limited fan attendance at athletic events - Printable Version
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RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - crackpot - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 02:29 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: My point is, this should be enough. There is no reason to limit attendance with those measures in place. None. I mean the fact is Omicron isn't even as destructive for un-vax'd as Delta or other earlier Covid-19 versions. It just isn't. Stanford is effectively telling people to stay away because they might catch a cold.
LOL. Still shuddering thinking of the game where a girl sitting in front of me vomited profusely a couple of minutes into the game and her dad waited until halftime to leave (and, no, he didn't clean up the mess). I wish I had a mask then.
Maples was one of the places I felt safest. I'm glad to do what we need to do to keep the SAs safe, but, uh, the same can't be said for our opponents. Watching the game at Tennessee gave me the heebie-jeebies.
TBH, I was more scared of the risk I was taking driving there (increasing my chances of getting in an accident and, perhaps, encountering an at-capacity hospital).
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - teejers1 - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 02:54 PM)BobK Wrote: Several weeks ago Stanford announced students are allowed on campus abd they arrived now but on line classes for two weeks. Two weeks as of now
Just the facts please.
Facts as in your declaration that the fan attendance ban is "appropriate?" C'mon now.
Outsider hits the main points. If you're THAT concerned about Omicron, don't go to the games, Bob.
And the people talking about transmission between fans and players - have you actually attended games at Maples? If that's really a concern (and not something just made up), then have a 2-3 row buffer between bench and stands. There are thousands and thousands of empties at women's games and at the men's games. Social distancing is not a problem - hell, I've had my own row in the lower bowl end zone for all the men's games and a couple of the women's games.
Young people aren't getting really sick; vaxxed people aren't getting really sick; if you're old and unvaxxed, then maybe YOU shouldn't go the games. Good effing grief.
And if Stanford wants to penalize its students (who, btw, largely are NOT attending games at Maples), whatever. But don't penalize the paying STH.
Lastly, yes, I noticed that line about the AD contacting those who bought tickets down the road. But it was an opaque allusion, and Bernie could have readily said "All paying ticketholders will be eligible for a refund for all games either not played at Maples due to Covid or played at Maples w/o fans." But of course, Bernie did not do that. I suspect it's because they don't want to make any assurances along those lines.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - Phogge - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 02:54 PM)BobK Wrote: Several weeks ago Stanford announced students are allowed on campus abd they arrived now but on line classes for two weeks. Two weeks as of now
Just the facts please.
I knew it! Bobbbbbbbb was Jack Webb's understudy.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - chimera - 01-04-2022
What, I can't go to a couple of basketball games!!!???!!! I have to watch on TV?!?!? Oh the humanity!!
Actually despite being vaxxed and boosted, I had already decided not to go because A. Long COVID is still a thing and there is uncertainty as to how often even mild cases of Omicron cause it. B. I do not want to bring it to my 87-year-old mother, who is vaxxed and boosted but still 87 is 87, and C. the thing is spreading like wildfire now, better to do my part to slow that down by avoiding crowds unless I can't help it. In this case, I can help it. Can we infect players if let's say 5% of the crowd is asymptomatic and infectious, sitting for 2 hours and occasionally eating or drinking? I don't know, but why take a chance?
Omicron is still very dangerous for the unvaccinated, slightly milder or not, and who wants to get sick even for a week or whatever? Cloth masks like many use are said to be not very good against Omicron, which can linger in the air. With infection rates so high there is no chance that out of a couple thousand people nobody is contagious. I don't think this is unreasonable to play without fans until things calm down. I'm sure we will get a refund if we wish it. I understand that people want to go to games. We all do. I don't understand why missing a few during a pandemic is that big a deal. This is not exactly a big sacrifice.
And all that said, I am 100%, without a doubt, out of this thread and conversation. See you all next time we can go to games safely. Peace!
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - cardcrimson - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 04:56 PM)chimera Wrote: What, I can't go to a couple of basketball games!!!???!!! I have to watch on TV?!?!? Oh the humanity!!
Actually despite being vaxxed and boosted, I had already decided not to go because A. Long COVID is still a thing and there is uncertainty as to how often even mild cases of Omicron cause it. B. I do not want to bring it to my 87-year-old mother, who is vaxxed and boosted but still 87 is 87, and C. the thing is spreading like wildfire now, better to do my part to slow that down by avoiding crowds unless I can't help it. In this case, I can help it. Can we infect players if let's say 5% of the crowd is asymptomatic and infectious, sitting for 2 hours and occasionally eating or drinking? I don't know, but why take a chance?
Omicron is still very dangerous for the unvaccinated, slightly milder or not, and who wants to get sick even for a week or whatever? Cloth masks like many use are said to be not very good against Omicron, which can linger in the air. With infection rates so high there is no chance that out of a couple thousand people nobody is contagious. I don't think this is unreasonable to play without fans until things calm down. I'm sure we will get a refund if we wish it. I understand that people want to go to games. We all do. I don't understand why missing a few during a pandemic is that big a deal. This is not exactly a big sacrifice.
And all that said, I am 100%, without a doubt, out of this thread and conversation. See you all next time we can go to games safely. Peace!
All valid points (though all of the variants lingered in the air) until your last line. Perhaps it's a pet peeve of mine, but I can't ever understand someone making a lengthy post sharing their views, then finishing it by basically saying I'm done and not going to listen to anyone else's opinions. Happens all too often on boards (and in life); I just don't understand it. . . .
And this isn't meant as an attack, just an observation.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - Griffins78 - 01-04-2022
This is about protecting the players and their season. Even if they don't die from Covid, their season could, if they lose games because players miss games with Covid.
I had decided it wasn't worth my health risk to attend this week. But the way the fans yell and not all are wearing masks - I'm glad the AD decided to ban all fans. I want our teams to keep playing more than I want to see them in person.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - chrisk - 01-04-2022
The "good news" is that the UCLA game is postponed, so that fans may be allowed when the game is rescheduled.
leftcoast - Leftcoast - 01-04-2022
Like Chimera, I support the ADs precautions.
Covid just hit our vacc’ed, boosted, and frequently tested household. I’m very glad I don’t have the worry that we possibly spread it unknowingly to a basketball crowd. We’d planned to attend the Cal game immediately before the positive test but didn’t due to the cancelation. Seeing the most recent Santa Clara stats there’s a good chance the game would have been a super-spreader event.
This just got very real for us.
(I’m confident the immediate fam will sail through this but more concerned about the seniors who visited during the holidays)
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - chimera - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 06:05 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(01-04-2022, 04:56 PM)chimera Wrote: What, I can't go to a couple of basketball games!!!???!!! I have to watch on TV?!?!? Oh the humanity!!
Actually despite being vaxxed and boosted, I had already decided not to go because A. Long COVID is still a thing and there is uncertainty as to how often even mild cases of Omicron cause it. B. I do not want to bring it to my 87-year-old mother, who is vaxxed and boosted but still 87 is 87, and C. the thing is spreading like wildfire now, better to do my part to slow that down by avoiding crowds unless I can't help it. In this case, I can help it. Can we infect players if let's say 5% of the crowd is asymptomatic and infectious, sitting for 2 hours and occasionally eating or drinking? I don't know, but why take a chance?
Omicron is still very dangerous for the unvaccinated, slightly milder or not, and who wants to get sick even for a week or whatever? Cloth masks like many use are said to be not very good against Omicron, which can linger in the air. With infection rates so high there is no chance that out of a couple thousand people nobody is contagious. I don't think this is unreasonable to play without fans until things calm down. I'm sure we will get a refund if we wish it. I understand that people want to go to games. We all do. I don't understand why missing a few during a pandemic is that big a deal. This is not exactly a big sacrifice.
And all that said, I am 100%, without a doubt, out of this thread and conversation. See you all next time we can go to games safely. Peace!
All valid points (though all of the variants lingered in the air) until your last line. Perhaps it's a pet peeve of mine, but I can't ever understand someone making a lengthy post sharing their views, then finishing it by basically saying I'm done and not going to listen to anyone else's opinions. Happens all too often on boards (and in life); I just don't understand it. . . .
And this isn't meant as an attack, just an observation.
Sorry, just trying to avoid a back and forth about COVID given the politics of it. I do not want to get into that. Other things I am happy to debate, just not this stuff. So I said my piece and am staying out of it after.
RE: leftcoast - cardcrimson - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 07:15 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: Like Chimera, I support the ADs precautions.Be well. You, yours and the seniors.
Covid just hit our vacc’ed, boosted, and frequently tested household. I’m very glad I don’t have the worry that we possibly spread it unknowingly to a basketball crowd. We’d planned to attend the Cal game immediately before the positive test but didn’t due to the cancelation. Seeing the most recent Santa Clara stats there’s a good chance the game would have been a super-spreader event.
This just got very real for us.
(I’m confident the immediate fam will sail through this but more concerned about the seniors who visited during the holidays)
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - teejers1 - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 06:51 PM)chrisk Wrote: The "good news" is that the UCLA game is postponed, so that fans may be allowed when the game is rescheduled.
The better news is all the people who support confining everyone to home to slow down Omicron can go horde essentials like TP, paper towels, hand wipes, etc. because, you know, all they're concerned about is the public's welfare . . .
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - OutsiderFan - 01-05-2022
Based on the responses, it seems the greater point is being missed, well there are two actually:
1. Omicron isn't nearly as damaging to health as the previous Covid versions
2. Everyone is going to get exposed to it, and many will be infected without ever knowing *
* The notion only family of players can attend under the guise of protecting player health, is cosmically stupid when you consider everyone is getting exposed. That means those family members will be too, and they will be infecting players, even when unrelated fan locked out of the building are not.
Omicron impacts are so mild it seems like we might all be better off getting exposed to Omicron to create herd immunity with potential to end the pandemic, or at least get us to a place where we can live with it like the other cold viruses out there. It wasn't smart to do this when the virus was so novel before vaccine. But now that the "novelness" is gone, so many are vax'd, and hospitalizations aren't surging at a high rate with infections in heavily vax'd populations like SCC, it is. And like I inferred, this is going to happen anyway, whether we like it or not.
Finally, the data from South Africa shows the Omicron surge is tremendous in terms of creating infections at rapid rate, but it doesn't last long. In two weeks the numbers will start coming down precipitously, so these "stay away" policies will be in place when the surge is rapidly dissipating, and in place to protects against a threat that doesn't exist. Stanford isn't going to change its policy two weeks after implementing it, so it will have cost itself at least a month of basketball attendance for basically nothing.
To recap:
1. Omicron isn't that damaging to individual health or medical system
2. Everyone is going to get infected/exposed to it because of its exceptional infectivity
3. SCC is one of the highest vax'd populations in the world
4. The first three points demonstrate shutdowns in SCC will do more harm than good to whoever is shutting down
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - BobK - 01-05-2022
https://pac-12.com/article/2022/01/04/usc-indoor-home-athletics-events-closed-general-public-through-jan-14
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - winflop - 01-05-2022
(01-04-2022, 12:45 PM)82lsju Wrote:Quote:Policy Update (Jan. 4)
Stanford Athletics announced winter sports attendance policy changes due to additional COVID-19 safety precautions. Spectator attendance at all winter events taking place indoors will be temporarily reduced to a limited number of student-athlete family and guests. Spectators at outdoor events will be seated with social distancing and will be required to wear a mask.
These policy changes are effective immediately. Full spectator attendance for all events will resume as soon as appropriate, and will be communicated through Stanford Athletics' social media channels, direct emails to Season Ticket Members and on GoStanford.com/attendance.
https://gostanford.com/news/2021/8/27/athletics-2021-22-fan-attendance-policies.aspx
I feel badly for WBB, but for MBB it's really not a material change.
But seriously, this is a stupid decision with no basis in scientific fact. It's paranoia about infections, that for the vaccinated (over 90% of the Stanford community) is less risky than seasonal flu. People seem to forget that pre-COVID, seasonal flu killed an average of 50,000 Americans per year. If they weren't going to do this for the flu, they shouldn't do it now.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - Phogge - 01-05-2022
(01-04-2022, 11:00 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(01-04-2022, 06:51 PM)chrisk Wrote: The "good news" is that the UCLA game is postponed, so that fans may be allowed when the game is rescheduled.
The better news is all the people who support confining everyone to home to slow down Omicron can go horde essentials like TP, paper towels, hand wipes, etc. because, you know, all they're concerned about is the public's welfare . . .
Hey, I’ve got hydrangea leaves for the toilet. I will however go crazy if coffee beans start to get scarce.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - pefloresjr - 01-05-2022
The problem with some of the criticism of Stanford's decision is that it is based on the seemingly obvious, doubtless conclusion that Omicron causes less serious infections in all populations. However, that is far from established. Not enough is known about the way it impacts the US population and nothing is known about potential long term effects from Omicron because we know that prior strains sometimes caused long term effects even with seemingly "minor" infections. The evidence may well lead to the conclusion that cutting down on large indoor gatherings is not needed but I am perfectly fine with Stanford taking a cautious approach. Stanford clearly wants to take the first two weeks of this quarter to try to limit spread caused by students returning from around the world. That may not be possible with Omicron, but, again, I am fine with Stanford taking extra precautions to try to protect the community. I don't know why people seem to think these changes are permanent when Stanford changed its attendance policies based on the changing conditions over the last year. Some think they were too conservative, but they obviously decided to take the careful path. I am absolutely fine with it and am sure I will get a refund for the games that I am not allowed to attend.
Cheers,
Pete F.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - cardcrimson - 01-05-2022
. . . .and here comes IHU!
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/new-covid-19-variant-discovered-in-france/
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - dabigv13 - 01-05-2022
IMHO Omicron is the last gasp of pandemic covid before it starts acting like an endemic disease.
If you are restricting access to reduce chance of players getting covid because of the risk of absences from covid protocols, that makes some sense, though they better be extremely careful off the court as well.
Society is going to need to learn to not care about or test for covid in a routine way like we are doing now, because it is never going away but will also just be another common cold.
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - OutsiderFan - 01-05-2022
(01-05-2022, 11:55 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: IMHO Omicron is the last gasp of pandemic covid before it starts acting like an endemic disease.
If you are restricting access to reduce chance of players getting covid because of the risk of absences from covid protocols, that makes some sense, though they better be extremely careful off the court as well.
Society is going to need to learn to not care about or test for covid in a routine way like we are doing now, because it is never going away but will also just be another common cold.
![[Image: giphy360p.mp4?cid=ecf05e47g4me7shjw1r1at...ct=v&cc=en]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/8VDO7Fy2PFohfdAnpJ/giphy360p.mp4?cid=ecf05e47g4me7shjw1r1atvo37seqdrsnp4s1illuuyarnrm&rid=giphy360p.mp4&ct=v&cc=en)
RE: limited fan attendance at athletic events - winflop - 01-05-2022
(01-05-2022, 10:30 AM)pefloresjr Wrote: The problem with some of the criticism of Stanford's decision is that it is based on the seemingly obvious, doubtless conclusion that Omicron causes less serious infections in all populations. However, that is far from established. Not enough is known about the way it impacts the US population and nothing is known about potential long term effects from Omicron because we know that prior strains sometimes caused long term effects even with seemingly "minor" infections. The evidence may well lead to the conclusion that cutting down on large indoor gatherings is not needed but I am perfectly fine with Stanford taking a cautious approach. Stanford clearly wants to take the first two weeks of this quarter to try to limit spread caused by students returning from around the world. That may not be possible with Omicron, but, again, I am fine with Stanford taking extra precautions to try to protect the community. I don't know why people seem to think these changes are permanent when Stanford changed its attendance policies based on the changing conditions over the last year. Some think they were too conservative, but they obviously decided to take the careful path. I am absolutely fine with it and am sure I will get a refund for the games that I am not allowed to attend.
Cheers,
Pete F.
Sorry Pete but I respectfully disagree with your assertion that the severity of Omicron is far from established. If you look at the public data from South Africa, a few things jump out:
- It's an order of magnitude more transmissible, and it doesn't matter much whether you're vaccinated or not in terms of catching it
- If you get it and you're vaccinated, your risk of hospitalization or death is LOWER than seasonal flu
- If you're not vaccinated, your risk of hospitalization or death is HIGHER than seasonal flu but not by a lot
If Stanford weren't going to stop fans over season flu, it shouldn't stop them over omicron.
Also, it's utterly shameful of Muir to not come out and simply state "we will refund all tickets to all events our fans are unable to attend due to this policy or game cancellations due to a team's unavailability to play."