Pep to Indy? - Printable Version
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Re: Pep to Indy? - stupac2 - 01-18-2013
(01-18-2013, 04:59 PM)Oasis link Wrote:Given Pep's proclivity for the ordre profond and the slow-developing running play, I wonder why Oregon's flying circus would be interested. He doesn't seem much suited to their system. He's more a guy for Wisconsin.They have to, by Oregon law, interview a minority applicant. My guess is that he just filled that role.
As for Pep leaving, I'm not gnashing my teeth. I think he did a good job, but I think that Shaw can find someone who will do just as well, if not better. Whether it's Bloomgren or an outside hire doesn't matter much, but if there's one thing I have absolute faith in Shaw to do it's find competent coaches.
Re: Pep to Indy? - jayasena - 01-18-2013
Regarding the predictable and slow-developing running plays... whose calls were those? Hamilton's (OC) or Bloomgren's (run game coordinator)?
Re: Pep to Indy? - Bruce Wang - 01-18-2013
Shaw should make Mason the new OC. He's coached RBs and WRs before, and we know the guy can flat out coach.
Mason and Anderson were the ones who went to visit Devon Allen this week. I had figured it was because Pep was on his way out and Shaw couldn't make the trip for whatever reason. Maybe this is the plan...
Re: Pep to Indy? - yvonne - 01-18-2013
(01-18-2013, 05:08 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Oasis link=topic=7422.msg57498#msg57498 date=1358553562]Given Pep's proclivity for the ordre profond and the slow-developing running play, I wonder why Oregon's flying circus would be interested. He doesn't seem much suited to their system. He's more a guy for Wisconsin.They have to, by Oregon law, interview a minority applicant. My guess is that he just filled that role.[/quote]
That's interesting. I was wondering how on earth Oregon was going to get a minority candidate. If Pep already had a new job in hand, he probably didn't mind taking an interview for a job he knew he wasn't going to get.
Re: Pep to Indy? - jayasena - 01-18-2013
(01-18-2013, 05:20 PM)Yvonne link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=7422.msg57499#msg57499 date=1358554099]They have to, by Oregon law, interview a minority applicant. My guess is that he just filled that role.[/quote]
[quote author=Oasis link=topic=7422.msg57498#msg57498 date=1358553562]Given Pep's proclivity for the ordre profond and the slow-developing running play, I wonder why Oregon's flying circus would be interested. He doesn't seem much suited to their system. He's more a guy for Wisconsin.
That's interesting. I was wondering how on earth Oregon was going to get a minority candidate. If Pep already had a new job in hand, he probably didn't mind taking an interview for a job he knew he wasn't going to get.
[/quote]
Maybe Nike U. threw in enough cupcakes to make it worth his while to visit and interview.
Re: Pep to Indy? - Bruce Wang - 01-18-2013
The biggest loss here is Pep's recruiting prowess in the DC/Virginia area.
Re: Pep to Indy? - socalstanfan1 - 01-18-2013
(01-18-2013, 05:45 PM)Publius link Wrote:The biggest loss here is Pep's recruiting prowess in the DC/Virginia area.
Agreed, losing Pep as a recruiter will hurt. But, we survived the loss of recruiter-extraordinaire Willie Taggart, and the well-regarded recruiter Brian Polian, in part by replacing him with young, dynamic recruiters like Mike Sanford, and Derek Mason has taken over the Southeast region that Taggart used to work, and done quite well. I suspect the hiring of Koutalski as LB coach last year may have been, in part, to bring someone on staff with links to the Northeast. (Though, obviously, he does not fit my description of a young coach.)
I'm guessing at this point Stanford would be considered a plum spot for fast-risers in the coaching ranks, particularly since the housing issue seems to have been addressed. The school has everything else going for it: a recent run of success matched by only a few programs; relatively drama-free relations with the NCAA; high character kids who very rarely encounter problems with authorities; and a chance to live in the beauty of the Bay Area. Shaw should be able to have his pick of any number of assistant coaches from the college or NFL levels. I'm looking forward to seeing who he chooses.
Re: Pep to Indy? - DC - 01-18-2013
I've always suspected/conjectured that Greg Roman might be the true architect of our offense and that his successors are following the script without fully accounting for the change in personnel or understanding it as well as the originator. There were reports that Harbaugh had pushed OC Shaw aside and was using Roman as the mad scientist de facto OC, before bringing him to the 49ers. Maybe it was personality -- they do have opposite outward personalities -- rather than schematic, but who knows.
We had a very limited offense this year and succeeded mainly due to Hogan's extraordinary athleticism. Perhaps Shaw and Hamilton are just too conservative by nature. But why we can't have at least average outcomes from our WRs is a mystery. It may not be a bad thing to get some fresh blood and ideas.Â
The flip side to this conjecture though is that I'm sure Indy asked Andrew Luck about Hamilton. Maybe Andrew knows more than any coach and it doesn't matter to him, or alternatively he gave his stamp of approval to hire Hamilton.
Re: Pep to Indy? - Hey - 01-18-2013
There was a quote somewhere that the only person who stopped Michael Jordan was Dean Smith. This is how I felt in regards to Andrew Luck and Pep Hamilton/David Shaw. Hamilton was quoted recently as saying:
"I feel like and I think about it all the time that I probably cost Andrew Luck the Voldemort," he said, later adding that Stanford's conservative play-calling against San Jose State left that game tied late.
http://stanford.scout.com/2/1252821.html
And then this over-conservative offense was amplified at the end of the Fiesta Bowl last year (grrrrr).Â
That being said, ever since Hogan took over I've been a lot more satisfied with the offense. But I'm still happy for the change. Now I'm concerned about Luck again. Indianapolis played a completely different kind of offense this past season and I thought it was a success.
On a side note: the Athletic Director, Football Coach, Offensive Coordinator, Defensive Coordinator, and the Basketball Coach were all African-American. No big deal to this Stanford crowd, but still really cool to think about.
Re: Pep to Indy? - terry - 01-18-2013
Yeah, that over-conservative offense in the Fiesta Bowl only managed 590 yards and 38 points against a top-5 team. That really sucks, doesn't it?
:)
Re: Pep to Indy? - washingtonismoney - 01-18-2013
(01-18-2013, 08:55 PM)Big Brother link Wrote:There was a quote somewhere that the only person who stopped Michael Jordan was Dean Smith. This is how I felt in regards to Andrew Luck and Pep Hamilton/David Shaw. Hamilton was quoted recently as saying:
"I feel like and I think about it all the time that I probably cost Andrew Luck the Voldemort," he said, later adding that Stanford's conservative play-calling against San Jose State left that game tied late.
http://stanford.scout.com/2/1252821.html
And then this over-conservative offense was amplified at the end of the Fiesta Bowl last year (grrrrr).Â
Both of these points are silly:
1) Hamilton's job isn't a get-Heismans job. It's a winning job. That's the context of the quote.
2) The "conservative" offense wasn't terribly conservative against Oklahoma State. In fact, for most of it, it was quite aggressive. Only the final thirty seconds were conservative -- and it's a decision coaches like Harbaugh and Chip Kelly have made. If Hamilton/Shaw are overly conservative, a large percentage of the coaching profession is.
It's also hard to view the offense in 2011 as anything but dominant. If someone was stopping it, it sure as shit wasn't Hamilton.
Re: Pep to Indy? - washingtonismoney - 01-18-2013
(01-18-2013, 05:29 PM)somnambule link Wrote:Maybe Nike U. threw in enough cupcakes to make it worth his while to visit and interview.
It's been reported that they'd already interviewed a minority candidate before talking to Hamilton. No, apparently they liked him. Should've just showed him the Cardboard! That would've set them straight right away.
(Same goes for Frank Beamer, Chuck Pagano, et. al. Idiots, the lot of them, apparently.)
Re: Pep to Indy? - Bruce Wang - 01-19-2013
I'm predicting great success for Luck next season bc he has Pep as an OC. Not because of creative play calling. Because Pep will put in a West Coast offense and get out of the way. Arians preferred a vertical game. Luck has the arm. The Colts didn't have the offensive line. They couldn't buy enough time for Luck to throw deep. That's why Luck got sacked so much.
Re: Pep to Indy? - OutsiderFan - 01-19-2013
I think everyone is way over-thinking.
Schemes, game planning, and play calling are personnel-driven. Some may conclude this means Stanford's WRs were poor in 2012, so they weren't used. But I don't think success is realized by ruling out weaknesses so much as by emphasizing strengths. In the case of Stanford's 2012 offense, the strength was the TEs, RBs, and a pretty good OL. Therefore, Shaw and Hamilton implemented the offense we saw. Then when it became clear Hogan could add another dynamic to the offense, he was incorporated into it.
Absent the strong assets at TE, RB, and OL, it's entirely possible we would have seen a scheme that utilized WRs more. In other words, the WRs may not have been on of the best units in the conference, but if given more opportunities they surely would have been more productive.
It's David Shaw's offense. He'll make sure it is run the way he wants it run. I agree with the idea that losing Hamilton is a bigger hit to recruiting than it will ultimately be to coordinating the offense. Then again, Stanford has had very little problem replacing coaches lately, and still maintaining a high level of success.
Re: Pep to Indy? - Hey - 01-19-2013
WIM, youre right; it isnt the OCs job to win Voldemorts, just games. However, thats not my point. I realize Im nitpicking, but in 2010 most of our games were over early in the 3rd quarter. In 2011, it took until the 4th quarter before we started to pull away. We won a lot both seasons, but the play-calling in 2011 under Hamilton wasnt as dynamic as the play-calling under Roman in 2010 and it kept the games closer. It really didnt matter what offense we ran in 2011, we were clearly stronger and faster than our opponents and wore people down in the second half.
And I also realize that this is a contentious issue, but there other people who feel differently about the ending of the Fiesta Bowl. There is nothing wrong with being conservative at the end of a game, as many coaches are. There were other factors to consider, namely that Williamson was clearly not the same kicker after his groin injury and OSU was thrilled that we ran the clock out because they could only dream of stopping us.
Re: Pep to Indy? - washingtonismoney - 01-19-2013
(01-19-2013, 08:30 AM)Big Brother link Wrote:WIM, youre right; it isnt the OCs job to win Voldemorts, just games. However, thats not my point. I realize Im nitpicking, but in 2010 most of our games were over early in the 3rd quarter. In 2011, it took until the 4th quarter before we started to pull away. We won a lot both seasons, but the play-calling in 2011 under Hamilton wasnt as dynamic as the play-calling under Roman in 2010 and it kept the games closer.Â
Was the game not being over the offense's fault in 2011 (averaging 43.2 points vs. 2010's 40.3 points) or was it the defense's fault (averaging 21.9 points surrendered in 2011 vs. 2010's 17 points)? Moreover, you have a far too rosy a memory about 2010. The 2011 team never struggled with a team as poor as Arizona State (as the 2010 team did.) The 2011 team finished off SJSU, Duke, UCLA, Colorado, Washington State, UW and Oregon State by the fourth, as was appropriate. Perhaps the only game they should've finished off their opponent earlier in the early season was Arizona, but then again the team lost Skov, Fleener and Owusu midgame, so it's understandable. In the latter part of the season, the grind of the season plus the mounting injury list made it difficult to put away the 59ers and N.D.
A general pet peeve: complaining about playcalling and calling it uncreative is the most meaningless thing to me. No one ever offers a standard to judge it by behind Potter Stewart-esque "I know it when I see it." As a result people are far too results-oriented and too prejudicial. You might as well call bad playcalling doubleplusungood and good playcalling doubleplusgood.
EDIT: an addition re: playcalling. All we heard at the close of 2011 was that L.ane K.iffin was an amazing playcaller. Now he's a brobdingnagian idiot who needs to surrender the offensive coordinating part of his job. Tedford was once a great playcaller by reputation; now he's drawing unemployment checks from Sandy Barbour. "Great playcaller" is just noise. Creativity probably the same.
Re: Pep to Indy? - Hey - 01-19-2013
My exhibit B of conservative play-calling was Notre Dame this year. First and goal and they run the same play four times in a row against one of the best defensive lines in the nation. I don't understand. If we have the thickest playbook in the NCAA, why can't we be more creative?
I can empathize with your pet peeve about criticizing play-calling. I just think Hamilton was over-rated as an OC.Â
Re: Pep to Indy? - washingtonismoney - 01-19-2013
(01-19-2013, 09:21 AM)Big Brother link Wrote:My exhibit B of conservative play-calling was Northern Indiana Parochial College this year. First and goal and they run the same play four times in a row against one of the best defensive lines in the nation. I don't understand. If we have the thickest playbook in the NCAA, why can't we be more creative?
And you know what happens if Josh Nunes throws a pick in the endzone?
"Man, that was stupid. Letting Josh Nunes throw the ball when you could've run Stepfan Taylor, your best player? Stupid, awful playcalling."
Re: Pep to Indy? - yvonne - 01-19-2013
I once had dinner Dan Ferrigno, who had been the tight ends coach across the Bay. He remarked that he was going to be a much worse coach because he'd didn't have Tony Gonzales.Â
Sometimes, a good player can make a coach look better than he is just as a good scheme can make a player look better than he is.Â
Re: Pep to Indy? - Hey - 01-19-2013
Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe. I see conservative, you see smart. I see effective, you see risky. I have been a fan of Hamiltons ever since Hogan took over, can we agree on that?Â