playing them. I mean I do, it's a money grab, but they are not very meaningful or as meaningful as they should be, IMO, after expanding playoff field.
I'm just glad we didn't see the current #1 team at #4 after losing to Georgia. That might have happened at the expense of Cincinnati, which would have been outrageous. I don't care who is favored by how much over who. You have your chances to perform when the money is on the line and if you don't you should be out. Period.
RE: lex24 - DC 86 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 11:08 AM)lex24 Wrote: Big 10 is, IMO, the second best. Michigan has a great chance to make a statement.
I feel that the gap between the SEC and Big-X is not as large this year as it usually is.
And Michigan is constructed in a way that can produce an upset; their game against Ohio State is a blueprint for how they can defeat teams that have more speed and talent.