WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State, Sunday 12pm; preview and game thread - BillBradley - 01-12-2025

Wes Moore is a really good coach. Nailed the game plan IMO. Make Demetre put it on the floor. Put a big body on Nunu all game long with tons of help and never help off her. Let the guards shoot threes. Take your chances with Bosgana. Make the others beat you. And that's how the game went until they were up by 25+. We will beat no one with Demetre scoring 3 points on 4 shots while our guards shoot it 29 times. I actually think our guards played decently offensively, but I can't believe KP is giving them so much freedom. Agara and Demetre have to be the lead dogs IMO.

I'm really impressed with the NC State team. They play a disciplined style of basketball. They have decent athleticism and could play an all-up-in-your-face style of defense, but they don't. They just do what they are supposed to. We had 43 points in the first 3 quarters.

I must have missed the reason why Harriel didn't play. We could have really used her today as our best and most consistent perimeter shooter. I also continue to feel like Ogden is being underutilized. Talk about a perfect fit for the portal. Not that I've heard anything or think she should leave, but that's a lot of talent to consistently play few minutes with hardly any impact.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State, Sunday 12pm; preview and game thread - petersalas - 01-12-2025

I’m sorry to say and seem a bit negative, but when Ogden comes in, she makes many mistakes.. she made a good move today only to miss the layup. She hasn’t been able to put it to together in a while. She started the season well, but just hasn’t done anything in the minutes played. She comes in for Elena and when they are both off, it just makes it doesn’t bode well.

Hopefully Jzanya is just ill because I didn’t even see her at Maples today..

(01-12-2025, 03:08 PM)BillBradley Wrote: Wes Moore is a really good coach. Nailed the game plan IMO. Make Demetre put it on the floor. Put a big body on Nunu all game long with tons of help and never help off her. Let the guards shoot threes. Take your chances with Bosgana. Make the others beat you. And that's how the game went until they were up by 25+. We will beat no one with Demetre scoring 3 points on 4 shots while our guards shoot it 29 times. I actually think our guards played decently offensively, but I can't believe KP is giving them so much freedom. Agara and Demetre have to be the lead dogs IMO.

I'm really impressed with the NC State team. They play a disciplined style of basketball. They have decent athleticism and could play an all-up-in-your-face style of defense, but they don't. They just do what they are supposed to. We had 43 points in the first 3 quarters.

I must have missed the reason why Harriel didn't play. We could have really used her today as our best and most consistent perimeter shooter. I also continue to feel like Ogden is being underutilized. Talk about a perfect fit for the portal. Not that I've heard anything or think she should leave, but that's a lot of talent to consistently play few minutes with hardly any impact.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State, Sunday 12pm; preview and game thread - CompSci87 - 01-12-2025

(01-12-2025, 02:48 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(01-12-2025, 02:35 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: I like the fight in the 4th quarter. NC State decided to mail it in this quarter and happily we're taking some advantage.

Did they mail it in or did they just empty their bench?
I don't know because I turned it off.
I suppose if you are looking for something positive to say about the game that's as good as any.

I think they mostly kept their regular rotation players in.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State, Sunday 12pm; preview and game thread - JohnR34231 - 01-12-2025

(01-12-2025, 03:08 PM)BillBradley Wrote: Wes Moore is a really good coach. Nailed the game plan IMO. Make Demetre put it on the floor. Put a big body on Nunu all game long with tons of help and never help off her. Let the guards shoot threes. Take your chances with Bosgana. Make the others beat you. And that's how the game went until they were up by 25+. We will beat no one with Demetre scoring 3 points on 4 shots while our guards shoot it 29 times. I actually think our guards played decently offensively, but I can't believe KP is giving them so much freedom. Agara and Demetre have to be the lead dogs IMO.

I'm really impressed with the NC State team. They play a disciplined style of basketball. They have decent athleticism and could play an all-up-in-your-face style of defense, but they don't. They just do what they are supposed to. We had 43 points in the first 3 quarters.

I must have missed the reason why Harriel didn't play. We could have really used her today as our best and most consistent perimeter shooter. I also continue to feel like Ogden is being underutilized. Talk about a perfect fit for the portal. Not that I've heard anything or think she should leave, but that's a lot of talent to consistently play few minutes with hardly any impact.

Yeah, Ogden was considered one of the ten best recruits in the nation coming out of high school. She has done virtually nothing while at Stanford.
Also, Lauren Betts has gone from a bench warmer at Stanford to now being considered one of the best players in the nation.
What are we doing wrong? I'd like to know.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - 81alum - 01-12-2025

Not a lot to add to what has been said. I've been through worse losses at Maples. Nice that North Carolina State is not a bunch of transfers, but just a really good team the old-fashioned way. I do wonder how the season would be going had we matched USC's $800,000 to keep Kiki.

Bosgana and Demetre were just "off" from three point range, while North Carolina State was "on." Ijiwoye started with a couple of treys--highly encouraging, and that helped give us a really good quarter. Even better, Shay helped get James into foul trouble and the best player on the NCS team had to sit for extended minutes.

Sadly, NCS seemed to do quite well with her on the bench. During that stretch our usual trey-makers couldn't hit, and our offense was stymied. Then our defense just collapsed in the third quarter. Finally the fourth quarter had some feel-good moments in the losing cause.

Coming up: Wake Forest, Duke, and Cal. Wake Forest is 0-5 in league play so far, so let's hope we can get our first road win there.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - BobK - 01-12-2025

Harriel was Ill thus not at the Game
NC State came in as a much better team and they showed why.
Our weakness lack of inside defense. Nothing against Nunu but she is the brink of the world. Thus we cheat inside leaving a player open on the perimeter

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - petersalas - 01-12-2025

The press conference:

https://youtu.be/_qHIOkSHtEU?si=WnE9VUaTnluHIpho

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - 81alum - 01-12-2025

There is one positive aspect to this game, and that was Clardy's progress. She hit treys and also drove effectively to make layups. We really need her to become consistent and to ramp up her offense, and today she did.

I really do continue to like Tess Heal, and Shay Ijiwoye's development is promising. With the best point guard in next year's class coming in, we are set up to have some really good guard play next year, which seems to be exactly what we need in the ACC.

There...it took me a couple of hours of reflection to figure out something positive to say ;)

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - petersalas - 01-12-2025

Thank you for this because you are 100% right and that was something to really like. It’s definitely going to be a bumpy road but we knew that. I don’t know expect it to be like this for very long.. I just hope it gets better soon to build momentum toward the end of season.

(01-12-2025, 05:28 PM)81alum Wrote: There is one positive aspect to this game, and that was Clardy's progress. She hit treys and also drove effectively to make layups. We really need her to become consistent and to ramp up her offense, and today she did.

I really do continue to like Tess Heal, and Shay Ijiwoye's development is promising. With the best point guard in next year's class coming in, we are set up to have some really good guard play next year, which seems to be exactly what we need in the ACC.

There...it took me a couple of hours of reflection to figure out something positive to say ;)

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - TonyLima - 01-12-2025

(01-12-2025, 05:28 PM)81alum Wrote: There is one positive aspect to this game, and that was Clardy's progress. She hit treys and also drove effectively to make layups. We really need her to become consistent and to ramp up her offense, and today she did.

I really do continue to like Tess Heal, and Shay Ijiwoye's development is promising. With the best point guard in next year's class coming in, we are set up to have some really good guard play next year, which seems to be exactly what we need in the ACC.

There...it took me a couple of hours of reflection to figure out something positive to say ;)

Agree about the progress of Shay and Tess. I, too, noticed Clardy’s improvement. Young team improving steadily. Fun to watch.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - UltimateCard - 01-12-2025

This came after Kate pulled Chloe during the timeout, barely one minute into the second half. Teammates bucked her up, coaches coached her up and put her back in to redeem herself a bit.

From my seat at the Stanford end, I also noticed Talana coaching Shay when she subbed out in the second quarter. It’s encouraging that the motivation is still there to improve.

(01-12-2025, 05:46 PM)petersalas Wrote: Thank you for this because you are 100% right and that was something to really like. It’s definitely going to be a bumpy road but we knew that. I don’t know expect it to be like this for very long.. I just hope it gets better soon to build momentum toward the end of season.

(01-12-2025, 05:28 PM)81alum Wrote: There is one positive aspect to this game, and that was Clardy's progress. She hit treys and also drove effectively to make layups. We really need her to become consistent and to ramp up her offense, and today she did.

I really do continue to like Tess Heal, and Shay Ijiwoye's development is promising. With the best point guard in next year's class coming in, we are set up to have some really good guard play next year, which seems to be exactly what we need in the ACC.

There...it took me a couple of hours of reflection to figure out something positive to say ;)

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - GK3 - 01-12-2025

(01-12-2025, 07:49 PM)UltimateCard Wrote: This came after Kate pulled Chloe during the timeout, barely one minute into the second half. Teammates bucked her up, coaches coached her up and put her back in to redeem herself a bit.

From my seat at the Stanford end, I also noticed Talana coaching Shay when she subbed out in the second quarter. It’s encouraging that the motivation is still there to improve.

(01-12-2025, 05:46 PM)petersalas Wrote: Thank you for this because you are 100% right and that was something to really like. It’s definitely going to be a bumpy road but we knew that. I don’t know expect it to be like this for very long.. I just hope it gets better soon to build momentum toward the end of season.

(01-12-2025, 05:28 PM)81alum Wrote: There is one positive aspect to this game, and that was Clardy's progress. She hit treys and also drove effectively to make layups. We really need her to become consistent and to ramp up her offense, and today she did.

I really do continue to like Tess Heal, and Shay Ijiwoye's development is promising. With the best point guard in next year's class coming in, we are set up to have some really good guard play next year, which seems to be exactly what we need in the ACC.

There...it took me a couple of hours of reflection to figure out something positive to say ;)

Sadly, we have played poorly far too many times and looked sort of lost at the same time. What happens when the Portal opens again? Are we going to see further exodus from the program?
While you can rebuild in basketball with just a few new players, I wonder with the departure of our legendary head coach, are we going to have the same attractiveness as a place to go. We have won 9 games, all home games and lost every game we have played on the road. Will we do well enough with the time left to even make the tournament? When was the last time we missed it?

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - 81alum - 01-12-2025

GK, we may not or we may. It depends on how well we do the rest of the way. After beating Florida State the consensus was we were in the last 4 in, and I doubt that losing to #19 will knock us down. But we need to defeat the teams we are supposed to defeat--like Wake Forest--and knock off another good team or two--like Cal--and get up above 18 wins or so. At this point the odds of that happening are no better than 50/50.

This is now and will probably remain the weakest season for Stanford WBB since Tara's second year of coaching. Much later in her career Tara had an 18-12 season in 98-99 and lost in the 1st round. I would be impressed if we could equal that. But given the massive changes happening I think this season is more comparable to Tara's initial two years. She went 13-15 and then 14-14 and did not make the tournament either year. After those two years it took her 3 more to win her first natty, each year progressing further in the tournament.

So to answer your question, the last time we did not make the tournament was 1987.

All of us are disappointed. But let's be sure we direct our concern in the right direction. This has almost nothing to do with the motivation of our players or the quality of our coaching. We have 4 WNBA players on our coaching staff. They know a thing or two about basketball and player development. No, it has everything to do with the corruption of college athletics by money and the destruction of ethical standards that have come with the gross weakening of the NCAA.

Kiki Iriafen would still be leading our team were it not for USC's ability to buy her out with $800,000--something unimaginable when we still attempted to say that college sports was an amateur activity. (And let's not forget that WE developed her. She was a somewhat mediocre forward for her first year or two. And now a different team can cash in on her.) Lauren Betts would still be a Stanford player in another era too. And many of the teams we play against (though not North Carolina State) would be much weaker were it not for their ability to hire players away from the minor leagues of mid majors, with all the player development being contracted out to others. We would be in a very different place if intercollegiate athletics understood that transferring is disruptive to academic success and that the primary purpose of an academy is academics. But we seem to have lost the ethical battle for college athletics, and are attempting to compete against those who embrace the new slime.

Stanford always had higher academic and ethical standards than much of its competition (yes there was an OLD slime too), and that is the primary reason I love Stanford athletics. But the new rules are making it much, much harder to be competitive while upholding elite academic values. And no coach--none--would have an easy time with that at Stanford.

Sadly, we may need to measure our success in other ways than we are used to, given that the most fundamental rules of the game have changed.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - M T - 01-12-2025

Stanford WBB's Strength of Schedule is #18, right between USC #17 and Notre Dame #19. If we had played a weaker SOS, like LSU #49 or Tennessee #61 or Ohio State #74 or FSU #85, our won-loss record would be better.

Unfortunately, travel doesn't factor into SOS.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - TonyLima - 01-12-2025

(01-12-2025, 10:34 PM)M T Wrote: Stanford WBB's Strength of Schedule is #18, right between USC #17 and Notre Dame #19. If we had played a weaker SOS, like LSU #49 or Tennessee #61 or Ohio State #74 or FSU #85, our won-loss record would be better.

Unfortunately, travel doesn't factor into SOS.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - TheFarm07 - 01-12-2025

(01-12-2025, 03:30 PM)81alum Wrote: Not a lot to add to what has been said. I've been through worse losses at Maples. Nice that North Carolina State is not a bunch of transfers, but just a really good team the old-fashioned way. I do wonder how the season would be going had we matched USC's $800,000 to keep Kiki.

A comparable would be the 2012-13 team after Nneka graduated and Chiney became the obvious focal point of the team, head and shoulders above the rest of the squad.

If we say Chiney that year is about equivalent to Kiki this year, then we would move onto the supporting cast. I think right now, I would pick Orrange, Tinkle, Bonnie and Ruef over Agara, Demetre, Clardy and Heal.

(01-12-2025, 09:07 PM)81alum Wrote: All of us are disappointed. But let's be sure we direct our concern in the right direction. This has almost nothing to do with the motivation of our players or the quality of our coaching. We have 4 WNBA players on our coaching staff. They know a thing or two about basketball and player development. No, it has everything to do with the corruption of college athletics by money and the destruction of ethical standards that have come with the gross weakening of the NCAA.

Kiki Iriafen would still be leading our team were it not for USC's ability to buy her out with $800,000--something unimaginable when we still attempted to say that college sports was an amateur activity. (And let's not forget that WE developed her. She was a somewhat mediocre forward for her first year or two. And now a different team can cash in on her.) Lauren Betts would still be a Stanford player in another era too. And many of the teams we play against (though not North Carolina State) would be much weaker were it not for their ability to hire players away from the minor leagues of mid majors, with all the player development being contracted out to others. We would be in a very different place if intercollegiate athletics understood that transferring is disruptive to academic success and that the primary purpose of an academy is academics. But we seem to have lost the ethical battle for college athletics, and are attempting to compete against those who embrace the new slime.

Stanford always had higher academic and ethical standards than much of its competition (yes there was an OLD slime too), and that is the primary reason I love Stanford athletics. But the new rules are making it much, much harder to be competitive while upholding elite academic values. And no coach--none--would have an easy time with that at Stanford.

Sadly, we may need to measure our success in other ways than we are used to, given that the most fundamental rules of the game have changed.

Weren't transfers forced to sit out a year before they could play? Was the rule changed because of NIL or was it COVID? I always thought if the rule was still in place, it would somewhat soften the impact of NIL and players would think twice before changing teams if they had to wait an entire season before they could play.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - Jskass - 01-13-2025

Yes no wait transfers just compound NIL distortions. I think of those as a double whammy and then compounded temporarily by Covid year. But they need to either reinstate one year wait or modify NiL such as having a waiting period to get the money.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - martyup - 01-13-2025

(01-13-2025, 05:47 AM)Jskass Wrote: Yes no wait transfers just compound NIL distortions. I think of those as a double whammy and then compounded temporarily by Covid year. But they need to either reinstate one year wait or modify NiL such as having a waiting period to get the money.

One example of how the NIL issue is destroying college athletics is how USC bought Kiki for $800K. Another example is how Canady was purchased by TXA&M for $1 million. There are thousands of other examples of this "pay to play" activity going on.

Today I was thinking about how the NCAA can come up with rules that won't violate the court's ruling on NIL but will prevent athletes from being poached away from the team to which they committed. Certainly bringing back the one year sit out rule for transfers would be a good start. Another potential rule could focus on separating the right to receive NIL payments and eligibility to play. Making an athlete ineligible to participate in their sport(s) does not deprive them of the ability to receive NIL payments directly from those individuals or entities that want to purchase and use the athlete's name, image, and/or likeness. Certainly impeding their ability to compete would lower their potential earnings when those NIL payments are in reality "pay to play." I have not studied the Alston ruling, so perhaps another member that is familiar with that court decision could help in fleshing out this idea.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - fullmetal - 01-13-2025

Point of information: Canady is at Texas Tech now.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 81 - martyup - 01-14-2025

(01-13-2025, 11:53 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Point of information: Canady is at Texas Tech now.

At least I got the state right.

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