Never thought it would become this ugly - Printable Version
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RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - SamuelMcF - 10-06-2024
(10-06-2024, 05:04 PM)VB Card Wrote:(10-05-2024, 06:59 PM)d4cohn Wrote:(10-05-2024, 06:41 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(10-05-2024, 06:37 PM)d4cohn Wrote: All we need is someone to argue that this is somehow David Shaw's fault.
Glad to oblige. Miller Moss is having a really nice year at $C. That's just for starters.
Troy Taylor brought Lamson in as a transfer QB (not Shaw). So TT had the ability to, and did, upgrade the QB position through the portal to make up for any "empty cupboard" Shaw left.
If TT utilized his QB transfer on a quarterback who threw for barely 100 yards, averaged 4.3 yards per completion, and had 1 fewer TD pass than his RB, perhaps TT didn't do a good job evaluating the QB's in the transfer portal. A QB from New Mexico State who transferred to Vandy this year (so he had a strong enough academic profile to grad transfer to Vandy) just led his team to an upset of #1 ranked Alabama.
I have never heard Miller even considered Stanford, particularly in this NIL era when players like Austin Jones and Kiki Irafen went from Stanford to SC (not the other way around).
Miller Moss's mother went to Stanford and he wanted an offer. Shaw wouldn't offer him. Miller's younger sister is now a freshman at Stanford...
Very true, a total embarrassment and catastrophe of high school recruiting, but he was never going to transfer here.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - Spiny_Norman - 10-06-2024
(10-06-2024, 04:22 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: And by the way, it was "this ugly" for half of the games last season.
And it was pretty bad in 2021 and 2022. Stanford finished 2021 0-7 with some real stinkers. Stanford went 0-5 at the end of 2022 with most losses uncompetitive blowouts.
Looking back at 2019, Stanford finished the season 0-4 as well. We've seen ugly football at Stanford for quite a few years now.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - Mick - 10-06-2024
(10-06-2024, 02:02 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-06-2024, 01:42 PM)gailtate Wrote: There was talent on Wlat's '06 team. Harbaugh used it in '07 as the foundational element of his Stanford career. Look where he had the program by '09. TT won't come close that by his third season.True. To make sure I understand your point, you are saying the '06 team had talent that Harbaugh et al used to be a better team in '07 and beyond. The '22 team had little if any talent and therefore TT is going to have a much tougher time. I would support that assertion. There was no Toby Gerhart on the '22 team, for example. TT may never 'get there', but he clearly started with further to go.
Still seems odd to me that Harris couldn't do anything with Stanford's teams. He'd gone to six bowls in eight years at Pitt, including the last five in a row, was ranked in the AP Top 10 at the start of 2003. He won between 7 and 9 games five years in a row, after recovering from 6, 2, and 5 win seasons at Pitt...and Pitt floundered after Harris left. If he actually recruited talent to Stanford, how did he stink so badly as a head coach?
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - BostonCard - 10-06-2024
(10-06-2024, 05:32 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Very true, a total embarrassment and catastrophe of high school recruiting, but he was never going to transfer here.
Based on the TMZ article (which, I realize the source, but it includes video), it sounds like the embarrassment would have been ours had he been offered and come.
BC
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - 82lsju - 10-06-2024
(10-06-2024, 06:41 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 02:02 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-06-2024, 01:42 PM)gailtate Wrote: There was talent on Wlat's '06 team. Harbaugh used it in '07 as the foundational element of his Stanford career. Look where he had the program by '09. TT won't come close that by his third season.True. To make sure I understand your point, you are saying the '06 team had talent that Harbaugh et al used to be a better team in '07 and beyond. The '22 team had little if any talent and therefore TT is going to have a much tougher time. I would support that assertion. There was no Toby Gerhart on the '22 team, for example. TT may never 'get there', but he clearly started with further to go.
Still seems odd to me that Harris couldn't do anything with Stanford's teams. He'd gone to six bowls in eight years at Pitt, including the last five in a row, was ranked in the AP Top 10 at the start of 2003. He won between 7 and 9 games five years in a row, after recovering from 6, 2, and 5 win seasons at Pitt...and Pitt floundered after Harris left. If he actually recruited talent to Stanford, how did he stink so badly as a head coach?
my recollection from when we hired Harris was Pitt people writing on The Bootleg about "glad he's gone"....
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - Mick - 10-06-2024
(10-06-2024, 06:55 PM)82lsju Wrote:(10-06-2024, 06:41 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 02:02 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-06-2024, 01:42 PM)gailtate Wrote: There was talent on Wlat's '06 team. Harbaugh used it in '07 as the foundational element of his Stanford career. Look where he had the program by '09. TT won't come close that by his third season.True. To make sure I understand your point, you are saying the '06 team had talent that Harbaugh et al used to be a better team in '07 and beyond. The '22 team had little if any talent and therefore TT is going to have a much tougher time. I would support that assertion. There was no Toby Gerhart on the '22 team, for example. TT may never 'get there', but he clearly started with further to go.
Still seems odd to me that Harris couldn't do anything with Stanford's teams. He'd gone to six bowls in eight years at Pitt, including the last five in a row, was ranked in the AP Top 10 at the start of 2003. He won between 7 and 9 games five years in a row, after recovering from 6, 2, and 5 win seasons at Pitt...and Pitt floundered after Harris left. If he actually recruited talent to Stanford, how did he stink so badly as a head coach?
my recollection from when we hired Harris was Pitt people writing on The Bootleg about "glad he's gone"....
I remember the same thing...still, prior to Harris' arrival at Pitt, they hadn't been to a bowl game in eight seasons, and had only been to two bowl games in the 13 seasons prior to Harris' arrival...after having gone to 11 straight bowl games dating back to the Dorsett era. Harris took them to six bowls in eight years and national rankings in his final three seasons. Wonder what he did to anger the locals?
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - PalmTree - 10-07-2024
(10-06-2024, 07:03 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 06:55 PM)82lsju Wrote:(10-06-2024, 06:41 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 02:02 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-06-2024, 01:42 PM)gailtate Wrote: There was talent on Wlat's '06 team. Harbaugh used it in '07 as the foundational element of his Stanford career. Look where he had the program by '09. TT won't come close that by his third season.True. To make sure I understand your point, you are saying the '06 team had talent that Harbaugh et al used to be a better team in '07 and beyond. The '22 team had little if any talent and therefore TT is going to have a much tougher time. I would support that assertion. There was no Toby Gerhart on the '22 team, for example. TT may never 'get there', but he clearly started with further to go.
Still seems odd to me that Harris couldn't do anything with Stanford's teams. He'd gone to six bowls in eight years at Pitt, including the last five in a row, was ranked in the AP Top 10 at the start of 2003. He won between 7 and 9 games five years in a row, after recovering from 6, 2, and 5 win seasons at Pitt...and Pitt floundered after Harris left. If he actually recruited talent to Stanford, how did he stink so badly as a head coach?
my recollection from when we hired Harris was Pitt people writing on The Bootleg about "glad he's gone"....
I remember the same thing...still, prior to Harris' arrival at Pitt, they hadn't been to a bowl game in eight seasons, and had only been to two bowl games in the 13 seasons prior to Harris' arrival...after having gone to 11 straight bowl games dating back to the Dorsett era. Harris took them to six bowls in eight years and national rankings in his final three seasons. Wonder what he did to anger the locals?
Prohibit firearms in the locker room???.....
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - gailtate - 10-07-2024
(10-06-2024, 02:02 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-06-2024, 01:42 PM)gailtate Wrote: There was talent on Wlat's '06 team. Harbaugh used it in '07 as the foundational element of his Stanford career. Look where he had the program by '09. TT won't come close that by his third season.True. To make sure I understand your point, you are saying the '06 team had talent that Harbaugh et al used to be a better team in '07 and beyond. The '22 team had little if any talent and therefore TT is going to have a much tougher time. I would support that assertion. There was no Toby Gerhart on the '22 team, for example. TT may never 'get there', but he clearly started with further to go.
You got it.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - JohnR34231 - 10-07-2024
(10-06-2024, 07:03 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 06:55 PM)82lsju Wrote:(10-06-2024, 06:41 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 02:02 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-06-2024, 01:42 PM)gailtate Wrote: There was talent on Wlat's '06 team. Harbaugh used it in '07 as the foundational element of his Stanford career. Look where he had the program by '09. TT won't come close that by his third season.True. To make sure I understand your point, you are saying the '06 team had talent that Harbaugh et al used to be a better team in '07 and beyond. The '22 team had little if any talent and therefore TT is going to have a much tougher time. I would support that assertion. There was no Toby Gerhart on the '22 team, for example. TT may never 'get there', but he clearly started with further to go.
Still seems odd to me that Harris couldn't do anything with Stanford's teams. He'd gone to six bowls in eight years at Pitt, including the last five in a row, was ranked in the AP Top 10 at the start of 2003. He won between 7 and 9 games five years in a row, after recovering from 6, 2, and 5 win seasons at Pitt...and Pitt floundered after Harris left. If he actually recruited talent to Stanford, how did he stink so badly as a head coach?
my recollection from when we hired Harris was Pitt people writing on The Bootleg about "glad he's gone"....
I remember the same thing...still, prior to Harris' arrival at Pitt, they hadn't been to a bowl game in eight seasons, and had only been to two bowl games in the 13 seasons prior to Harris' arrival...after having gone to 11 straight bowl games dating back to the Dorsett era. Harris took them to six bowls in eight years and national rankings in his final three seasons. Wonder what he did to anger the locals?
From what I understood, Harris just generally acted like a jerk. (I believe one Cardboarder confirmed that when he met him). Harris was tolerated because he won.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - msqueri - 10-07-2024
I don’t think we’ll ever know but I remember at the time there were Pitt rumors related to personal/marital life and relationship with Pitt leadership (the AD?). During Harris’ time at Stanford he just struck me as showing the signs of somebody in the throes of depression. And if we are being specific about it, it might be worth noting that he only coached 23 games at Stanford (Troy Taylor has coached 17) and what we are really talking about is the imploded 2006 season. Harris’ first team, like Teevens’ last, is what we would now call a pretty solid team. About the quality Cal is today, for instance.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - murky - 10-07-2024
(10-07-2024, 10:32 AM)msqueri Wrote: I don’t think we’ll ever know but I remember at the time there were Pitt rumors related to personal/marital life and relationship with Pitt leadership (the AD?). During Harris’ time at Stanford he just struck me as showing the signs of somebody in the throes of depression. And if we are being specific about it, it might be worth noting that he only coached 23 games at Stanford (Troy Taylor has coached 17) and what we are really talking about is the imploded 2006 season. Harris’ first team, like Teevens’ last, is what we would now call a pretty solid team. About the quality Cal is today, for instance.
You've touched on this before, but its still difficult to wrap my mind around. Maybe its because I'd still rather be going for it on 4th and long than punting on 3rd down.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - needle - 10-07-2024
Quote: It wasn’t just the bear crawls. That punishment may have been the physical manifestation of the tension between the players and their head coach, but Harris’ verbal clashes were sometimes even more demoralizing.
“He always mentioned Stanford guys,” Fletcher says. “He was always mad. ‘Stanford football players always ask why,’ [Harris would complain]. ‘Do it. If I tell you to run through a wall, you do it.’ And he didn’t know how to talk to us, he didn’t know how to motivate us, he didn’t know how to do anything. He thought just by belittling us, Stanford guys would respond to that, and we didn’t respond to that very well at all.”
https://stanforddaily.com/2013/06/06/rags-to-roses-excerpt-on-quick-kicks-and-bear-crawls/
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - Jamesy - 10-07-2024
(10-07-2024, 10:32 AM)msqueri Wrote: I don’t think we’ll ever know but I remember at the time there were Pitt rumors related to personal/marital life and relationship with Pitt leadership (the AD?). During Harris’ time at Stanford he just struck me as showing the signs of somebody in the throes of depression. And if we are being specific about it, it might be worth noting that he only coached 23 games at Stanford (Troy Taylor has coached 17) and what we are really talking about is the imploded 2006 season. Harris’ first team, like Teevens’ last, is what we would now call a pretty solid team. About the quality Cal is today, for instance.
We were a missed interception call vs UC Davis away from making a bowl in 2005. Really dodged a bullet there I'd say.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - Mick - 10-07-2024
(10-07-2024, 10:17 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(10-06-2024, 07:03 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 06:55 PM)82lsju Wrote:(10-06-2024, 06:41 PM)Mick Wrote:(10-06-2024, 02:02 PM)Goose Wrote: True. To make sure I understand your point, you are saying the '06 team had talent that Harbaugh et al used to be a better team in '07 and beyond. The '22 team had little if any talent and therefore TT is going to have a much tougher time. I would support that assertion. There was no Toby Gerhart on the '22 team, for example. TT may never 'get there', but he clearly started with further to go.
Still seems odd to me that Harris couldn't do anything with Stanford's teams. He'd gone to six bowls in eight years at Pitt, including the last five in a row, was ranked in the AP Top 10 at the start of 2003. He won between 7 and 9 games five years in a row, after recovering from 6, 2, and 5 win seasons at Pitt...and Pitt floundered after Harris left. If he actually recruited talent to Stanford, how did he stink so badly as a head coach?
my recollection from when we hired Harris was Pitt people writing on The Bootleg about "glad he's gone"....
I remember the same thing...still, prior to Harris' arrival at Pitt, they hadn't been to a bowl game in eight seasons, and had only been to two bowl games in the 13 seasons prior to Harris' arrival...after having gone to 11 straight bowl games dating back to the Dorsett era. Harris took them to six bowls in eight years and national rankings in his final three seasons. Wonder what he did to anger the locals?
From what I understood, Harris just generally acted like a jerk. (I believe one Cardboarder confirmed that when he met him). Harris was tolerated because he won.
That was me. I've had a number of reprehensible coaches, football and otherwise over the course of my lifetime, but Harris was il capo di tutti capi so to speak.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - jacket3ree - 10-07-2024
I thought it might become this ugly watching the exodus of talent over the past few years. How do you recruit to what Msqueri correctly identifies as the 'least fun place for football in America?' He said to watch football, but how fun can it be to play where no one cares as evidenced by a few thousand fans watching most games? These kids have plenty of options to combine top-flight athletics and academics. Be honest. If you are a HS or portal player interested in playing in California and OK being in the ACC while playing in California, are you going to Cal or Stanford if you paid any attention to either game on Saturday? Cal has thousands of fans willing to spend the night or get on BART early (I talked to several as I was on BART late after Hardly Strictly Bluegrass) to put up with McAfee live while creating (I have to say it) the best signs I've ever seen on College Game Day. You've got a CE student in Vans helping Hurricane relief with Herbstreet pumped about it going against Herbstreet saying (about the VPI-Stanford game): 'yeah over in sleepy Palo Alto it won't be anything like this. Virginia Tech will have to fight the empty atmosphere.' And a packed stadium. I felt bad for the fans that they couldn't hold a freaking 25 point lead for 22 minutes of game time with Cam Ward spraying balls all over the place until he wasn't. I feared for our TV, but thankfully it survived both the Bears' meltdown and the Niners'. Always fun to have the wife invent new swear words.
The best hope is the apparently unshakable decadal mediocrity cycle (DMC) that has dogged Stanford since the Second World War. With some exceptions of course, the '50s were good, the '60s bad; '70s good; '80s bad; '90s good; '00s bad; '10s good.....'20s bad. It might not be Taylor who ultimately digs us out, but if history is a guide, we only have six more years of this. If the program can survive six more years of this.
I thought about going on Saturday. It wasn't the heat. I ended up cutting weeds out back in the same heat. I wanted to watch Navy sing second against Air Force and was glad I could watch Vandy, which was a nice surprise. I spent most of the second half in a mall to get an anniversary gift. A mall. I hate malls. I'd rather roast in 100 degree heat. But not watching Stanford stall ball knowing a loss was incoming. Kudos to anyone still going to Stanford Stadium waiting for something to happen. That's not me anymore. All I can muster is flipping to 1050 to hear Platz slowly boil over how crappy Stanford has become while Troy tries to hold on to the six remaining listeners. 28-7? Gotcha. Let me find some tunes for the brief trip back down El Camino to get ready for Tech in primetime and catch some more games. I never thought it would become ugly enough that I would stop going to games, but it has.
There is a dead program walking vibe to all this. Hope Taylor is up to the challenge. Does anyone know if Levine cares?
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - fullmetal - 10-07-2024
Well, it wasn't ugly enough for TT to put Myles Jackson in. Guess he's just not ready for prime time? (Why is he not ready to take some live snaps? Who has failed to make this recruit ready?)
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - JohnR34231 - 10-08-2024
(10-07-2024, 10:43 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Well, it wasn't ugly enough for TT to put Myles Jackson in. Guess he's just not ready for prime time? (Why is he not ready to take some live snaps? Who has failed to make this recruit ready?)
Apparently, TT thinks he is not ready for prime time, but also not ready for garbage time.
Perhaps a combination of TT not being particularly impressed with what he sees in practice and the feeling Lamson needs all the work he can get.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - Goose - 10-08-2024
(10-08-2024, 03:56 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote: Perhaps a combination of TT not being particularly impressed with what he sees in practice and the feeling Lamson needs all the work he can get.Undoubtedly both are true, but IMO the second is the overriding factor. It appears probable we will have to rely on Lamson for at least one more game (perhaps more). He needs the work and given his previous lack of playing time it is probable he will benefit from it.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - CowboyIndian - 10-08-2024
(10-07-2024, 07:11 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: There is a dead program walking vibe to all this. Hope Taylor is up to the challenge. Does anyone know if Levine cares?
It's "Levin" and rumor has it that he does.
RE: Never thought it would become this ugly - d4cohn - 10-08-2024
(10-07-2024, 07:11 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: There is a dead program walking vibe to all this. Hope Taylor is up to the challenge. Does anyone know if Levine cares?
I think this is a bit "hot-takey" given how things seemed after the Syracuse game (also I think if we had anything resembling average, C level QB play, we would be quite good, or at least solid). I think the attendance numbers declining year over year is concerning, but I could point to plenty of Cal games and probably many other college football teams with poor attendance.