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The Hoganing Continues - Printable Version

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Re: The Hoganing Continues - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2012

Not trying to say there's a clearly observable "point" or "lesson." Just found it surprising and think it's odd.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2012

Not trying to say there's a clearly observable "point" or "lesson." Just found it surprising and think it's odd.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Cardinal96 - 10-30-2012

Shaw is handling this right.  It is clear that Hogan is now the 2nd string QB per Wilner.  I think he wants to give Hogan a chance to show what he can do but, at the same time, doesn't know if he is ready to start yet.  Hopefully, Hogan can play very well.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Cardinal96 - 10-30-2012

Shaw is handling this right.  It is clear that Hogan is now the 2nd string QB per Wilner.  I think he wants to give Hogan a chance to show what he can do but, at the same time, doesn't know if he is ready to start yet.  Hopefully, Hogan can play very well.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Farm93 - 10-30-2012

The program seems clear enough, and has been clear for a few weeks for those that watch the post-game press conference.

The choice is not Nunes vs Nottingham for 1-3 years.  The choice was Nunes vs. Nottingham for 8-12 games.  Hogan learns the pre-snap reads and the job is his.  So replacing Nunes with Nottingham for 3-4 games would just not be sensible unless Nottingham was much better than Nunes.  And that is unlikely given the Hogan bias.

The Hogan package has been exciting because the offense just seems to click better.  However some of that may have been due to a lack of game film on Hogan and the Hogan plays.  I doubt Colorado will be a good test, so it will be interesting to see what happens during the OSU game since they will have a better opportunity to plan for Hogan.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Farm93 - 10-30-2012

The program seems clear enough, and has been clear for a few weeks for those that watch the post-game press conference.

The choice is not Nunes vs Nottingham for 1-3 years.  The choice was Nunes vs. Nottingham for 8-12 games.  Hogan learns the pre-snap reads and the job is his.  So replacing Nunes with Nottingham for 3-4 games would just not be sensible unless Nottingham was much better than Nunes.  And that is unlikely given the Hogan bias.

The Hogan package has been exciting because the offense just seems to click better.  However some of that may have been due to a lack of game film on Hogan and the Hogan plays.  I doubt Colorado will be a good test, so it will be interesting to see what happens during the OSU game since they will have a better opportunity to plan for Hogan.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - fullmetal - 10-30-2012

(10-30-2012, 05:50 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:The curious thing about the performance is that Nunes had by far the fewest pass attempts of any game this year. The curious-er thing is that the three games with the fewest Nunes passes--SJSU, WSU, ND--were the worst games for the offense.

You might postulate that even though Nunes threw fewer times, the offensive balance should have had more passing in there--and that Nunes wasn't trusted with the throws.  Or the offensive playcalling got thrown out of whack.  I don't think you should sacrifice offensive balance or situational football because you fear something bad happening with your QB. 

Re: The Hoganing Continues - fullmetal - 10-30-2012

(10-30-2012, 05:50 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:The curious thing about the performance is that Nunes had by far the fewest pass attempts of any game this year. The curious-er thing is that the three games with the fewest Nunes passes--SJSU, WSU, ND--were the worst games for the offense.

You might postulate that even though Nunes threw fewer times, the offensive balance should have had more passing in there--and that Nunes wasn't trusted with the throws.  Or the offensive playcalling got thrown out of whack.  I don't think you should sacrifice offensive balance or situational football because you fear something bad happening with your QB. 

Re: The Hoganing Continues - estephan500 - 10-30-2012


That news story, the espn link, is a blockbuster, with Shaw clearly moderating his support for Nunes, and announcing his "split QBs" plan for the next game.

-- This may be obvious to others: Though that story comes under an AP byline, is the idea that that's obviously Jon Wilner's piece?

-- The original announcement that crowned Nunes made it seem like 50% of the criteria for a QB under shaw was game management.  So I'm surprised I haven't found a quote flagging that Hogan is good at game management, or showing improvement at it...  or rumors that that was a particular failing of nottingham.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - estephan500 - 10-30-2012


That news story, the espn link, is a blockbuster, with Shaw clearly moderating his support for Nunes, and announcing his "split QBs" plan for the next game.

-- This may be obvious to others: Though that story comes under an AP byline, is the idea that that's obviously Jon Wilner's piece?

-- The original announcement that crowned Nunes made it seem like 50% of the criteria for a QB under shaw was game management.  So I'm surprised I haven't found a quote flagging that Hogan is good at game management, or showing improvement at it...  or rumors that that was a particular failing of nottingham.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Bruce Wang - 10-31-2012

At the outset of the season, I wondered why Shaw didn't pick Nottingham.  If it really was neck and neck and this is a rebuilding year, start the guy with more eligibility.  From the outside, the fact pattern suggests the following: the coaching staff realized that Hogan would likely start next season, but wasn't quite ready this season.  So just for this season, it was a choice between Nunes and Nottingham.

Since it's unlikely Nottingham will ever start for Stanford, he should transfer to Harvard, Princeton, or Yale: the only other schools in the Ivy League that are even in Stanford's league academically.  He would dominate.  I've seen a couple Harvard-Yale games and I wondered if my high school's team could beat them.  (Note that my high school is a powerhouse and has produced several NFL players.)  Ryan Fitzpatrick has proven you can play QB in the Ivy League and become an NFL starter.  If Nottingham can make it to the NFL, only then will I question Shaw's judgement on this decision.  Until then: go Nunes!  Go Hogan!  May the best man take us to Pasadena!

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Bruce Wang - 10-31-2012

At the outset of the season, I wondered why Shaw didn't pick Nottingham.  If it really was neck and neck and this is a rebuilding year, start the guy with more eligibility.  From the outside, the fact pattern suggests the following: the coaching staff realized that Hogan would likely start next season, but wasn't quite ready this season.  So just for this season, it was a choice between Nunes and Nottingham.

Since it's unlikely Nottingham will ever start for Stanford, he should transfer to Harvard, Princeton, or Yale: the only other schools in the Ivy League that are even in Stanford's league academically.  He would dominate.  I've seen a couple Harvard-Yale games and I wondered if my high school's team could beat them.  (Note that my high school is a powerhouse and has produced several NFL players.)  Ryan Fitzpatrick has proven you can play QB in the Ivy League and become an NFL starter.  If Nottingham can make it to the NFL, only then will I question Shaw's judgement on this decision.  Until then: go Nunes!  Go Hogan!  May the best man take us to Pasadena!

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Cardinal96 - 10-31-2012

(10-30-2012, 09:58 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:The program seems clear enough, and has been clear for a few weeks for those that watch the post-game press conference.

The choice is not Nunes vs Nottingham for 1-3 years.  The choice was Nunes vs. Nottingham for 8-12 games.  Hogan learns the pre-snap reads and the job is his.  So replacing Nunes with Nottingham for 3-4 games would just not be sensible unless Nottingham was much better than Nunes.  And that is unlikely given the Hogan bias.

The Hogan package has been exciting because the offense just seems to click better.  However some of that may have been due to a lack of game film on Hogan and the Hogan plays.  I doubt Colorado will be a good test, so it will be interesting to see what happens during the OSU game since they will have a better opportunity to plan for Hogan.

Very fair point.  I remember back to the Scott Frost days at Stanford and hope this won't be a parallel.  I am going off memory here but I remember us beating Washington with Frost as QB and they were not ready for a QB that could run like Frost.  However, as the season progressed, defenses gameplanned against that and were successful in minimizing Frost's effectiveness.  Hope that analogy isn't relevant here.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Cardinal96 - 10-31-2012

(10-30-2012, 09:58 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:The program seems clear enough, and has been clear for a few weeks for those that watch the post-game press conference.

The choice is not Nunes vs Nottingham for 1-3 years.  The choice was Nunes vs. Nottingham for 8-12 games.  Hogan learns the pre-snap reads and the job is his.  So replacing Nunes with Nottingham for 3-4 games would just not be sensible unless Nottingham was much better than Nunes.  And that is unlikely given the Hogan bias.

The Hogan package has been exciting because the offense just seems to click better.  However some of that may have been due to a lack of game film on Hogan and the Hogan plays.  I doubt Colorado will be a good test, so it will be interesting to see what happens during the OSU game since they will have a better opportunity to plan for Hogan.

Very fair point.  I remember back to the Scott Frost days at Stanford and hope this won't be a parallel.  I am going off memory here but I remember us beating Washington with Frost as QB and they were not ready for a QB that could run like Frost.  However, as the season progressed, defenses gameplanned against that and were successful in minimizing Frost's effectiveness.  Hope that analogy isn't relevant here.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

(10-30-2012, 05:12 PM)deepred link Wrote:Apparently a QB change is not "asinine" anymore.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8574302/kevin-hogan-stanford-cardinal-split-snaps-quarterback-josh-nunes

I think it's fair to say that there have been a few subsequent developments, including Hogan's apparent development (sure hope so!).

Re: The Hoganing Continues - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

(10-30-2012, 05:12 PM)deepred link Wrote:Apparently a QB change is not "asinine" anymore.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8574302/kevin-hogan-stanford-cardinal-split-snaps-quarterback-josh-nunes

I think it's fair to say that there have been a few subsequent developments, including Hogan's apparent development (sure hope so!).

Re: The Hoganing Continues - fullmetal - 10-31-2012

A QB change is merely a temporary workaround if the root cause is the inability of Stanford's coaching staff to coach up/prepare/teach whoever is currently the QB.  I'm trying to remember not to throw Nunes under the bus =\

Re: The Hoganing Continues - fullmetal - 10-31-2012

A QB change is merely a temporary workaround if the root cause is the inability of Stanford's coaching staff to coach up/prepare/teach whoever is currently the QB.  I'm trying to remember not to throw Nunes under the bus =\

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Farm93 - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 11:29 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:A QB change is merely a temporary workaround if the root cause is the inability of Stanford's coaching staff to coach up/prepare/teach whoever is currently the QB.  I'm trying to remember not to throw Nunes under the bus =\
You mean that coaching staff that is 17-4?  The coaching staff that has crafted the best defense the conference has had in many years?  That coaching staff?

Football is still a team game.  Look no further than SC.  Lee dazzled as he set all kinds of receiving records last week, but the team lost.  Expensive HCs, great QBs, and amazing WR play does not always translate into wins.

Give me a no frills QB and a 17-4 team record with 2 wins over SC and 2 Big Game wins.  If that level of winning is the by-product of some inability to coach/prepare or teach in some aspect of the game then that's OK by me.  Besides if Shaw and the staff could do it all, Shaw would be making $4+ million per year in the NFL.

Re: The Hoganing Continues - Farm93 - 10-31-2012

(10-31-2012, 11:29 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:A QB change is merely a temporary workaround if the root cause is the inability of Stanford's coaching staff to coach up/prepare/teach whoever is currently the QB.  I'm trying to remember not to throw Nunes under the bus =\
You mean that coaching staff that is 17-4?  The coaching staff that has crafted the best defense the conference has had in many years?  That coaching staff?

Football is still a team game.  Look no further than SC.  Lee dazzled as he set all kinds of receiving records last week, but the team lost.  Expensive HCs, great QBs, and amazing WR play does not always translate into wins.

Give me a no frills QB and a 17-4 team record with 2 wins over SC and 2 Big Game wins.  If that level of winning is the by-product of some inability to coach/prepare or teach in some aspect of the game then that's OK by me.  Besides if Shaw and the staff could do it all, Shaw would be making $4+ million per year in the NFL.