The CardBoard
Baylor - Stanford - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Baylor - Stanford (/thread-3188.html)

Pages: 1 2

Re: Baylor - Stanford - 81alum - 04-02-2012

During the game I thought our defense was excellent but I increasingly got the feeling that we were letting Griner change our offense too much.  Nneka was able to use her superior mobility to drive past Griner and I thought she could have done that more consistently--especially after Griner got her third foul.  And so I was interested in this quote:

Quote:"We were too worried about her," Nneka Ogwumike said of Griner. "In reality, attacking her wasn't as hard as we thought it would be."

http://www.mercurynews.com/march-madness/ci_20305024

I think Nneka had it exactly right.  Griner is good, but it wasn't her physical presence that beat us so much as the psychological effects of her intimidation.  To a degree, we might have been better off sticking closer to a more normal offense and conceding that we would get a few more blocked.  Getting a few more blocked would not discombobulate us as much as we did all by ourselves.

Think about it this way.  Baylor let Georgia Tech, Kansas State, A&M, Texas Tech, Connecticut, Minnesota, Tennessee, and the University of South Bend score 60 points or more.  Given our great defensive game plan, all we needed to do to win was match any of those teams' offensive output against Baylor.  Several of those teams are quite inferior to us--so the right offensive game plan should have been able to generate 60 points.

So it was the best of times (defense), it was the worst of times (offense).  Tara deserves credit for a brilliant defensive game plan but deserves blame for not figuring out how to match the offensive output of a Kansas State.  This is one team that I would love to play again.

Re: Baylor - Stanford - teejers1 - 04-02-2012

There is nothing wrong with standing in a position on the court with your arms extended (or in semi-TD mode), and that's true whether you are under the bucket or at mid court.  To say that because Chiney wasn't down on the low block awaiting a pass, her arms extended meant she fouled is totally wrong.  How you establish position is irrelevant to the proper call.  Now, if you think she initiated contact, then you can defend the call.

But I gotta tell ya, it looked to me like Griner was the one trying to go through Chiney.  And btw, if you get shoved in the back, what is your immediate, instinctive reaction?  I think it is to put your arms out in exactly the fashion that Chiney did.  My take was and is that a "no call" was the proper decision, but if you call a foul, it should have been on Griner.

But maybe I'm viewing things through a rose-colored lens. 

Re: Baylor - Stanford - 76lsjumb - 04-02-2012

(04-02-2012, 09:56 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:But maybe I'm viewing things through a rose-colored lens.

If so, I went to the same optician...

Re: Baylor - Stanford - Leftcoast - 04-02-2012

Terry -  I believe you're wrong about extending elbows and arms WHEN SETTING A SCREEN.  Legal screens are stationary, elbows and hands within the frame of the body and not initiating the contact.  Chiney looked like she was blocking out for a rebound while stopping Griner from moving laterally across the court. 

Re: Baylor - Stanford - Leftcoast - 04-02-2012

So the argument would need to be that she was establishing offensive position rather than screening a defender - and that's not what the refs saw.

Re: Baylor - Stanford - Griffins78 - 04-03-2012

Love our team and definitely feel privileged and proud to have watched and cheered Nneka. She is amazing in so many different ways that it really would take a book to even begin to describe her profound impact. We yelled as hard as we could trying to help the team win, especially for Nneka.

I think the game plan was brilliant and it worked, perhaps better than any other team to have faced Baylor, but then it was up to our players to execute and to the referees. We didn't hit the 3s we needed and were capable of. Just our average (which was the lowest in years or ever) and we could have won. But the big X factor is the referees. We never know how they are going to call the game.

After going through the Pac12 and first 4 games of the NCAAs getting literally beat up as the refs let teams (especially shorter teams like Hampton, West Virginia, and South Carolina) play extremely physical - pushing, shaving and grabbing - games AGAINST us - it seemed to me that ONE referee, the blond ponytail - decided single handedly that she wasn't going to let us play physically with Brittney and Baylor. Tara was much too classy to say it - all she said was that the foul calling "was different." But watch any other Final Four game - the ND/UConn game or any of the men's games and you'll see a different game.

I don't think you want the referees, especially one single ref, to affect the outcome, but she did. The game was very close but both Chiney and Nneka get into fouls trouble and it alters their play. Chiney became a non-factor in the second half and then was gone completely. In the Final Four, do you want the Pac12 defensive player of the year out of the game against Brittney Griner? Let them play.

Of course you cannot control the refereeing and we need to adjust and if we hit our 3s we could overcome the refs but when we're in the Final Four the difference between going home and being crowned the national champion can be and is as small a difference as that.

Random thoughts:

Don't think Amber seemed her usual self. Tara said Amber was tired. Might have been the altitude - don't know but she didn't move the way she had been moving, especially against their press. We've handled everyone's press all year - until Baylor. Next year Jasmine and Alex will give us options, depth, speed, quickness, ball handling, etc. that would have made a difference this year.

Boothe played Brittney well. Tara didn't have much time to get Sarah ready and integrated and at times it didn't seem like she could but she was played really well. Don't know if she'll return next year but I would live to see her play like she did her freshman year (or better) before she finishes her career here.

Jos was the big X factor. Fronting Griner was very effective and the key to our game plan, but even though she's been on fire outside the arc and was hitting in practice and warmups it just wasn't there during the game. I predict she will have a fire burning this off season again and next year she'll have a monster year. Does she move inside or stay on the wing? I say inside to her natural position with the ability to go outside and hit the 3. She'll be a tough matchup.

In the first half the offense went through Chiney at the high post and she was making killer passes. I can't wait to see how her game develops and grows. Nneka has made a big impact upon the leadership foundation that Chiney will continue to develop and enrich. I love this team.

I think it took Toni awhile to recover from last year's injury against St Johns - the incident that I believe cost us the NC. But, I don't think Toni got back to the level of fearlessness and play that she was at her peak last year. I'm looking forward to her getting back to full Toni.

After losing Jeanette and Kayla, it was going to be a challenge to get back to the FF but this team did it. Losing Nneka seems like an even tougher challenge, but the foundation is there - the will, the hard work, the togetherness, and belief. See you in New Orleans!




Re: Baylor - Stanford - Yellowlab - 04-03-2012

It probably should be noted that Toni was being stretched out at half time by Sue B. Every game in the post season.  Toni did not warm up with the team.  She played like a champ, but something was wrong.

Re: Baylor - Stanford - 81alum - 04-03-2012

What happened to Taylor?  Was there a reason she did not play? 

I would think that another strong body who could absorb a few fouls and who could sometimes get hot with the three would have had some minutes, unless her old injury flared up?

Re: Baylor - Stanford - Yellowlab - 04-04-2012

We did not get any update on Taylor.  I suspect that Tara used a limited rotation and Bonny got the nod over Talor.  Similar thing with the A&M game last year with Ruef and Tinkle.

Re: Baylor - Stanford - Griffins78 - 04-05-2012

Thanks wbbfan2 for pointing that out about Toni. I had not noticed.

Listening to the replay of the NC game, Devereaux Peters said that after the UConn game she was the most tired she had ever been and Skylar Diggins said that she was gassed waiting for the timeout. I think Amber was tired too.

My opinion about Taylor (and to some extent the other freshmen) is that Tara tried to give them a lot of playing time at the beginning of the year. I suspect she knew she was going to need them at the end of the season and she gave them a chance to prove themselves, learn the system and the level of play, and see how they did. If she played Jos and others at the beginning of the year, she would not have been able to give quality minutes to the freshmen. Taylor started, played well - she is smart, skilled, handles the ball, passes, shots, etc. She's the closest we've seen to Kayla. My impression is that Taylor did not look for her shot enough and somewhere along the way seemed to lose a little confidence. She was less aggressive and at times seemed afraid to shoot. As we headed into the home stretch, it was clear what we needed most was a 3 point shooter. Neither Lindy nor Toni's 3-pt shot really returned to their previous levels. Bonnie became the go to 3 point shooter more as the year went on. She was fearless was always ready to fire. I think that was the biggest reason why Bonnie played instead of Taylor.

I really look forward to Taylor's development this off season and hope to see a break out year for her next year. She definitely has the ability.