2023 Stanford Football Personnel - Printable Version
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RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - msqueri - 02-24-2023
I think relative to the rest of the roster the tight end room is certainly one of the standouts. Where it stands compared to Stanford historical standards is debatable and where it fits in a Troy Taylor offense remains to be seen. Here's how I view it:
Yurosek - the most proven receiving tight end in the Pac-12 but an incomplete player who has been a somewhat troubled blocker who never seems to transform his body in the off-season....my guess is under Taylor we will just lean into him being a major receiving weapon as Yurosek is the marquee player on the offense
Roush - mixed bag as a freshman insofar as it was eye-opening for a true freshman TE to play right away under Shaw/Turner and to leap frog older guys but the performance was horrendous.....strikes me as a big wild card to see what kind of jump he can make now being much more acclimated to college ball and having new coaches
Hawkins - super intriguing guy with elite size/athleticism combo and high school track record of blocking dominance....I've always viewed him as a poor man's Toilolo and think he could be a big factor after Yurosek is gone and maybe significant this year
Archer - he's put in a lot of time at Stanford and is the veteran in the mix but I view him as over-recruited and not a significant factor
Taylor - the new guy in the room now that we've abolished fullbacks. Between his lack of run so far at Stanford, more proven and exciting guys ahead of him, and the position switch I doubt he's a factor in 2023
Ungar - can't believe he's still on the roster. Have to feel for a guy who keeps at it despite being unable to be a football player essentially ever in his life. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane isn't quite right as the injuries have precluded any real evaluation of his playing ability in both high school and college, but at this point the prudent thing is to write him off. That being said, Ethan Bonner had a constantly-injured track record a year ago too and then went out on the best year of his football life so one can't rule Ungar out entirely. But Ungar will have much, much less opportunity given the room around him and the usage of tight ends in a Taylor offense, so I'm basically writing Ungar off.
Usage of TEs in a Taylor offense is the other key part of this. He has proven that he uses TEs dramatically less than Stanford is used to. Taylor has never given TEs more than 23 percent of skill position snaps, even at Utah where the head coach is more in the pro-TE Shaw camp and subsequently fired Taylor to lean WAY more heavily into TE usage. By way of comparison, Shaw offenses ranged between 21-37 percent of the skill position snaps going to TEs and were at exactly 23 percent this past season. Because all of our TEs are back with a year of extra development, the best guess is that Taylor's TE usage looks a bit higher in terms of playing time to how it's ever looked in a Taylor offense or to how it looked at the tail end of the WR-heavy Shawvita offense. (By the way, "in terms of playing time" is an important caveat because I expect the usage of Stanford WRs and TEs to look much different in general than Shawvita when it comes to spacing, routes, etc.) Maybe ballpark guess that about a quarter of the skill position snaps go to TEs but it would be shocking to be much more than that given Taylor's history.
What does this mean in practice for the TE room? Well we can take to the bank that Yurosek will be on the field the vast majority of the time (he alone took up about 16 percent of skill position snaps last year). My rough calculation would be that would leave approximately nine percent of the skill position snaps to go to the rest of the TE room. Another back of the envelope calculation would suggest perhaps 30 or so snaps a game for non-Yurosek TEs, most of which I would wager would come with somebody in-line while Yurosek does his thing as a big receiver. Ultimately, I view Roush and Hawkins as competing for playing time. Based on past usage Roush certainly the favorite for TE2 but it's a new regime so we'll see how it plays out.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - needle - 02-24-2023
All I know about Taylor and tight ends is that he developed a good one in Marshel Martin at Sac State.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SacHornetsFB/status/1627836029209288707
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - msqueri - 02-24-2023
You may know this already but Marshel Martin is the same size as Mike Wilson. At most that history raises confidence on how big receivers can be integrated into the passing game.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - needle - 02-24-2023
Ok Didn’t know! FWIW, TE coach Nate Byham was a monster TE recruit out of HS and coached offense at UAlbany, whose leading receiver last year was a tight end: https://ualbanysports.com/sports/football/roster/thomas-greaney/8868
https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/ualbany-s-thomas-greaney-prepares-east-west-17746434.php
Getting a bit off topic in one of the best threads on this board, so I’ll end things there.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - BobK - 04-14-2023
Speaking of Byham. TE Archer is in the portal
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - 82lsju - 04-14-2023
(04-14-2023, 11:29 AM)BobK Wrote: Speaking of Byham. TE Archer is in the portal
the transfer portal Spring window opens for 15 days starting on Saturday....
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - SamuelMcF - 04-14-2023
(04-14-2023, 12:51 PM)82lsju Wrote:(04-14-2023, 11:29 AM)BobK Wrote: Speaking of Byham. TE Archer is in the portal
the transfer portal Spring window opens for 15 days starting on Saturday....
Grad transfers can enter whenever they want.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - BobK - 04-25-2023
https://twitter.com/allcardinal/status/1650979390845747200?s=46&t=hbAUGpzNaRK0D-jBbhrpNw
A walk on to scholarship
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - Langdude - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 03:04 PM)BobK Wrote: https://twitter.com/allcardinal/status/1650979390845747200?s=46&t=hbAUGpzNaRK0D-jBbhrpNw
A walk on to scholarship
I must be missing something. I thought he was put on scholarship years ago. He played a ton as a walk-on freshman, and I thought he got a scholie the following year. Sam?
-m.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - BobK - 04-25-2023
Could be I thought the same then watched the video from today
https://fb.watch/k870avBwT0/?mibextid=jf9HGS
The video
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - SamuelMcF - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 04:14 PM)Langdude Wrote:(04-25-2023, 03:04 PM)BobK Wrote: https://twitter.com/allcardinal/status/1650979390845747200?s=46&t=hbAUGpzNaRK0D-jBbhrpNw
A walk on to scholarship
I must be missing something. I thought he was put on scholarship years ago. He played a ton as a walk-on freshman, and I thought he got a scholie the following year. Sam?
-m.
He did. I thought the exact same thing. Technically walk-ons only need to receive scholarships for one year (see MBB walk-ons under Haase), but under Shaw it was a 4-year deal and I assumed that was still the case here.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - Langdude - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 04:42 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(04-25-2023, 04:14 PM)Langdude Wrote:(04-25-2023, 03:04 PM)BobK Wrote: https://twitter.com/allcardinal/status/1650979390845747200?s=46&t=hbAUGpzNaRK0D-jBbhrpNw
A walk on to scholarship
I must be missing something. I thought he was put on scholarship years ago. He played a ton as a walk-on freshman, and I thought he got a scholie the following year. Sam?
-m.
He did. I thought the exact same thing. Technically walk-ons only need to receive scholarships for one year (see MBB walk-ons under Haase), but under Shaw it was a 4-year deal and I assumed that was still the case here.
Interesting. I'm guessing that Taylor told Jorgensen that he could return for a fifth year if he wanted, but he would have to earn his scholarship again. Looks like he did - and we definitely have a lot of scholarships to use at this point. We need all the bodies we can get.
-m.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - Langdude - 05-05-2023
I've updated the notes to reflect NFL signees, drafted and undrafted.
I've also updated the grid by subtracting Bradley Archer, who announced he's transferring to Indiana (joining JMF and Nicolas Toomer). That makes it an impressive 12 seniors transferring, and 19 overall...
-m.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - MVDan - 05-13-2023
Transfer portal QB Justin Lamson commits to Stanford.
[Tweet]https://twitter.com/justin_lamson10/status/1657456309695029248/photo/2[/tweet]
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - PVTree - 05-13-2023
A bit of good news. Was hoping for Arch Manning (wishing has no limits), but at least it's a Div. 1 QB, and perhaps he can compete for the starting position.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - Spiny_Norman - 05-13-2023
A Nor Cal local from El Dorado Hills. Did not take a snap at Syracuse. "Emerged as Syracuse's backup quarterback in the spring of 2022 before suffering a season ending injury in the spring that sidelined him for the duration of the year."
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - jfredmuggs - 05-13-2023
Okay, somebody explain to me how this guy can transfer to Stanford as an academic junior or senior. I was under the impression that Stanford only accepted transfers who had completed just the first year of college. Graduate transfers, too, if they can get into a Stanford graduate program, but that’s not the case here. If I understood correctly, this was what Tara said about the limits of the transfer portal for the women’s program. Are we now making exceptions for football? Fine with me if we are. The transfer portal is hard enough to deal with as it is.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - msqueri - 05-13-2023
(05-13-2023, 05:40 PM)jfredmuggs Wrote: Okay, somebody explain to me how this guy can transfer to Stanford as an academic junior or senior. I was under the impression that Stanford only accepted transfers who had completed just the first year of college. Graduate transfers, too, if they can get into a Stanford graduate program, but that’s not the case here. If I understood correctly, this was what Tara said about the limits of the transfer portal for the women’s program. Are we now making exceptions for football? Fine with me if we are. The transfer portal is hard enough to deal with as it is.
Our incoming transfers for football include Gaethan Bernadel (entering his third year of college like Lamson) and Trevor Mayberry (entering his fourth). I don't think academic year has anything to do with it. In fact, I suspect undergrad transfers of any year are easier for us to get via transfer than graduate transfers because they're non-rivalrous with regular students. Lamson, Bernadel, and Mayberry just take a spot from a high school senior football player. Grad transfers take spots from non-athletes and thus have to get in more on their own merits than the football team's request/capital. Anyway, no, I don't think year has anything to do with it and we should expect to continue to see mid-college transfers.
Reactions:
* On paper this looks like another 3-star QB coming in to compete on a level playing field with Ari Patu, Ashton Daniels, and Myles Jackson. There's nothing in Lamson's profile that separates him from the pack. We are still in the same boat of multiple plausible options but no standout options, high likelihood of competition continuing throughout the summer if not into the fall, and a possibility of a two QB system like Taylor ran at Sacramento State. That being said, Lamson feels like the new favorite to be QB1, with the strongest signal of all being the act of transferring in, which says something about his perception of the competition and Taylor's perception of him.
* In terms of what Lamson has proven.....absolutely nothing. In two years in Power Five football he's played zero snaps, compared to Patu playing 56 snaps in two years and Daniels playing 38 snaps in one year. All of those are low enough that I imagine Taylor will view all three as fundamentally inexperienced and unproven and this won't be a differentiator. I just mention it because with transfers college production is a much more interesting data point than anything about the high school profile and in this case we don't have anything to judge. Except....
* Syracuse fans seem to think he has real potential. Notably (though IMHO not significantly as I think spring games are wildly overrated), Lamson has been a darling of the Syracuse spring game both of his years in college. His first year his spring performance was viewed as winning him QB2 until he suffered an injury that wiped out his redshirt freshman season. This year he got the lion's share of spring game reps and out-performed his competitor, Carlos Del Rio-Wilson, producing a sense he could again be in line for QB2. For those looking to get a sense of what QB2 at Syracuse translates to, QB1 is Garrett Shrader, who was #39 in the nation in Total QBR last year (Tanner McKee was #79), making him most comparable to Michigan State's (now Auburn), Arizona State's Trenton Bourget, West Virginia's Tommy DeVito (now New York Giants free agent), Notre Dame's Drew Pyne (transferring to ASU to compete with Bourget), and Florida's Anthony Richardson (now the fourth overall NFL pick for the Indianapolis Colts). That's a very nice bird in the hand to have as QB1, so QB2 for Syracuse could very easily be QB1 for Stanford.
* That's not to say Lamson is buzzy in the grand scheme of things though. 247 has him as approximately the 85th ranked QB in the transfer portal this off-season and On3 has him #120 (!!!!!!!). I think we can reasonably hope he's a lot better than that but....yeah, not buzzy. Those aren't typos. 119 QBs transferring this off-season On3, which is pretty credible, has ahead of Lamson. Our hope is that his inactivity and unavailability makes him out of sight and out of mind and there's a lot more talent than most people realize.
* Inactivity and unavailability are the words I'd use. I've been scathing toward Patu in these regards so it's only fair I be objective here. I mentioned how Lamson missed his redshirt freshman season with a non-contact knee injury. Like Patu, Lamson skipped his COVID-delayed senior year of high school to enroll early in college.
* But the comparison stops there, as while Patu was a backup QB his junior year of high school a ten minute drive away Lamson was winning Sacramento Bee Player of the Year honors. It's fair to say Lamson slung it much more prodigiously in high school than either Patu or Daniels did. As a junior against very good competition (top 24 percent of Stanford recruits), Lamson completed 66.3 percent of his passes for 3,114 yards (9.98 yards per attempt....pretty good, Davis Mills and Josh Nunes the most comparable in our recent experience), 24 touchdowns, and 8 interceptions. That's a nice year, though the TD-INT ratio is not as dominant as we've sometimes seen and raises some question about ball security (though the same thing could have been said about Andrew Luck....ha!). But it's certainly way better than what Patu or Daniels demonstrated in high school. It's not as good as Myles Jackson, though Jackson played horrible competition while Lamson played very good competition. (I continue to think Jackson matriculating next month is the big story in the Stanford QB room people aren't talking about enough. I understand Jackson is skipping his senior year of high school and behind the curve compared to his competitors, but I wouldn't rule him out. I would bet on Lamson to be QB1 first but don't forget about Jackson.)
* Lamson's rushing stats in high school were not special - 462 yards and 5 touchdowns on 3.4 yards per carry as a junior - but what's interesting in corroborating some athleticism is that while Lamson was riding pine on offense as QB2 as a high school sophomore he was starring as a safety. As a sophomore against good competition (not quite as good as what he threw against as a junior but still pretty good), he had 6.3 tackles per game (second on the team), two interceptions (team lead), 2 passes defended (tied for fourth), 5 tackles for loss (fifth), and 0.5 sacks (tied for tenth). The other data point we have to support athleticism is supposedly playing varsity basketball, though his team reported pretty complete stats his junior year and he doesn't show up at all so I'm not really viewing this as significant at all.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - msqueri - 05-13-2023
* In my view Lamson, Patu, Daniels, and Jackson are all on somewhat even footing in a QB competition so high school recruiting rankings are totally irrelevant, but I know some will wonder about high school profile so I'll say a few words. In the 247 composite, Patu was #405, Jackson was #424 before reclassifying and #460 after reclassifiying, Lamson was #936, and Daniels was #995. Lamson was not generally regarded as much of a Power Five prospect in high school with his top offers being Syracuse, Louisville, and Boise State. Compare that, for instance, to Jackson having 15+ offers that significant including a handful much more significant (e.g., Ole Miss, Oregon, Washington).
* I may watch Lamson's spring games at Syracuse at some point just out of curiosity, but I cannot bring myself to thinking spring games matter. It's not real football. Of more interest is watching the one season of football at either the high school or college level in which Lamson has been the QB. The season highlights aren't very long or mindblowing. Seems to throw a nice ball and have decent escapability and improvisation. Not much to show big arm strength. The first game tape to watch is of of course against Troy Taylor's old stomping grounds of Folsom, which of course was also Patu's team though Patu rode pine. Against a talented defense (Cal DB Kaleb Higgins, Arizona State WR Elijhah Badger, Sacramento State DL DeShawn Lynch), Lamson had a nice game in a losing effort, passing for 296 yards and 2 touchdowns with no interceptions. Lamson got sacked six times in that game, which typically doesn't speak well to pocket presence but in this game probably had something to do with Folsom being so good. Lynch was especially disruptive, though one of his two sacks came on a low shotgun snap Lamson couldn't cleanly handle. Higgins (yes, Elijah's brother) had a pass defended at the goal line on a pass from Lamson that seemed to have been under thrown and/or ill-advised under pressure from Lynch. There was a big yard after catch play where a relatively quick release by Lamson allowed the receiver to race past Higgins and the other defenders as well as a nicely thrown slant on Higgins that went for about a 15 yard gain. The most interesting mano-a-mano game of Lamson's life came against Monterey Trail, as they featured USC borderline whale DB Prophet Brown, although there aren't many clips to judge as Lamson and Oak Ridge elected to do work on the ground rather than pass much. Lamson only attempted nine passes in that game, well below his norm (he had one game with 13, although it was a blowout, and averaged 24 pass attempts per game). That may have been influenced by Brown being on the other side but also a function of what was working - Lamson rushed for 129 yards and three touchdowns, his all time best rushing game by a lot and deep in the playoffs at that. Lamson's highlights include a play where he did a nifty spin move to avoid a sack and out of the spin threw a dart across the middle while getting hit by two other rushers, completing a 9 yard pass to a receiver matched up against Brown. Otherwise it's mostly runs and throwing where Brown isn't, though there is a nine yard completion where the receiver Brown was covering ran a comeback route. For his part, Brown put on tape a pass breakup where he locked up a receiver in press coverage and had the athleticism to dive and break up a short route to a totally different receiver at the next level of depth (both routes within seven yards of the line of scrimmage)....Brown liked that play so much he put it on the highlight twice in different parts of the reel (come on, man!). In the Lincoln game, San Jose State DL Grady Manley didn't put anything on tape against Lamson (though Lincoln as a team had four sacks) whereas Lamson evaded a pass rush with his athleticism to scramble for some yards and also connected on a pass in the face of a pass rush by Manley. Against Rocklin, Air Force DL Bobby Piland was only a sophomore at the time and wasn't a notable nuisance for Lamson (though it wasg another game with four total team sacks). Against Grant, OL/DL Isaiah Tupou, who signed with BYU but then matriculated to junior college after his LDS mission, didn't seem to bother Lamson much in the highlights, but it was a three interception game for Lamson so clearly not that clean of a performance. Elk Grove's prominent linemen, including Stanford's Simione Pale, were younger than Lamson (two years behind in Pale's case), so they didn't get a chance to square off. Similarly, Eastern Washington DB Amani Pressley was still another year away from being a factor for Inderkum. Last but not least, the last game Lamson played at any level was the Northern California I-AA championship against Fresno Central. Lamson had a solid game against the eventual state champion at that level (and top 25 team nationally according to Maxpreps), passing for 210 yards on 7.78 yards per attempt, two touchdowns, and one interception while getting sacked five times. Lamson's highlights include a skinny post where he threaded an opening past some defenders, including Cal Poly LB Jekob Jones, and a long run up the middle, which in that game was intimidatingly manned by big Cal DT Ricky Correia. Jones' highlights showed a big game spying on Lamson to limit the damage Lamson can do on the ground, sacking Lamson (albeit with a big assist from Lamson fumbling the snap), and defending a pass over the middle where Lamson must not have seen Jones in front of the route (or didn't have enough air on the ball.
RE: 2023 Stanford Football Personnel - msqueri - 05-13-2023
* As I look at all of this I don't see Lamson being a guy whose very presence ends the competition. Still a competition. But as I said at the outset I do think transferring in suggests something about how he thinks this will go, how Taylor views him, etc. One thing I've noticed is that as a college head coach Taylor has never had a QB1 who wasn't a transfer. Kevin Thomson came from UNLV, Jake Dunniway came from San Diego Mesa JC, and Asher O'Hara came from Middle Tennessee. One could surmise Taylor is more comfortable bringing in his own guy than inheriting somebody else's evaluation. Lamson is particularly interesting in this regard because he comes from Taylor's Sacramento neck of the woods, received his first college offer from Sacramento State (at least according to 247 timeline), and played numerous games his junior year against high schools Taylor heavily recruited (Folsom, Elk Grove, Rocklin, Inderkum, Granite Bay). Obviously Taylor goes back in his evaluation of Lamson and there's a mutual comfort here. All that being said, it's not like Taylor always needs his own guy. As coordinator at Eastern Washington he started Gage Gubrud, who he inherited as a former walk-on and once Taylor came on board he benched the returning starter in favor of Gubrud. As coordinator at Utah, it was all about Tyler Huntley, who Taylor also inherited and also elevated over a returning starter. What this history suggests to me is that being a Taylor guy is an advantage and seniority/past experience really means nothing.
* All of this may be sobering for Patu. In addition to what I've observed in this post, it's been interesting to hear comments from both Taylor and Patu that make clear that their mutual Folsom ties mean nothing. On the other hand, I don't think it's out of the question Patu wins a competition (or is one of the top two in a two QB system). It's easy to forget that he actually had the highest composite recruiting ranking of any QB in our pipeline, even including Jackson. If Patu does stay, I question his commitment to football. To not be a QB1 for five years in today's day and age of QB freedom at the high school and college level would seem to indicate that finding a place where he can be the guy just isn't important to him.
* To that point, it will be interesting to see if Stanford's depth chart remains intact. We would seem to have one of the least settled or exciting QB1 situations in Power Five but arguably one of the deepest, but that could change with one or more outbound transfers. However, if I understand the transfer portal correctly, since none of our QBs are graduates they now have to wait until December to transfer. Consequently, it seems like 2023 will be an open tryout for the Stanford QB of the future and then after the season is when we could see movement. (Of course, we're one of the favorites for whale QB Elijah Brown, so that could dramatically change our sense of QB of the future, especially if nobody plays great this fall)
* The bigger short-term question than transfers seems to be chemistry and morale. Patu and Daniels seemed to be operating from an equal starting point and with obvious mutual expectations of what the new coaching staff meant. A new QB transferring in is a big change to that dynamic. How will Patu and Daniels react? How will teammates partial to one or both of them react? Hard to say. It can't be likely to be any more disruptive than it is at the average school considering virtually all programs have this dynamic, but it's still a variable entering the equation. The way Taylor talked about it a few weeks ago seems like the right move - we're trying to make the team everywhere. Make this about competition and don't apologize for making guys fight for the right to represent Stanford on the field on Saturdays.
* It is probably premature to situate Lamson in historical perspective among Stanford transfers as we don't yet know if he'll start. But if he's QB1 this is one of the biggest transfers in Stanford history. Regardless, this has obviously been a sea change off-season in the number of transfers we've brought in considering we're at five and counting and historically would occasionally have one (though further back in time they were more common, especially considering junior college). There are actually numerous Power Five programs who have brought in fewer or equal number of transfers. If we can make this kind of volume of transfers an annual occurrence and reverse the trend of outward attrition that took hold at the end under Shaw, the transfer portal may not end up being much of a negative for Stanford. We'll see. Early days and I feel like it will adjust/be a bit different every year.
* I will not judge anybody for the sins of the father but if Lamson's dad is who I think he is....yikes. I hope it doesn't lead to bad juju, awkwardness around the football team parents, or anything like that.