MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - Printable Version
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RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - martyup - 12-16-2021
(12-16-2021, 10:24 PM)Madera86 Wrote: Hasse Tara at the next practice (I hope): "No one goes home until they've hit 100 from the line. Real talk."
Hey, it's a win.
![[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia...f=1&nofb=1]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3o6Zt6LYdFhWxjLtcc%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
![[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia...f=1&nofb=1]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3o7TKrUlJVahCqcrfO%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - Sam Leopold - 12-16-2021
I hope for the love of the mother's holy god that Stanford just looked past this game with Texas on tap this Sunday and fresh off the Oregon drama. Down by 7 with 70 seconds left to play, that should have been game the f/// over. This squad can't count on being able to pull off that kind of miracle again. About the free throw shooting, Stanford started four forwards tonight, and there are going to be some brick heaps when that happens. It shouldn't ever get this bad, but the distance is a bit long for a four-forward starting lineup.
Got to raise the level of play by multiple echelons, particularly on defense, or the Longhorns will be grazing on cattle fodder.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - old spanish trail - 12-16-2021
Yay. We won. Yay, I guess. Why was Jones out? Keefe had a good game, but he should. We are bigger than Dartmouth...even Keefe. He won't have the same success vs Pac 10. I wish Reynaud had played more vs a team he should have success against inside. Good thing we have Ingram to take over at the end.
Can anyone tell me why we don''t set any screens? The Warriors run a motion offense and they still have screens galore. How would you describe our offense? Anyone?
And, we aren't going far if we can't increase FT %. O'Connell, Taitz, Ingram, Angel, Reynaud are all pretty dependable. Delaire good on a good night. Can't leave Keefe in at the end if he can't improve ft%.
But, we won...so yay.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - CompSci87 - 12-16-2021
I was watching delayed on DVR and snuck a look at the live score. When I saw Stanford was down by 7 with only 1:16 left, I stopped the playback in disgust, hit delete, and put something else on TV.
Then I peeked at the score again and we were only down 2 with 41 seconds to go, so I turned it on live and watched us tie it up and then dominate in OT. What a crazy game. I hope the players learned something from it and we see them playing like in OT going forward!
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - Farm93 - 12-16-2021
This was the type of loss the conference needs to avoid to improve the chances that 4 or 5 Pac-12 teams get into the tournament.
Stanford won't be the 4th or 5th team at the end of the season, but I am sure the 5th team-to-be is grateful that Stanford didn't embarrass the conference with a really bad loss at home to an Ivy League team.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - pefloresjr - 12-16-2021
We had no business winning that game. Our defense through nearly the entire game was atrocious. We couldn't sustain our position when they drove or moved with the ball and passed to their wide open teammates. Very frustrating. We dominated the OT when Dartmouth finally ran out of gas. I also hope we were just flat and assumed we would be able to turn it on whenever we wanted. Don't get me wrong, Dartmouth played great but we let them run their offense like we were the Washington Generals for way too long in this game. Glad we got it together at the end.
Cheers,
Pete F.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - TonyLima - 12-16-2021
(12-16-2021, 10:24 PM)Madera86 Wrote: Hasse at the next practice (I hope): "No one goes home until they've hit 100 from the line. Real talk."
Endorsed. Maybe 200.
(12-16-2021, 10:59 PM)Farm93 Wrote: This was the type of loss the conference needs to avoid to improve the chances that 4 or 5 Pac-12 teams get into the tournament.
Stanford won't be the 4th or 5th team at the end of the season, but I am sure the 5th team-to-be is grateful that Stanford didn't embarrass the conference with a really bad loss at home to an Ivy League team.
OTOH the Dartmouth coach has a future. Hello Mr. Muir.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - JJJ - 12-16-2021
Catastrophe averted, but only just barely. Let’s focus going forward!
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - BillBradley - 12-17-2021
I don't know how the players are keeping it together. We seem to have a reasonable solid 5 with MOC, DeLaire, Ingraham, Reynaud, and Jones and an improving bench. But for some reason, Haase won't stick with a consistent group and instead continues to do things like start Murrell and Keefe (who played well) and then start Beskind in the second half to "send a message". The only message that is sending is "sorry, I don't really know what I'm doing guys". Keefe played well tonight, so will he stick with him? I'll venture a guess that in another few weeks he's riding pine again. Murrell starts and plays 8 total minutes. It's just so confusing and so hard for the group to get any kind of rhythm.
We finally get the lead at 63-62 at the 4:31 mark. At 1:13, we find ourselves down 74-67. During that 3:18 of elapsed time, here were our subs from the box score:
Taitz Out
O'Connell In
O'Connell Out
Taitz In
Taitz Out
Beskind In
Beskind Out
O'Connell In
DeLaire Out
Taitz In
Taitz Out
DeLaire In
I understand you can sub two players for offense/defense or things like that, but this was overengineering. Why is Beskind even in the game at this point? He made a crucial turnover. And O'Connell was cooking in the second half, but he's being taken off the floor with 4 fouls. Why? There's 3 minutes left in a close game. Put your best players out there! Very frustrating. Makes no sense to me either, Old Spanish Trail.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - teejers1 - 12-17-2021
(12-17-2021, 12:55 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I don't know how the players are keeping it together. We seem to have a reasonable solid 5 with MOC, DeLaire, Ingraham, Reynaud, and Jones and an improving bench. But for some reason, Haase won't stick with a consistent group and instead continues to do things like start Murrell and Keefe (who played well) and then start Beskind in the second half to "send a message". The only message that is sending is "sorry, I don't really know what I'm doing guys". Keefe played well tonight, so will he stick with him? I'll venture a guess that in another few weeks he's riding pine again. Murrell starts and plays 8 total minutes. It's just so confusing and so hard for the group to get any kind of rhythm.
We finally get the lead at 63-62 at the 4:31 mark. At 1:13, we find ourselves down 74-67. During that 3:18 of elapsed time, here were our subs from the box score:
Taitz Out
O'Connell In
O'Connell Out
Taitz In
Taitz Out
Beskind In
Beskind Out
O'Connell In
DeLaire Out
Taitz In
Taitz Out
DeLaire In
I understand you can sub two players for offense/defense or things like that, but this was overengineering. Why is Beskind even in the game at this point? He made a crucial turnover. And O'Connell was cooking in the second half, but he's being taken off the floor with 4 fouls. Why? There's 3 minutes left in a close game. Put your best players out there! Very frustrating. Makes no sense to me either, Old Spanish Trail.
Here is my #1 beef with the game tonight: Haase should have pressured on ball for full court (or at least 3/4 court). The entire game. To wear down the Dartmouth players (especially the 3 or 4 they had who could play). The reason why Dartmouth was so ON FIRE in 1H - and let's face it, they made a TON of shots, including some incredibly well-contested ones - was because they were easily getting the ball up court, at their pace, and initiating the O when and how THEY wanted to. Make them work to get the ball up court, if only to tire them out. Also, I think quickening them up on O would have helped us, as we saw a couple times in the 2H.
Okay, now for a few other observations:
You can piss on Beskind all you want but the guy was nails on D tonight, and that's why he was in the game. At beginning of 2H, he was in for an extended period, and that's when Stanford made its first run to cut into the lead. He also came in later for defensive stoppage purposes. Having said that, I agree that it's not ideal to have him out there for extended play - but he doesn't hurt the team like walkons of yesteryear, imo. He's solid overall (and more than that defensively).
Also agree that you can micromanage subs to the detriment of flow and continuity.
With Delaire, you seemingly take the not-so-good with the good, and he showed it all tonight. Good scoring; missed some key FTs (who didn't?); good defensive sequences (loved the block and rebound against smaller guard in 2H); poor shot selection at times (really didn't like trey early in shot clock when Stanford had come back, then relinquished the lead, and really needed a score to stay close . . . CLANG!). But still, JD showed why he is a key component for this team.
Keefe is springy and he will compete in the Pac 12 on D and "clean up" buckets pretty well. The FTs and mid-range game . . . that's a problem.
Agree that Dartmouth coach "coached 'em up" well tonight. I suspect we deflated their balloon, and that they will struggle on the rest of their west coast swing (including against Cal). We'll see.
I realize Frenchie has great upside, but he was out of sorts tonight and getting bounced around. THAT is going to be the #1 concern with him going forward. He needs to play with force and assertiveness. Suspect he'll get there, but didn't have a problem with him sitting a bunch tonight - he just didn't look sharp.
Maples was a morgue today, and it got morgue-ier and morgue-ier as the reality of a LL to Dartmouth set in (which began in earnest in 2H when Dartmouth built lead back up to 10 points).
In closing . . . WHEW!!
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - BobK - 12-17-2021
I don’t think Reynard is the answer to a solid line up at all.
Haase has never believed in screens for shooters. A mystery but certainly the answer to our average or less three point shooting.
Great play by Angel Must be the Torrey Pines background :)
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - Phogge - 12-17-2021
Haase is a guy riding a stationary bike. And it’s a Costco bike not a Mike’s Bike.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - teejers1 - 12-17-2021
(12-17-2021, 10:06 AM)BobK Wrote: I don’t think Reynard is the answer to a solid line up at all.
Haase has never believed in screens for shooters. A mystery but certainly the answer to our average or less three point shooting.
Great play by Angel Must be the Torrey Pines background :)
When teams switch on screens - which is now becoming almost universal - the notion that you can get shooters open just with screens is antiquated. Does it still happen? Sure, on occasion. Should Stanford screen more than it does to try and free up a shooter? I'd say yes (mainly because I think "mixing up offensive looks" is a good thing). But I also believe that a drive and kick is far more likely to lead to an open outside shot than is some guy running along the baseline rubbing off screens. Even Dartmouth, last night, got most of its open trey looks from drive and kicks (notable exception was baseline inbounds under the hoop play where guard rubbed off multiple screens on way to corner for a monstrous corner trey - that was one helluva play and clutch shot, and the defender closed reasonably well on it, but the rubs freed him up just enough). At least that's my recollection.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - BostonCard - 12-17-2021
(12-17-2021, 10:06 AM)BobK Wrote: I don’t think Reynard is the answer to a solid line up at all.
Haase has never believed in screens for shooters. A mystery but certainly the answer to our average or less three point shooting.
Great play by Angel Must be the Torrey Pines background :)
Was that directed at me?
BC
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - BobK - 12-17-2021
The Torrey Pines part. Of course
:)
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - TriangleTree - 12-17-2021
(12-17-2021, 11:26 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(12-17-2021, 10:06 AM)BobK Wrote: I don’t think Reynard is the answer to a solid line up at all.
Haase has never believed in screens for shooters. A mystery but certainly the answer to our average or less three point shooting.
Great play by Angel Must be the Torrey Pines background :)
Was that directed at me?
BC
FWIW, I do think Reynaud *is* the long term answer to a more solid line-up, but I'm OK with Haase waiting for him to bulk up and get better and situationally getting the most out of our other centers until then.
Reynaud ceiling is much, much higher than that of Kisunas or Keefe and based on the flashes he's shown (fluidity, blocking, passing, shooting form), there's no reason he couldn't be one of the leading centers in the nation in a couple of years time.
Maybe I'm drinking the French cool-aid, but I have high hopes for his development.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - TonyLima - 12-17-2021
(12-17-2021, 02:26 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-17-2021, 12:55 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I don't know how the players are keeping it together. We seem to have a reasonable solid 5 with MOC, DeLaire, Ingraham, Reynaud, and Jones and an improving bench. But for some reason, Haase won't stick with a consistent group and instead continues to do things like start Murrell and Keefe (who played well) and then start Beskind in the second half to "send a message". The only message that is sending is "sorry, I don't really know what I'm doing guys". Keefe played well tonight, so will he stick with him? I'll venture a guess that in another few weeks he's riding pine again. Murrell starts and plays 8 total minutes. It's just so confusing and so hard for the group to get any kind of rhythm.
We finally get the lead at 63-62 at the 4:31 mark. At 1:13, we find ourselves down 74-67. During that 3:18 of elapsed time, here were our subs from the box score:
Taitz Out
O'Connell In
O'Connell Out
Taitz In
Taitz Out
Beskind In
Beskind Out
O'Connell In
DeLaire Out
Taitz In
Taitz Out
DeLaire In
I understand you can sub two players for offense/defense or things like that, but this was overengineering. Why is Beskind even in the game at this point? He made a crucial turnover. And O'Connell was cooking in the second half, but he's being taken off the floor with 4 fouls. Why? There's 3 minutes left in a close game. Put your best players out there! Very frustrating. Makes no sense to me either, Old Spanish Trail.
Here is my #1 beef with the game tonight: Haase should have pressured on ball for full court (or at least 3/4 court). The entire game. To wear down the Dartmouth players (especially the 3 or 4 they had who could play). The reason why Dartmouth was so ON FIRE in 1H - and let's face it, they made a TON of shots, including some incredibly well-contested ones - was because they were easily getting the ball up court, at their pace, and initiating the O when and how THEY wanted to. Make them work to get the ball up court, if only to tire them out. Also, I think quickening them up on O would have helped us, as we saw a couple times in the 2H.
Okay, now for a few other observations:
You can piss on Beskind all you want but the guy was nails on D tonight, and that's why he was in the game. At beginning of 2H, he was in for an extended period, and that's when Stanford made its first run to cut into the lead. He also came in later for defensive stoppage purposes. Having said that, I agree that it's not ideal to have him out there for extended play - but he doesn't hurt the team like walkons of yesteryear, imo. He's solid overall (and more than that defensively).
Also agree that you can micromanage subs to the detriment of flow and continuity.
With Delaire, you seemingly take the not-so-good with the good, and he showed it all tonight. Good scoring; missed some key FTs (who didn't?); good defensive sequences (loved the block and rebound against smaller guard in 2H); poor shot selection at times (really didn't like trey early in shot clock when Stanford had come back, then relinquished the lead, and really needed a score to stay close . . . CLANG!). But still, JD showed why he is a key component for this team.
Keefe is springy and he will compete in the Pac 12 on D and "clean up" buckets pretty well. The FTs and mid-range game . . . that's a problem.
Agree that Dartmouth coach "coached 'em up" well tonight. I suspect we deflated their balloon, and that they will struggle on the rest of their west coast swing (including against Cal). We'll see.
I realize Frenchie has great upside, but he was out of sorts tonight and getting bounced around. THAT is going to be the #1 concern with him going forward. He needs to play with force and assertiveness. Suspect he'll get there, but didn't have a problem with him sitting a bunch tonight - he just didn't look sharp.
Maples was a morgue today, and it got morgue-ier and morgue-ier as the reality of a LL to Dartmouth set in (which began in earnest in 2H when Dartmouth built lead back up to 10 points).
In closing . . . WHEW!!
Bet you a nickel that Dartmouth beats Cal.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - BostonCard - 12-17-2021
(12-17-2021, 12:33 PM)BobK Wrote: The Torrey Pines part. Of course
:)
If you saw me playing “basketball” you’d know that the school has no influence in basketball ability, though maybe if I had been there four years, I’d have picked some modicum of ability up.
BC
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - GK3 - 12-18-2021
(12-17-2021, 11:26 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-17-2021, 10:06 AM)BobK Wrote: I don’t think Reynard is the answer to a solid line up at all.
Haase has never believed in screens for shooters. A mystery but certainly the answer to our average or less three point shooting.
Great play by Angel Must be the Torrey Pines background :)
When teams switch on screens - which is now becoming almost universal - the notion that you can get shooters open just with screens is antiquated. Does it still happen? Sure, on occasion. Should Stanford screen more than it does to try and free up a shooter? I'd say yes (mainly because I think "mixing up offensive looks" is a good thing). But I also believe that a drive and kick is far more likely to lead to an open outside shot than is some guy running along the baseline rubbing off screens. Even Dartmouth, last night, got most of its open trey looks from drive and kicks (notable exception was baseline inbounds under the hoop play where guard rubbed off multiple screens on way to corner for a monstrous corner trey - that was one helluva play and clutch shot, and the defender closed reasonably well on it, but the rubs freed him up just enough). At least that's my recollection.
During the first part of our 2nd half comeback, the 5 on the court were MOC, JD, Keefe, Taitz and Angel. When MOC got his fourth foul HI returned and helped finish out the comeback. In overtime we pulled Keefe out to the top of the key and Angel posted his guy up inside and they had no answer for that. Surprised we didn't do that early on; maybe we did and it just didn't work. Taitz and Angel got a lot of playing time during critical parts of the game and that will stand them in good stead later on in the season I am sure.
RE: MBB: Stanford 89 vs Dartmouth 78 (OT) - Hurlburt88 - 12-18-2021
Bob, curious for specifics on why you don't see Reynaud as part of solid line-up, and if that is more of a this-year assessment or longer term?