The Play - Printable Version
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RE: The Play - cardcrimson - 07-01-2022
(07-01-2022, 04:09 PM)Tyler Bridges Wrote: His arms out stretched out, looking like an airplane, not above his head
Yes. Why would a ref have his arms stretched if he weren't signaling the play dead? That is the motion, isn't it?
(07-01-2022, 04:19 PM)lex24 Wrote: One of the things that gets lost is Elway called time out too early. 8 seconds, I believe. He put his hands to his helmet right after. I always wondered if that was just the wow of the moment. Or if he knew he’d called it to quick. I suspect the former.
Also, didn’t a few Cal players drift onto the field? Stanford certainly had some that did. Stanford was gonna be penalized, thus an extra play. Always wondered about offsetting.
Revisionist history perhaps, but extra time in case of a bungled snap. . . .
And yes, both Cal players and Stanford players drifted onto the field. As did the Cal band at the far end. Why? Because the ref signaled the play dead when the knee hit the ground. . . .
RE: lex24 - Embo - 07-01-2022
On the old Bootleg board, many years ago (I believe it was during the peak years of Stanford Men's BB national prominence under Monty), there was a thread about The Play. A poster said he happened upon Mark Harmon watching a game at Maples in 1982. He wrote that Harmon said that he told a coach (either the OC or special teams coach) that he wanted to kick it deep. The coach overruled him, demanding he squib it. The rest is history.
I take it you interviewed Harmon. Did you get that story as well?
RE: The Play - BigEasyCard - 10-28-2022
Here's an article in New Orleans newspaper on "Five Laterals and a Trombone":
'Most fantastic moment' in college football shines in richly documented book by Tyler Bridges | Entertainment/Life | nola.com
Geaux Cardinal!
RE: The Play - CTcard - 10-28-2022
(07-01-2022, 04:25 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(07-01-2022, 04:19 PM)lex24 Wrote: One of the things that gets lost is Elway called time out too early. 8 seconds, I believe.
Revisionist history perhaps, but extra time in case of a bungled snap. . . .
It seems that with some regularity football commentators state something about trying for a winning field goal on third down so that there is a chance for a redo on fourth.
I have watched a lot of football over the years, not once have I ever seen a bungled snap, or any other problem, that cause a team trying a FG to fall on the ball and try again the next down.
RE: The Play - gailtate - 10-28-2022
(06-30-2022, 08:19 AM)Tyler Bridges Wrote: It was an unhappy outcome for Stanford fans. But there's an amazing story behind The Play, and I tell it in my upcoming book. I'm a 1982 grad who played in the LSJUMB. For the book, I interviewed 375 people (coaches and players for both teams, members of both bands, referees, 21 of the 22 players on the field for The Play), reviewed more than 1,500 newspaper articles on the 1982 season for both teams and watched all the available footage. John Elway and Ron Rivera have written the forewords. Rod Gilmore, Ivan Maisel and Gary Tyrrell have written blurbs praising the book. So have three Cal folks, including Gary Plummer and Joe Starkey. Pub date is Nov. 1. You can pre-order it now. https://www.amazon.com/Five-Laterals-Trombone-Stanford-Football/dp/1637271158
Good luck! My son was one of your interviewees. He looks forward to publication.
RE: lex24 - Red80 - 10-28-2022
(07-01-2022, 04:19 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-01-2022, 04:09 PM)Tyler Bridges Wrote:(07-01-2022, 01:57 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Tyler, did you interview either of the KZSU announcers, Joe Mitchner or Jim Grundberg? They reminded listeners before the final kickoff about the ending of the previous week's SMU-Texas Tech game with a kickoff return lateral play working for a TD at the end of the game to pull out a win for the Mustangs. It was a prescient observation.They're in the book!
The first player to take the field after Garner was tackled was Cal QB Gale Gilbert. Garner went down right in front of him.
(07-01-2022, 02:04 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:His arms out stretched out, looking like an airplane, not above his head(07-01-2022, 01:53 PM)Red80 Wrote:That's the photo, the ref looked like he was flying down the field. Was in the Daily, as well. I have it somewhere. If memory serves, a grad student happened to snap the pic while the play was unfolding. Forgot about it until he/she developed the film weeks/months later.(07-01-2022, 01:17 PM)Tyler Bridges Wrote: I've seen no video of a ref calling the play dead. There's a photo of a ref with his arms by his side.
I have a copy of the SF Chronicle showing a ref with his outstretched hands signaling that the play was over.
One of the things that gets lost is Elway called time out too early. 8 seconds, I believe. He put his hands to his helmet right after. I always wondered if that was just the wow of the moment. Or if he knew he’d called it to quick. I suspect the former.
Also, didn’t a few Cal players drift onto the field? Stanford certainly had some that did. Stanford was gonna be penalized, thus an extra play. Always wondered about offsetting.
RE: The Play - gailtate - 10-28-2022
I was with my season ticket cohort in a Stanford section on about the 10-15 yard-line, east side. My overall reaction was simmering anger, not about the outcome of the game so much as the state of football under the hapless direction of Paul Wiggin. This game, to me and my posse, was the Last Straw. No win, no HT, no Peach Bowl. We left the stadium in a caravan to Spenger's, where we stared into our chowder, ruminating on the prospect of another season of futility in 1983 with belligerent weenies howling at the TV screens and the endless loops of the replay. I wrote letters the next day to Geiger and Donald Kennedy, demanding Wiggen's dismissal. Never heard from Ferdinand. Kennedy responded with pecksniffian haughtiness. Typical. Not a good day. The eats at Spenger's were pretty good, however.
RE: The Play - Red80 - 10-28-2022
(06-30-2022, 08:19 AM)Tyler Bridges Wrote: It was an unhappy outcome for Stanford fans. But there's an amazing story behind The Play, and I tell it in my upcoming book. I'm a 1982 grad who played in the LSJUMB. For the book, I interviewed 375 people (coaches and players for both teams, members of both bands, referees, 21 of the 22 players on the field for The Play), reviewed more than 1,500 newspaper articles on the 1982 season for both teams and watched all the available footage. John Elway and Ron Rivera have written the forewords. Rod Gilmore, Ivan Maisel and Gary Tyrrell have written blurbs praising the book. So have three Cal folks, including Gary Plummer and Joe Starkey. Pub date is Nov. 1. You can pre-order it now. https://www.amazon.com/Five-Laterals-Trombone-Stanford-Football/dp/1637271158
Did anyone listen to Ron Barr's call of The Play? I didn't attend the game (I have an unused ticket that I could probably sell for major $ on eBay) and listened on KSFO.
Barr's call could not have been more different than Starkey's. He expressed no concern or emotion as he called the action. Something like, "...and Garner is down at...no, the play is still alive...there's another lateral...Ford is now running...there's another lateral...(chuckling)...a Cal player is now running through the Stanford band...there are flags all over the field...Kevin Moen is in the end zone...but I'm sure this play is coming back."
I remember how deflated Barr sounded when he said the ref had signaled TD after a brief discussion.
20 years ago Barr was asked if he thought the call was correct. His response was not what I expected. He said he thought the refs made the right call. Why? He said that he feared an ugly riot would have ensued if the refs had disallowed the TD. Maybe.
RE: The Play - OutsiderFan - 10-28-2022
(10-28-2022, 02:15 PM)Red80 Wrote:(06-30-2022, 08:19 AM)Tyler Bridges Wrote: It was an unhappy outcome for Stanford fans. But there's an amazing story behind The Play, and I tell it in my upcoming book. I'm a 1982 grad who played in the LSJUMB. For the book, I interviewed 375 people (coaches and players for both teams, members of both bands, referees, 21 of the 22 players on the field for The Play), reviewed more than 1,500 newspaper articles on the 1982 season for both teams and watched all the available footage. John Elway and Ron Rivera have written the forewords. Rod Gilmore, Ivan Maisel and Gary Tyrrell have written blurbs praising the book. So have three Cal folks, including Gary Plummer and Joe Starkey. Pub date is Nov. 1. You can pre-order it now. https://www.amazon.com/Five-Laterals-Trombone-Stanford-Football/dp/1637271158
Did anyone listen to Ron Barr's call of The Play? I didn't attend the game (I have an unused ticket that I could probably sell for major $ on eBay) and listened on KSFO.
Barr's call could not have been more different than Starkey's. He expressed no concern or emotion as he called the action. Something like, "...and Garner is down at...no, the play is still alive...there's another lateral...Ford is now running...there's another lateral...(chuckling)...a Cal player is now running through the Stanford band...there are flags all over the field...Kevin Moen is in the end zone...but I'm sure this play is coming back."
I remember how deflated Barr sounded when he said the ref had signaled TD after a brief discussion.
20 years ago Barr was asked if he thought the call was correct. His response was not what I expected. He said he thought the refs made the right call. Why? He said that he feared an ugly riot would have ensued if the refs had disallowed the TD. Maybe.
Is there a recording of it? The Starkey call is one of the worst in the history of sports, if you think a radio play-by-play announcer's job is to actually describe to the listener what is happening on the field.
It's a microcosm of how terrible he has always been at letting listeners know WTF is happening in all Cal games he has done. Interestingly, I never remember his Niners calls being nearly as bad as his Cal ones.
RE: The Play - Brickcity - 10-28-2022
(10-28-2022, 02:27 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-28-2022, 02:15 PM)Red80 Wrote:(06-30-2022, 08:19 AM)Tyler Bridges Wrote: It was an unhappy outcome for Stanford fans. But there's an amazing story behind The Play, and I tell it in my upcoming book. I'm a 1982 grad who played in the LSJUMB. For the book, I interviewed 375 people (coaches and players for both teams, members of both bands, referees, 21 of the 22 players on the field for The Play), reviewed more than 1,500 newspaper articles on the 1982 season for both teams and watched all the available footage. John Elway and Ron Rivera have written the forewords. Rod Gilmore, Ivan Maisel and Gary Tyrrell have written blurbs praising the book. So have three Cal folks, including Gary Plummer and Joe Starkey. Pub date is Nov. 1. You can pre-order it now. https://www.amazon.com/Five-Laterals-Trombone-Stanford-Football/dp/1637271158
Did anyone listen to Ron Barr's call of The Play? I didn't attend the game (I have an unused ticket that I could probably sell for major $ on eBay) and listened on KSFO.
Barr's call could not have been more different than Starkey's. He expressed no concern or emotion as he called the action. Something like, "...and Garner is down at...no, the play is still alive...there's another lateral...Ford is now running...there's another lateral...(chuckling)...a Cal player is now running through the Stanford band...there are flags all over the field...Kevin Moen is in the end zone...but I'm sure this play is coming back."
I remember how deflated Barr sounded when he said the ref had signaled TD after a brief discussion.
20 years ago Barr was asked if he thought the call was correct. His response was not what I expected. He said he thought the refs made the right call. Why? He said that he feared an ugly riot would have ensued if the refs had disallowed the TD. Maybe.
Is there a recording of it? The Starkey call is one of the worst in the history of sports, if you think a radio play-by-play announcer's job is to actually describe to the listener what is happening on the field.
It's a microcosm of how terrible he has always been at letting listeners know WTF is happening in all Cal games he has done. Interestingly, I never remember his Niners calls being nearly as bad as his Cal ones.
All true, but he did share that trait with one...dare I call him out...Bob Murphy. Especially for basketball games. I felt a combination of frustration and amusement listening to him in his later years.
RE: The Play - jacket3ree - 10-28-2022
(10-28-2022, 01:05 PM)CTcard Wrote:(07-01-2022, 04:25 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(07-01-2022, 04:19 PM)lex24 Wrote: One of the things that gets lost is Elway called time out too early. 8 seconds, I believe.
Revisionist history perhaps, but extra time in case of a bungled snap. . . .
It seems that with some regularity football commentators state something about trying for a winning field goal on third down so that there is a chance for a redo on fourth.
I have watched a lot of football over the years, not once have I ever seen a bungled snap, or any other problem, that cause a team trying a FG to fall on the ball and try again the next down.
Asked and answered counselor:
Take that Dwags!
GT did just that the last time (sadly) they beat the heathens in ATL. That was 23 years ago. Granted, it was in OT, so time wasn't a factor, but Tech knew to kick on 3rd down and George Godsey knew to get the live ball while the idiots in red were clueless.
The Play has always been interesting to me. We saw highlights in Atlanta at the end of a football Saturday. Tech was away in Winston Salem, and we didn't make the roadie, so watched on a horrible TV. Some team in brown kept the ball alive thru some teaming wearing a creamy yellow jersey on a blue field, ending with some dude in the band getting destroyed. Hi-larious and promptly forgotten before figuring out how to waste the evening. No recollection of that.
Fast forward two plus years and I'm in the Bay Area choosing between Cal and Stanford for grad school, having eliminated MIT simply because my dad went there and strongly advised against it. I had no idea that forgotten play was between the two schools. Cal offered admission. Stanford offered admission, a teaching assistantship, and a full fellowship. Plus with a quarter system I could work a full summer. (GT was on quarters at the time.) No brainer.
One of my apartment-mates was a Cal undergrad doing graduate work at Stanford. He was stoked before the game and forced us to watch a reply of 1982. The whole thing. Not forced per se, but there were beers and a couch, so why not? This was on a TV with correct color and tint. I had no recollection of The Play from that 60 second highlight now three years prior. Wow, this is a good game. Oh hey, I think I've seen this once before. That's Cal-Stanford? We spent the night in SF and rolled straight from there into the game so late that we sat in those seats that were parallel to the track straight-away. Stanford was way in front and held off the Bears because they missed an extra point or field goal or something. Then Cal-guy's Cal friends danced with our dates and we called it a night in the pouring rain.
Two years later I'm dating Calfan who has been immersed in all things Berkeley since the age of five.
Thirty five years later Calfanwife and I are cleaning out her childhood home to prepare it for the trust sale. There's that picture of Moen barreling into Gary that has been part of my existence since I met her. Nothing but me and the den and a bin. I 86'd the pic.
RE: The Play - lex24 - 10-28-2022
(10-28-2022, 06:10 PM)jacket3ree Wrote:(10-28-2022, 01:05 PM)CTcard Wrote:(07-01-2022, 04:25 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(07-01-2022, 04:19 PM)lex24 Wrote: One of the things that gets lost is Elway called time out too early. 8 seconds, I believe.
Revisionist history perhaps, but extra time in case of a bungled snap. . . .
It seems that with some regularity football commentators state something about trying for a winning field goal on third down so that there is a chance for a redo on fourth.
I have watched a lot of football over the years, not once have I ever seen a bungled snap, or any other problem, that cause a team trying a FG to fall on the ball and try again the next down.
Asked and answered counselor:
Take that Dwags!
GT did just that the last time (sadly) they beat the heathens in ATL. That was 23 years ago. Granted, it was in OT, so time wasn't a factor, but Tech knew to kick on 3rd down and George Godsey knew to get the live ball while the idiots in red were clueless.
The Play has always been interesting to me. We saw highlights in Atlanta at the end of a football Saturday. Tech was away in Winston Salem, and we didn't make the roadie, so watched on a horrible TV. Some team in brown kept the ball alive thru some teaming wearing a creamy yellow jersey on a blue field, ending with some dude in the band getting destroyed. Hi-larious and promptly forgotten before figuring out how to waste the evening. No recollection of that.
Fast forward two plus years and I'm in the Bay Area choosing between Cal and Stanford for grad school, having eliminated MIT simply because my dad went there and strongly advised against it. I had no idea that forgotten play was between the two schools. Cal offered admission. Stanford offered admission, a teaching assistantship, and a full fellowship. Plus with a quarter system I could work a full summer. (GT was on quarters at the time.) No brainer.
One of my apartment-mates was a Cal undergrad doing graduate work at Stanford. He was stoked before the game and forced us to watch a reply of 1982. The whole thing. Not forced per se, but there were beers and a couch, so why not? This was on a TV with correct color and tint. I had no recollection of The Play from that 60 second highlight now three years prior. Wow, this is a good game. Oh hey, I think I've seen this once before. That's Cal-Stanford? We spent the night in SF and rolled straight from there into the game so late that we sat in those seats that were parallel to the track straight-away. Stanford was way in front and held off the Bears because they missed an extra point or field goal or something. Then Cal-guy's Cal friends danced with our dates and we called it a night in the pouring rain.
Two years later I'm dating Calfan who has been immersed in all things Berkeley since the age of five.
Thirty five years later Calfanwife and I are cleaning out her childhood home to prepare it for the trust sale. There's that picture of Moen barreling into Gary that has been part of my existence since I met her. Nothing but me and the den and a bin. I 86'd the pic.
What a great post. If you don’t write for a living, you should.
RE: The Play - winflop - 10-28-2022
Please refer to this horrific travesty of justice by its proper name: The Robbery :)))))))
RE: The Play - Phogge - 10-28-2022
Joe Starkey.Yikes!
RE: The Play - 81alum - 10-29-2022
(10-28-2022, 02:10 PM)gailtate Wrote: The eats at Spenger's were pretty good, however.The closing of Spengers in 2018--pre COVID no less--was a travesty. Not quite as much a travesty as The Play.
RE: The Play - gailtate - 10-29-2022
(10-29-2022, 07:59 AM)81alum Wrote:(10-28-2022, 02:10 PM)gailtate Wrote: The eats at Spenger's were pretty good, however.The closing of Spengers in 2018--pre COVID no less--was a travesty. Not quite as much a travesty as The Play.
Both are almost as inexcusable as losing the "O".
RE: The Play - Hank 91 - 11-08-2022
Hey, all. It's been a while! Anyway, yesterday I was lucky enough to interview Tyler about his book, and it was great fun. The book is tremendous, even if the outcome isn't. I learned a lot that I hadn't known, and many of the tidbits that are mentioned in this thread show up in the book. I highly recommend it.
I'll be posting our interview on the Monday of Big Game week. (We call this "building buzz.")
RE: The Play - JJJ - 11-08-2022
I received my book and am looking forward to diving in!
RE: The Play - Genuine Realist - 11-08-2022
I was still going to Berkeley for Big Games in those days, and by coincidence had the best seats I ever had for any game. These were about the 40 yard line, on the side on which Stanford kicked off. The Cal player - I forget his name and I'm not going to look it up - apparently was stopped with knees down. The ref came up and CLEARLY - UNAMBIGUOUSLY - waved his arms to signal end of the game. Then he got interested in what was happening on the other side of the field, after the lateral, ran off, and forgot about it. I guess he didn't have the guts to assert his authority after the fantasy that developed.
But the Play is only half the story. I think people forget what a genius Wiggin had for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. After Harmon kicked the apparent winner, the Stanford players ran onto the field and rejoiced, drawing a 15 yard penalty ang giving Cal a ghost of a chance. That would be pretty poor in any circumstance, but they'd done the same damn thing only six weeks earlier, gave Arizona State new life, and were beaten on a last second drive. You'd think a head coach would have the common sense to warn his players not to repeat the offense, have his assistants roam the sideline, but that was not Wiggin. He just stood there and got burned a second time.
As I sat there, my big worry for Stanford was that - if they squibbed it - a Cal player might fall on the ball, call time, and they'd be within distant field goal range. That would have been how the game should have ended, Wiggin would have been fired unceremoniously the next day, and that would be that. A few weeks later, I spotted Mark Harmon at a basketball game, went up to him, introduced myself, congratulated him on a fine season, and commiserated that he'd been cheated out of the hero role. I mentioned what I thought was the real danger with the squib. He told me he'd been worried about exactly the same thing, and had wanted to kick it deep. But Fred Von Appen insisted on the squib, and the rest you know. (Fred von Appen was a great guy, very bright, with a multitude of talents, who could have succeeded at any profession except the one he actually chose, which was football coach.)
For me, 1982 was by far Stanford's most dismal embittering year. With Elway as the front runnerHeisman candidate, which he lost to the Senatorial candidate in Georgia, and the last of the great Walsh/Dowhower recruiting classes as seniors, they should have had a top 20 team, maybe top 10. Instead, they lost four games they should have won, to San Jose State, Arizona State, Arizona, and Cal. The week before, they were up by 14 at home against Arizona (unranked) and gave up 28 unanswered in the fourth quarter to lose. The bowl bid should never have come down to the final game of the season. They were ragged and sloppy, even in games they won. What Tyrone Willingham or Jim Harbaugh could have done with that team, I can only imagine. But Paul Wiggin, a wonderful human being, shared with von Appen the fate of not being good at the thing he loved doing most.
I can't say Wiggin deserved the Play, because no one deserves that. But in a way it was typical. Step by step, from being in the position that a last second drive was necessary to win - Elway had to find Emile Harry with a miracle fourth down play to keep the game going - to the stupid penalty to the absurd squib kick, Wiggin brought Cal back to life, transforming an infinitesimal chance into a longshot. So in that sense, it was fitting.
Very unpleasant memories.
RE: The Play - Austroturf - 11-09-2022
(11-08-2022, 11:27 PM)Genuine Realist Wrote: I was still going to Berkeley for Big Games in those days, and by coincidence had the best seats I ever had for any game. These were about the 40 yard line, on the side on which Stanford kicked off. The Cal player - I forget his name and I'm not going to look it up - apparently was stopped with knees down. The ref came up and CLEARLY - UNAMBIGUOUSLY - waved his arms to signal end of the game. Then he got interested in what was happening on the other side of the field, after the lateral, ran off, and forgot about it. I guess he didn't have the guts to assert his authority after the fantasy that developed.
But the Play is only half the story. I think people forget what a genius Wiggin had for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. After Harmon kicked the apparent winner, the Stanford players ran onto the field and rejoiced, drawing a 15 yard penalty ang giving Cal a ghost of a chance. That would be pretty poor in any circumstance, but they'd done the same damn thing only six weeks earlier, gave Arizona State new life, and were beaten on a last second drive. You'd think a head coach would have the common sense to warn his players not to repeat the offense, have his assistants roam the sideline, but that was not Wiggin. He just stood there and got burned a second time.
As I sat there, my big worry for Stanford was that - if they squibbed it - a Cal player might fall on the ball, call time, and they'd be within distant field goal range. That would have been how the game should have ended, Wiggin would have been fired unceremoniously the next day, and that would be that. A few weeks later, I spotted Mark Harmon at a basketball game, went up to him, introduced myself, congratulated him on a fine season, and commiserated that he'd been cheated out of the hero role. I mentioned what I thought was the real danger with the squib. He told me he'd been worried about exactly the same thing, and had wanted to kick it deep. But Fred Von Appen insisted on the squib, and the rest you know. (Fred von Appen was a great guy, very bright, with a multitude of talents, who could have succeeded at any profession except the one he actually chose, which was football coach.)
For me, 1982 was by far Stanford's most dismal embittering year. With Elway as the front runnerHeisman candidate, which he lost to the Senatorial candidate in Georgia, and the last of the great Walsh/Dowhower recruiting classes as seniors, they should have had a top 20 team, maybe top 10. Instead, they lost four games they should have won, to San Jose State, Arizona State, Arizona, and Cal. The week before, they were up by 14 at home against Arizona (unranked) and gave up 28 unanswered in the fourth quarter to lose. The bowl bid should never have come down to the final game of the season. They were ragged and sloppy, even in games they won. What Tyrone Willingham or Jim Harbaugh could have done with that team, I can only imagine. But Paul Wiggin, a wonderful human being, shared with von Appen the fate of not being good at the thing he loved doing most.
I can't say Wiggin deserved the Play, because no one deserves that. But in a way it was typical. Step by step, from being in the position that a last second drive was necessary to win - Elway had to find Emile Harry with a miracle fourth down play to keep the game going - to the stupid penalty to the absurd squib kick, Wiggin brought Cal back to life, transforming an infinitesimal chance into a longshot. So in that sense, it was fitting.
Very unpleasant memories.
Great post.