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Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - Printable Version

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Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - FarmBoy - 02-07-2013

Not to defend Lavin, who I never particularly liked and clearly under-performed with the talent he had, but it's an insult to Lavin to compare Kiffen to him. He had 6 straight NCAA appearances and only once lost before the Sweet Sixteen. Despite mediocre conference performance, the guy was able to get his players to pick it up in the post season.

Kiffen would love to be in the same class as Lavin.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - fullmetal - 02-07-2013

I'm hoping the recruiting fake-out Kiffin pulled this year results in reduced class quality next year.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - Roberton3 - 02-07-2013

(02-07-2013, 10:56 AM)Publius link Wrote:[quote author=Extra Point link=topic=7501.msg58512#msg58512 date=1360258414]
Because of the sanctions, they are restricted to a maximum of 15 scholarships for next year. They can recruit early admits next year that will count towards the 13 class. But, any roster attrition due to injury, suspensions, academics, transfers, and players leaving for the NFL, will cause them great pain.

That's what I thought but this article quotes him as saying he can save those scholarships for next year.  Maybe he's lying.  Honesty is not his forte.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/Under Stanford Control-signs-star-studded-class-005926435--ncaaf.html
[/quote]

As Extra Point said, early admits for 2014 count toward the 2013 class.  So, in effect, he can save those scholarships for next year, as long as he can convince enough of next year's recruits to show up early (as he did this year -- six of this year's recruits showed up early, and were counted toward 2012).

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - Farm93 - 02-07-2013

I suspect everything is looking ideal for Kiffin to be fired in December.

The 2014 recruiting effort will need to play by the same crazy rules with a bunch coming early against the 2013 limit and 15 against the 2014 limit.  Seems as though combined SC could add ~22 admits.  And this odd recruiting is Kiffin's specialty.  However, by December that game will be all but done.

A new coach would normally not get to recruit his type of guys in that ~60 day window anyway, so getting hired in December 2013 would be ideal.  ~7 guys would literally be moving to the program in January 2014, so the new coach would need to hold on to or find 15 guys.

Then that coach could really push to recruit a bunch of his guys for the unrestricted 2015 class.  If Kiffin coaches in 2014 then that needed 2015 mega class would have Kiffin's kids as verbals.  And then that massive class of Kiffin's kids would not be gone until late 2018.  Probably best for the new coach to be responsible for that class.

How many wins does Kiffin need in 2013 to save his job?  My guess is 9 in the regular season with at least one of those wins vs (South Bend, UCLA or Stanford).

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - Bruce Wang - 02-07-2013

UCLA is benefiting much more from U$C's woes than Stanford is.  UCLA is becoming too strong, and U$C too weak.  We need those two to slug it out to a stalemate.  I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may cheer for U$C to have a better season than UCLA with the two going combined 0-2 or 0-3 against Stanford.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - jayasena - 02-08-2013

(02-07-2013, 09:51 PM)Publius link Wrote:UCLA is benefiting much more from U$C's woes than Stanford is.  UCLA is becoming too strong, and U$C too weak.  We need those two to slug it out to a stalemate.  I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may cheer for U$C to have a better season than UCLA with the two going combined 0-2 or 0-3 against Stanford.

Plus beating a perceived-strong USC team gets us lots of national respect. Beating UCLA, regardless of how good that team is, doesn't have the same cachet. So I agree that the best scenario for Stanford is for those two teams to be balanced with perhaps a slight edge to USC.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - washingtonismoney - 02-08-2013

I wonder if Kiffin has enough rope to pull off an advanced hot-seat coach maneuver: putting in your least experienced, yet highest-upside QB (in this case, Max Browne). Such a maneuver gives you a built-in excuse for tanking the season. It's so good, I always wonder why it isn't deployed more often. Tedford, for instance, should've done it this year with Zach Kline -- if not preseason, sometime in the middle of the season.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - fullmetal - 02-08-2013

Shaw didn't have enough rope to do it with a redshirt freshman QB--so much the worse for the other guys.  The only way you could make that work is if you installed the QB's high school playbook and took as much learning curve out of the equation as possible. 

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - washingtonismoney - 02-08-2013

(02-08-2013, 11:28 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:Shaw didn't have enough rope to do it with a redshirt freshman QB--so much the worse for the other guys.  The only way you could make that work is if you installed the QB's high school playbook and took as much learning curve out of the equation as possible.

Shaw absolutely had the rope; but then again, he wasn't in danger of being fired. The point, however, isn't actual performance. In fact, it's unrelated to actual performance. The point is to make it seem as if you're building towards something (that includes you, Mr. Genius Coach) that excuses the rest of your performance/year. The idea is for Kiffin to be able to go to Pat Haden and, with as straight a face as possible, explain that SC's second straight 7-5 season is because they were starting a guy fresh out of high school. It's to be expected, but gosh darn it one more year and we've got this thing SEWN UP.

(Then Kiffin collects another year's salary and cackles home.)

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - stanfan - 02-08-2013

Pat Haden didn't just fall off the turnip truck.  If Kiffen doesn't have a seasoned QB at hand and Browne isn't ready to go, it's on Lame.  I have to believe that Kiffen either gets it done in 2013 or he will be gone.  Unfortunately, that would be more of a loss for us than the University under Stanford Control.

Wouldn't Kiffin collect his salary fired or employed? - Redrum - 02-08-2013

I think its the out years, the contract extension years, the building a new legend at Troy years that Kiffin craves.  He's pretty well set for money although any extension (should it happen) is for a shorter term, then he'll know to start living a more frugal lifestyle.  Where would Kiffin go?  OC in NFL possibly.  Don't know what his reputation as offensive mind is...or was.  Anyway, he'd work the mean-old-NCAA-crippling-sanctions excuse for everything its worth when trying to explain his USC gig.  Another head coaching gig but in another conference besides the Pac12 or the SEC (where he's already **** in his own hat).  Probably another Cincinnati-class or similar.  Some place desperate that needs a good recruiter. 

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - washingtonismoney - 02-08-2013

(02-08-2013, 01:05 PM)stanfan link Wrote:Pat Haden didn't just fall off the turnip truck. 

How do we know this? Can't say I'm a close follower of all things T.rojan, but there hasn't been much that tells me Haden's a sharp operator. (His hiring of Kevin O'Neill for basketball coach suggests the exact opposite, actually.) (EDIT: to be far, there hasn't been a whole lot to suggest he isn't a sharp operator either. He's kind of neutral.) 

At any rate, for hot seat coach it's all about upping the odds. If the odds are increased, however infinitesimally, that you can hoodwink your boss that way you do it.

Re: Redrum's question about whether K.iffin collects his pay anyway: well, if he was hired under the Tedford Plan, yeah he would. I presume he has a buyout of some sort, in which case it's financially worthwhile to actually collect his salary, to say nothing of what I presume are pretty nice expense-account-related perks.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - FarmBoy - 02-08-2013

I agree that Tedford replacing Maynard with Zach Kline could have been a helpful gambit in keeping his job, but that's because (a) it would have been a big leap to replace a player with a year+ of starting experience with a true freshman and (b) it was clear that Zach Maynard was not going to get the job done (or help Tedford keep his), so any change at that point would have increased Tedford's chances. I don't think going with a true freshman over a red shirt sophomore with just 2 games starting experience is as dramatic a leap, nor is it clear that Wittek is dead in the water as a QB and therfore a change is the right move.

Kiffen needs to go with the player that maximizes his team's chances of winning. Or he will get bagged at the end of the 2013 season.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - StannyBoy - 02-08-2013

I can't see Max Browne starting for them this year.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - washingtonismoney - 02-09-2013

The meltdown continues, with Kiffin firing his offensive coordinator.

SC players didn't take the news well: http://www.conquestchronicles.com/2013/2/8/3969758/usc-players-react-to-kennedy-polamalu-news

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - Bruce Wang - 02-09-2013

Typical shady Lane Violation move.  Fire an assistant after NSD.  I hope next year's recruits remember this.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - yvonne - 02-09-2013

Next year's recruits might not have to.

Count me in the Teflon Trojan camp - Redrum - 02-09-2013

I think most of the recruits who committed aren't focused on the politics of coaching staffs,  at least not enough to take some principled stand or nurse a grudge.  When Fall camp (or Spring practice for some) starts,  they'll be thinking about football there on the field,  taking hits and trying to stick with guys who have 3-4 years of top-flight varsity experience.  Memories of  Polamalu
will be minimal and fleeting.  The position coaches who are there at the time will be their only concern.  And next year's recruits will be focused more on how the Trojans are doing on the field and on Lane Kiffin.

It's nice to see Trojans writhe in pain and discombobulation,  but they've been discombobulated before and maintained their mysterious power over young mens' minds.  I just hope they can blunt UCLA's success.

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - 76lsjumb - 02-09-2013

(02-09-2013, 09:10 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:The meltdown continues, with Kiffin firing his offensive coordinator.

SC players didn't take the news well: http://www.conquestchronicles.com/2013/2/8/3969758/Under Stanford Control-players-react-to-kennedy-polamalu-news

Wow.  Reading those makes it a whole lot easier to credit the "fight in the Sun Bowl locker room" stories.  Just not sensing a lot of good feelings there...

Also, I seemed to recall that, when the season began, there were a number of prominent columnist types espousing the view that this was the year that Lame Kitten was going to put it all together and show what a great coach he really was.  Sure enough, a couple of minutes on Google brought back this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/stewart_mandel/08/01/usc-lane-kiffin-mailbag/index.html#

All things considered, in the future I'd be more inclined to believe the guy who wrote the "Dewey Beats Truman" headline over Stewart Mandel...

Re: Epic meltdown in progress: Literature's Greatest Losers - Leftcoast - 02-09-2013

Don't forget that in the midst of what the Cardboard is calling a "meltdown" U.S.C scored five 5 star players and an average star rating of 4.42 with a class roughly the same size as ours.

They are dangerous.