NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - Printable Version
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RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - chrisk - 05-22-2025
(05-22-2025, 12:54 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Harvard's foreign student program apparently is being terminated. I assume others will follow. What avenues will Stanford's international students have to continue their education/career track if Stanford's international student program is terminated as I suspect it will be? I anticipate a lot of disruption to the lives of Stanford's international students, but are there ways to mitigate that disruption? For example, can students apply for one-off approval even if their school no longer has the authority to designate people for essentially automatic approval of a student visa? Thanks for any informed input.
While a number of schools have lost funding, Harvard is the only school involved in the escalating actions by the government due to Harvard's refusals to submit to the government's demands for oversight and control of Harvard's operations. Stanford is likely somewhere on the list and some international students may be dissuaded from attending Stanford this coming year, but I doubt Stanford will get a similar letter to today's letter from Noem to Harvard before September.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - M T - 05-22-2025
Rather than worrying about protecting Stanford students against what Harvard terms as unlawful actions by Noem, perhaps 100 or more universities should offer immediate acceptance of all displaced Harvard students. If each school took in 100 students, the students could have a place to land and any vengence by the administration would have to be applied by shotgun.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - 82lsju - 05-22-2025
(05-22-2025, 01:50 PM)chrisk Wrote:(05-22-2025, 12:54 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Harvard's foreign student program apparently is being terminated. I assume others will follow. What avenues will Stanford's international students have to continue their education/career track if Stanford's international student program is terminated as I suspect it will be? I anticipate a lot of disruption to the lives of Stanford's international students, but are there ways to mitigate that disruption? For example, can students apply for one-off approval even if their school no longer has the authority to designate people for essentially automatic approval of a student visa? Thanks for any informed input.
While a number of schools have lost funding, Harvard is the only school involved in the escalating actions by the government due to Harvard's refusals to submit to the government's demands for oversight and control of Harvard's operations. Stanford is likely somewhere on the list and some international students may be dissuaded from attending Stanford this coming year, but I doubt Stanford will get a similar letter to today's letter from Noem to Harvard before September.
I would expect the frosh yield on international students to be lower this year, I would also expect some students would decide to continue their studies outside of the US.
(05-22-2025, 01:58 PM)M T Wrote: Rather than worrying about protecting Stanford students against what Harvard terms as unlawful actions by Noem, perhaps 100 or more universities should offer immediate acceptance of all displaced Harvard students. If each school took in 100 students, the students could have a place to land and any vengence by the administration would have to be applied by shotgun.
the link below shows Stanford undergrad population is ~15% "international", assuming Harvard is about the same that would be ~1,100 undergrads (their undergrad population was ~7,100 last year). I would not expect any one University to take more than say 40-80 of these students, assuming ~50 you would need 22 Universities to step up.
https://facts.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate-profile/
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - Papa John - 05-22-2025
While around 1000 undergraduates at Harvard are international, the total number of international students at Harvard is much higher:
https://oneworld.worldwide.harvard.edu/international-students-at-harvard/
Back to undergraduates...my son just applied to college this past fall, and every school had a "commit" date of May 1 for high school seniors. Most schools have worked through their waitlists by now. I know that the transfer commit date is June 1 for the University of California system, June 2 for Stanford, and I don't know that those schools have a waitlist for transfers. In any case, I doubt that there is room at AAU-type schools for undergraduate international students from Harvard.
There is always a study abroad option as a temporary fix for undergrads, but that is limited to 5 months. Still, that would buy some time for a resolution one way or the other between Harvard and the Feds.
As for graduate/professional students, who make up the bulk of Harvard's international students... I'm not sure that there is a workaround. I suppose Harvard could offer courses hybrid online/in-person for some programs, but so many graduate/professional programs require in-person learning because of the research/training component. But then again, maybe the cuts in research funding would be an excuse for Harvard to "not" have so many international graduate/professional students.
Here's a recent op-ed from the Harvard Crimson about the need for Harvard to open an international (i.e. not located physically in the US) campus:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/4/21/place-harvard-international-campuses/
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - TrumpCard - 05-22-2025
For Harvard graduate students, would it not be possible to enroll in classes at other Boston area schools while performing research and TA duties in person at Harvard? The usual deal of free tuition in return for RA or TA work might not be possible, and some grad students might be stuck with an income tax bill, but those might be surmountable obstacles. Harvard might have to be flexible about taking transfer credits as part of their diploma programs. If the same situation were to occur at Stanford, there are plenty of Bay Area schools that could pick up slack as well. This might be more of a challenge for schools in small towns.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - Papa John - 05-22-2025
(05-22-2025, 03:42 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: For Harvard graduate students, would it not be possible to enroll in classes at other Boston area schools while performing research and TA duties in person at Harvard?
Not according to current registration/enrollments requirements for the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences. But like you said, Harvard would have to adopt new rules.
I think transferring credits for continuing students would be especially problematic for the many professional schools at Harvard: Business, Divinity, Design, Education (maybe this one would be easier to transfer credits), Kennedy School of Government, Law, Medicine, Public Health. It might be easier for first-years, but I don't know as I earned my PhD at UCLA and work at a different UC campus, so this is just a WAG!
If this situation extends into the fall, other options for undergrads and non-research graduate/professional students that come to mind are:
(1) leave of absence/gap year until this gets resolved--which it will--and return to Harvard in fall 2026
(2) earn credits at a university in one's home country, if possible given the late date, and return to Harvard, assuming Harvard approves the credit transfers, in fall 2026
(3) leave Harvard permanently for another institution, which would probably require a gap year due to the late date.
Depending on the resolution, a possible fourth option would occur if Harvard experiences a "brain drain" and some international--and domestic-- graduate students follow their former Harvard faculty mentors to other universities.
It's hard for me to imagine this dragging out into the fall, but I never would have imagined this FUBAR conflict in the first place.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - chrisk - 05-22-2025
Given the significance and urgency of the matter, I would think that Harvard could get an injunction quickly, which would likely be sustained through the Supreme Court given the fact that Noem has little to no factual evidence at this point to support her claims.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - dabigv13 - 05-22-2025
Even if the admin loses in court, this will still have a chilling effect. The world's best and brightest might not think it's worth the risk to come to the US if they might be jailed or deported for their speech or unable to get a job after they get their degree.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - Giants - 05-23-2025
Meanwhile, a number of European countries are establishing a variety of programs to attract U.S. citizens, especially those individuals who are interested in pursuing a career in the sciences. A smart move that could have a profound impact on the future of research in this country.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - 82lsju - 05-23-2025
(05-22-2025, 08:25 PM)chrisk Wrote: Given the significance and urgency of the matter, I would think that Harvard could get an injunction quickly, which would likely be sustained through the Supreme Court given the fact that Noem has little to no factual evidence at this point to support her claims.
Quote:Harvard University is challenging the Trump administration’s decision to bar the Ivy League school from enrolling foreign students, calling it unconstitutional retaliation for defying the White House’s political demands.
In a lawsuit filed Friday in federal court in Boston, Harvard said the government’s action violates the First Amendment and will have an “immediate and devastating effect for Harvard and more than 7,000 visa holders.”
“With the stroke of a pen, the government has sought to erase a quarter of Harvard’s student body, international students who contribute significantly to the University and its mission,” Harvard said in its suit. “Without its international students, Harvard is not Harvard.”
The school said it plans to file for a temporary restraining order to block the Department of Homeland Security from carrying out the move.
https://apnews.com/article/harvard-foreign-students-enrollment-trump-lawsuit-94b65866c563e67a7a7a3c79e90144d6
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - M T - 05-23-2025
Harvard, the institution, pre-dates the United States. It will survive the current 4-year regime. It is the international students who will be hurt the most directly.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - terry - 05-23-2025
(05-23-2025, 07:36 AM)82lsju Wrote:Quote:The school said it plans to file for a temporary restraining order to block the Department of Homeland Security from carrying out the move.
https://apnews.com/article/harvard-foreign-students-enrollment-trump-lawsuit-94b65866c563e67a7a7a3c79e90144d6
A judge in Boston has granted a temporary restraining order temporarily preventing the Trump administration from enforcing the ban on international students.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/22/us/harvard-university-trump-international-students
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - TrumpCard - 05-23-2025
If the consensus is that Stanford won't have its intl student program terminated, then that's a relief. I was/am not convinced of that. I see the preliminary injunction, but those get overturned sometimes, or even if not, the policy can be refined to barely comply with legal requirements. I just want to see Stanford be able to continue its mission without interference.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - Papa John - 05-23-2025
The discussion here has been about Harvard, and I don't know that there's any consensus regarding Stanford given the unprecedented nature of this situation. President Levin has not commented publicly, as far as I can tell, on what's transpired in the past 48 hours at Harvard.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - Goose - 05-23-2025
So far it seems the other Universities that may run into problems similar to the ones Harvard currently faces are keeping a low profile. They are hoping Harvard will be "one off" event. Of course, they also privately hope that Harvard can successfully oppose this action by the HHS through the courts. If not, the way ahead for foreign students in the US is probably very bleak.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - GK3 - 05-24-2025
(05-22-2025, 12:54 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Harvard's foreign student program apparently is being terminated. I assume others will follow. What avenues will Stanford's international students have to continue their education/career track if Stanford's international student program is terminated as I suspect it will be? I anticipate a lot of disruption to the lives of Stanford's international students, but are there ways to mitigate that disruption? For example, can students apply for one-off approval even if their school no longer has the authority to designate people for essentially automatic approval of a student visa? Thanks for any informed input.A very good questions, what effect will it have on the foreign students participating in NCAA sports, say Women's and Men's golf, maybe gymnastics, swimming and water polo? It was my understanding that the intent was to prohibit Harvard from taking any international students. If they are going to stop the Belgian princess from enrolling I wouldn't see much chance for athletes. I will let someone else kick this political football down the road.
(05-23-2025, 12:13 AM)Giants Wrote: Meanwhile, a number of European countries are establishing a variety of programs to attract U.S. citizens, especially those individuals who are interested in pursuing a career in the sciences. A smart move that could have a profound impact on the future of research in this country.A very good point. The people in Europe are hardly stupid and if we want to do stupid things that help them, I am sure they are all for it. I have no idea how many foreign students remain in the US, working, then eventually becoming citizens. The young people affected certainly do not deserve to become political footballs. If Nativism is to become the order of the day it could have a very negative impact.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - fullmetal - 05-25-2025
Various nations have reached out to Harvard to propose an "exile" campus on their home soil. There are plenty of universities with international campuses, though the quality and similarity of social/academic experience would undoubtedly be dissimilar to a university's flagship campus.
RE: NIH funding cuts- Stanford to lose ~168 million/year. - 82lsju - 05-25-2025
I don't know anything about The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology but this is an interesting development
Quote:"The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST) today announced an open invitation to international undergraduate and postgraduate students currently enrolled at Harvard University, as well as those holding confirmed offers for Harvard degree programs, to continue their academic pursuits at HKUST. This initiative comes in response to evolving global academic landscapes and reinforces HKUST’s commitment to fostering a diverse, world-class learning environment."
https://hkust.edu.hk/news/hkust-opens-doors-harvard-students-amid-global-academic-shifts
Mudhead - Mudhead - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 11:51 AM)82lsju Wrote: I don't know anything about The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology but this is an interesting development
Quote:"The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST) today announced an open invitation to international undergraduate and postgraduate students currently enrolled at Harvard University, as well as those holding confirmed offers for Harvard degree programs, to continue their academic pursuits at HKUST. This initiative comes in response to evolving global academic landscapes and reinforces HKUST’s commitment to fostering a diverse, world-class learning environment."
https://hkust.edu.hk/news/hkust-opens-doors-harvard-students-amid-global-academic-shifts
You gotta love it ..”a world class learning environment” in Hong Kong today. I guess as long as you learn what the Party believes, its world class.
RE: Mudhead - TrumpCard - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 11:55 AM)Mudhead Wrote:(05-25-2025, 11:51 AM)82lsju Wrote: I don't know anything about The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology but this is an interesting development
Quote:"The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology (HKUST) today announced an open invitation to international undergraduate and postgraduate students currently enrolled at Harvard University, as well as those holding confirmed offers for Harvard degree programs, to continue their academic pursuits at HKUST. This initiative comes in response to evolving global academic landscapes and reinforces HKUST’s commitment to fostering a diverse, world-class learning environment."
https://hkust.edu.hk/news/hkust-opens-doors-harvard-students-amid-global-academic-shifts
You gotta love it ..”a world class learning environment” in Hong Kong today. I guess as long as you learn what the Party believes, its world class.
Arguably asme at Harvard…