MWP cruising - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: MWP cruising (/thread-23481.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: MWP cruising (/thread-23481.html)
RE: MWP cruising - Jamesy - 09-25-2022
(09-25-2022, 06:51 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-25-2022, 05:52 PM)Goose Wrote:(09-25-2022, 03:17 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:True, but they are reliant on PG&E to transport a lot of that power from off-campus sources to campus. When those lines go down, Stanford goes down. This happened in a recent wildfire. I don't know how PG&E reflects Stanford on their outage reports. Is it one customer or many?(09-25-2022, 09:52 AM)M T Wrote:(09-25-2022, 08:47 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: Heard that there was to be more polo on the Farm today, as well as a ton of other happenings. Alas, just got a call telling us not to come, power is out all over campus, kinda like with our football team. . . .
Thanks, that explains why the Live Stream is dark. Water polo doesn't really need power beyond the timer's table, so I guess they could be playing. I could see them turning away fans (no lights in bathrooms, etc.).
PG&E doesn't show a big outage at Stanford. They show an outage for 1 customer on Campus Drive near Junipero Serra, out from 8AM, expected repair is 1:30PM.
Stanford is 100% reliant on it's own power sources. . ..
Got it. Thought Stanford had it's own infrastructure as I thought that was the cause of a multi-day outage over the summer.
Stanford relies on a pg&e transfer station in emerald hills. The fire in the summer affected that area and the outage today was there as well.
RE: MWP cruising - Poly81 - 09-26-2022
Nice to see some interest in MWP! Should be a very entertaining season, and the MPSF teams seem pretty well matched (some have more talent, some have better coaching).
The live stream was pretty bad, which is embarrassing. The sport needs more visibility, and the wide view with no commentary was unprofessional. My understanding is that despite the Pac-12 feed, it wasn't produced by Stanford (there was a third party), but that's not confirmed.
There was a great crowd, and it's nice to have the kids back on campus. Fingers crossed they continue to show up.
The power situation was unfortunate, and it wasn't too long ago that the University was self-sufficient: https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/ It's been 7+ years, and they haven't figured it out yet....
RE: MWP cruising - M T - 09-26-2022
(09-26-2022, 10:55 AM)Poly81 Wrote: The power situation was unfortunate, and it wasn't too long ago that the University was self-sufficient: https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/ It's been 7+ years, and they haven't figured it out yet....My company (also on the peninsula) also has a cogen, but my understanding is we normally don't have it powered up. I believe it is to be dismantled in a couple of years.
At least this water polo feed was free. In the past few years, there have been a set of MPSF water polo game streams that are available for a fee. I usually don't bother with those.
RE: MWP cruising - BobK - 09-26-2022
Welcome Poly please continue to post. Hope you and all are happy with the new coaches, brobdingnagian sucess thus far.
RE: MWP cruising - BostonCard - 09-26-2022
Yes, welcome Poly… another refugee from TOS.
Self-sufficiency is great, until your cogen facility goes down because a rat fried in the transformer.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/PAGE-ONE-Rats-Blamed-For-Blackout-On-Internet-2962896.php
Moreover, the cogen plant ran on natural gas, so if Stanford wanted to be carbon neutral, it needed to get its power from off campus.
BC
RE: MWP cruising - M T - 09-26-2022
(09-26-2022, 02:52 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Self-sufficiency is great, until your cogen facility goes down because a rat fried in the transformer.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/PAGE-ONE-Rats-Blamed-For-Blackout-On-Internet-2962896.php
Moreover, the cogen plant ran on natural gas, so if Stanford wanted to be carbon neutral, it needed to get its power from off campus.
You had me going... That article is from 1996. I thought it was about Sunday's outage (Stanford Daily indicates the outage was from 7:30-10:15AM) and almost forwarded on.
At the Califorrnia ISO site, you can use the drop-down menus on the graphs to see historic usage. When California hit 51.456GW demand on 9/6/22, the state operators supplied from 14.861GW to 26.453GW (min to max on that day) from natural gas, plus 9GW of "Imports" at both those times, which is (on average, not necessarily at peak usage, 20-45% carbon-based), plus about 2.2GW from batteries (charged when supply was about 40% natural gas)). So California was using the equivalent of about 30GW of electricity from carbon-based fuel (local+imported) at that peak, and no less than about 18GW of electricity from carbon-based fuel at any point in that day. I read that the Governor's office was calling around to get companies to turn on such cogen plants to feed back into the grid, or at least to reduce load. It is clearly better to use the state's power when roughly 1/3 of it is renewable, rather than to use 100% natural gas. But when the heat wave hits, having the cogen would help the state cover its demand.
RE: MWP cruising - Poly81 - 09-26-2022
(09-26-2022, 02:52 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Yes, welcome Poly… another refugee from TOS.
Self-sufficiency is great, until your cogen facility goes down because a rat fried in the transformer.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/PAGE-ONE-Rats-Blamed-For-Blackout-On-Internet-2962896.php
Moreover, the cogen plant ran on natural gas, so if Stanford wanted to be carbon neutral, it needed to get its power from off campus.
BC
Yeah, but the negative energy from Shaw should be factored in….
RE: MWP cruising - Phogge - 09-26-2022
I don’t believe that Stanford gets any power from a transfer station.
Doesn’t everyone know that Stanford abhors transfers?
RE: MWP cruising - skip75 - 09-26-2022
(09-26-2022, 09:17 PM)Phogge Wrote: I don’t believe that Stanford gets any power from a transfer station.Gator humor -- gotta love it!!
Doesn’t everyone know that Stanford abhors transfers?
RE: MWP cruising - BostonCard - 09-26-2022
Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that the rats were the cause of this outage. To be clear, Stanford decommissioned the cogen facility in 2015 and replaced it with a facility that produces not just heat but also chilled water (sounds like a heat pump).
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/
Stanford now has two or three off campus solar farms that produce electricity during the day.
BC
RE: MWP cruising - Goose - 09-27-2022
(09-26-2022, 07:40 PM)Poly81 Wrote:Agree, but doesn't the wind energy generated on the Cardboard more than cancel that out?(09-26-2022, 02:52 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Yes, welcome Poly… another refugee from TOS.
Self-sufficiency is great, until your cogen facility goes down because a rat fried in the transformer.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/PAGE-ONE-Rats-Blamed-For-Blackout-On-Internet-2962896.php
Moreover, the cogen plant ran on natural gas, so if Stanford wanted to be carbon neutral, it needed to get its power from off campus.
BC
Yeah, but the negative energy from Shaw should be factored in….
RE: MWP cruising - cardcrimson - 09-27-2022
(09-26-2022, 09:48 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that the rats were the cause of this outage. To be clear, Stanford decommissioned the cogen facility in 2015 and replaced it with a facility that produces not just heat but also chilled water (sounds like a heat pump).
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/
Stanford now has two or three off campus solar farms that produce electricity during the day.
BC
Heat pump, doubtful. Probably a chiller/boiler combination. Pretty sure a friend sold the boilers. . . .
RE: MWP cruising - M T - 09-27-2022
(09-27-2022, 12:28 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-26-2022, 09:48 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that the rats were the cause of this outage. To be clear, Stanford decommissioned the cogen facility in 2015 and replaced it with a facility that produces not just heat but also chilled water (sounds like a heat pump).
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/
Stanford now has two or three off campus solar farms that produce electricity during the day.
Heat pump, doubtful. Probably a chiller/boiler combination. Pretty sure a friend sold the boilers. . . .
[thread drift] If you follow the links in BC's link, you get to a set of documents describing various aspects. The heat produced from the plant that cools the water for chilled water is in turn used to heat the steam used for heating around campus. Also, the return of the chilled water is used as part of the heating system.
"The heat recovery system meets 88% of the heating load on campus with waste heat and reduces total campus potable water consumption by 18%." Also "
- 53% waste heat from cooling is recovered
» Both hot water and cold water thermal energy storage"
The last point means they can build up the reservoirs overnight and deliver it during the day, presumably operating at a more efficient, lower energy pace. Where I work, I heard these described as underground ice fields.
[/thread drift]
RE: MWP cruising - cardcrimson - 09-27-2022
(09-27-2022, 01:00 PM)M T Wrote:(09-27-2022, 12:28 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-26-2022, 09:48 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that the rats were the cause of this outage. To be clear, Stanford decommissioned the cogen facility in 2015 and replaced it with a facility that produces not just heat but also chilled water (sounds like a heat pump).
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/
Stanford now has two or three off campus solar farms that produce electricity during the day.
Heat pump, doubtful. Probably a chiller/boiler combination. Pretty sure a friend sold the boilers. . . .
[thread drift] If you follow the links in BC's link, you get to a set of documents describing various aspects. The heat produced from the plant that cools the water for chilled water is in turn used to heat the steam used for heating around campus. Also, the return of the chilled water is used as part of the heating system.
"The heat recovery system meets 88% of the heating load on campus with waste heat and reduces total campus potable water consumption by 18%." Also "
- 53% waste heat from cooling is recovered
» Both hot water and cold water thermal energy storage"
The last point means they can build up the reservoirs overnight and deliver it during the day, presumably operating at a more efficient, lower energy pace. Where I work, I heard these described as underground ice fields.
[/thread drift]
Yes, I read the article, though some of it doesn't make sense. The heat recovery from the chilled water systems meet 88% of the heating load. Why would they be running chillers in the winter? If they're not running, they're not getting any heat recovery. If there's no heat recovery, the kids will be cold in the winter if they don't have a heat source.
RE: MWP cruising - BostonCard - 09-27-2022
Depends how cold the chilled water has to be, but I imagine it’s less than 10 deg Celsius, which is less than ambient temperature during the day, even in the winter.
I’m out of my depth here, and the technical documents aren’t exactly easy to follow, but using the heat generated by chilling water is, broadly speaking, a heat pump. The key is that instead of generating heat through combustion, energy is used to transfer heat from the water being chilled to the water being heated.
BC
RE: MWP cruising - Maple Leaf - 09-27-2022
(09-27-2022, 01:27 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-27-2022, 01:00 PM)M T Wrote:(09-27-2022, 12:28 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-26-2022, 09:48 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that the rats were the cause of this outage. To be clear, Stanford decommissioned the cogen facility in 2015 and replaced it with a facility that produces not just heat but also chilled water (sounds like a heat pump).
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/
Stanford now has two or three off campus solar farms that produce electricity during the day.
Heat pump, doubtful. Probably a chiller/boiler combination. Pretty sure a friend sold the boilers. . . .
[thread drift] If you follow the links in BC's link, you get to a set of documents describing various aspects. The heat produced from the plant that cools the water for chilled water is in turn used to heat the steam used for heating around campus. Also, the return of the chilled water is used as part of the heating system.
"The heat recovery system meets 88% of the heating load on campus with waste heat and reduces total campus potable water consumption by 18%." Also "
- 53% waste heat from cooling is recovered
» Both hot water and cold water thermal energy storage"
The last point means they can build up the reservoirs overnight and deliver it during the day, presumably operating at a more efficient, lower energy pace. Where I work, I heard these described as underground ice fields.
[/thread drift]
Yes, I read the article, though some of it doesn't make sense. The heat recovery from the chilled water systems meet 88% of the heating load. Why would they be running chillers in the winter? If they're not running, they're not getting any heat recovery. If there's no heat recovery, the kids will be cold in the winter if they don't have a heat source.
In many large institutional facilities there is a need for chilled water and/or cooling even during winter, one example is the surgery units in hospitals along with sterile processing department are just a few. Take a place like a major research university or a big bio tech company there are numerous spaces which need cooling during the winter months.
RE: MWP cruising - cardcrimson - 09-27-2022
(09-27-2022, 08:36 PM)Maple Leaf Wrote:(09-27-2022, 01:27 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-27-2022, 01:00 PM)M T Wrote:(09-27-2022, 12:28 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-26-2022, 09:48 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that the rats were the cause of this outage. To be clear, Stanford decommissioned the cogen facility in 2015 and replaced it with a facility that produces not just heat but also chilled water (sounds like a heat pump).
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/01/cardinal-cogen-sesi-040115/
Stanford now has two or three off campus solar farms that produce electricity during the day.
Heat pump, doubtful. Probably a chiller/boiler combination. Pretty sure a friend sold the boilers. . . .
[thread drift] If you follow the links in BC's link, you get to a set of documents describing various aspects. The heat produced from the plant that cools the water for chilled water is in turn used to heat the steam used for heating around campus. Also, the return of the chilled water is used as part of the heating system.
"The heat recovery system meets 88% of the heating load on campus with waste heat and reduces total campus potable water consumption by 18%." Also "
- 53% waste heat from cooling is recovered
» Both hot water and cold water thermal energy storage"
The last point means they can build up the reservoirs overnight and deliver it during the day, presumably operating at a more efficient, lower energy pace. Where I work, I heard these described as underground ice fields.
[/thread drift]
Yes, I read the article, though some of it doesn't make sense. The heat recovery from the chilled water systems meet 88% of the heating load. Why would they be running chillers in the winter? If they're not running, they're not getting any heat recovery. If there's no heat recovery, the kids will be cold in the winter if they don't have a heat source.
In many large institutional facilities there is a need for chilled water and/or cooling even during winter, one example is the surgery units in hospitals along with sterile processing department are just a few. Take a place like a major research university or a big bio tech company there are numerous spaces which need cooling during the winter months.
Yes, no doubt. You missed the biggest need, data centers. That said, not nearly enough heat recovery to provide heat in the winter. Common sense. But in this day and age, common sense is pretty rare.
RE: MWP cruising - Canalejas - 11-19-2022
https://scores.6-8sports.com/games/b63d3080-ffda-4b27-a3e7-7b4e5dd979ee/box-score
One win against the weenies secured today! I'd be nice to get another.
RE: MWP cruising - M T - 11-19-2022
Oh wow, I’d didn’t expect that win over #1 Cal in the tournament. Fantastic.
RE: MWP cruising - BostonCard - 11-19-2022
Considering that the Bears beat us 18-12 just a week ago, this was a nice turnaround. Barring a late comeback by UCLA, it looks like we will be facing USC in the finals.
Remind me again, will the MpSF get three or four bids? Do we need to win the title to ensure we make the NCAA tournament?
BC