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LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Printable Version

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Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - OutsiderFan - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 02:42 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=12143.msg118357#msg118357 date=1431723606]
I've always had a love-hate kind of view of the LSJUMB.  Love the fact it is given the freedom to express itself, but don't always like how that expression is manifested.  Making fun of UCLA handicapped parking scandal?  Awesome.  Making fun of the Irish Potato Famine?  Not so much. My assumption was the "buttoned down" bands would be more university managed, and as a result not have issues going off the rails with inappropriate commentary and hazing.

I was at the infamous "Irish Potato Famine" skit, and, while that aspect got a lot of bad press, the overall skit was much more about the fact that the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends's nickname "The Fighting Irish" and mascot (a Leprachaun looking to get into a bar fight) would, in any other context, be considered offensive.  The skit started with the line "The Irish, why must they fight".

BC
[/quote]

I was at that game too.  Agree a very reasonable message was lost in the tangent to the potato famine.  As for the game, I remember the 60 yd TD run by Anthony Bookman as the most memorable play.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Mick - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 09:26 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:And if Stanford ever imposes a "traditional band" on campus - as some here would like to see - then you will see a great Vanishing Act.


if they do, it will be six people....

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Mick - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 02:42 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=12143.msg118357#msg118357 date=1431723606]
I've always had a love-hate kind of view of the LSJUMB.  Love the fact it is given the freedom to express itself, but don't always like how that expression is manifested.  Making fun of UCLA handicapped parking scandal?  Awesome.  Making fun of the Irish Potato Famine?  Not so much. My assumption was the "buttoned down" bands would be more university managed, and as a result not have issues going off the rails with inappropriate commentary and hazing.

I was at the infamous "Irish Potato Famine" skit, and, while that aspect got a lot of bad press, the overall skit was much more about the fact that the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends's nickname "The Fighting Irish" and mascot (a Leprachaun looking to get into a bar fight) would, in any other context, be considered offensive.  The skit started with the line "The Irish, why must they fight".

BC
[/quote]

As a person of Irish descent, I say this with as much respect as I can muster.  UDFG fans don't have a sense of humor that allows them to appreciate subtle ironies.  Nor are they smart enough to appreciate them.  And they're so insecure that they take these as fighting words, a mortal offense as I were.

Bad/no sense of humor, stupid and insecure.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - TrumpCard - 05-15-2015

Very few people who actually attended that USB game were upset at the potato famine show because neither the concept of the show nor the formations were that offensive and because the audience couldn't actually hear the announcer's script.  It wasn't until copies of the script were distributed to the press that the outrage grew.  Frankly, the outrage was fair because the script was written in poor taste.  I can say, however, that the script was written by a just a couple of people after the concept and formations for the field show were already complete.  The rank and file band did not endorse or have any input into the script, and very few (probably less than 10) ever saw it before the show.  I happened to be one of the few who did see it (on the morning of the game), and I vividly remember that I was very unpleasantly surprised.  I actually talked with my section leader about the possibility of revising the script before the game to make it less offensive, but it was too late to do anything about it.  I think we might have been able to make the change before any damage was done, if not for the fact that we were not permitted to make changes after the Athletic Dept (who may not have even read the script) gave its rubber stamp. 

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Mick - 05-15-2015

I note with some interest that the band can appeal.  We'll see if they do that.  I'm wondering if they actually want to, I would imagine home games are much more fun.  As a penalty, not too bad.

The sentence from Golder:  "The university's objective is to ensure a safe and harassment-free environment while honoring the band's traditions and its unique, irreverent identity," Golder said. "We hope the band will use this outcome as a positive platform for further strengthening its culture and ensuring the band's vibrancy and good stewardship in the years ahead."

That's a little bit odd to me.  Seems like there's some inherent conflict.  I also wonder what will happen the first 2-3x the band decides to "poke fun" at the administration.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Rally - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 03:21 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=12143.msg118362#msg118362 date=1431726144]
[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=12143.msg118357#msg118357 date=1431723606]
I've always had a love-hate kind of view of the LSJUMB.  Love the fact it is given the freedom to express itself, but don't always like how that expression is manifested.  Making fun of UCLA handicapped parking scandal?  Awesome.  Making fun of the Irish Potato Famine?  Not so much. My assumption was the "buttoned down" bands would be more university managed, and as a result not have issues going off the rails with inappropriate commentary and hazing.

I was at the infamous "Irish Potato Famine" skit, and, while that aspect got a lot of bad press, the overall skit was much more about the fact that the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends's nickname "The Fighting Irish" and mascot (a Leprachaun looking to get into a bar fight) would, in any other context, be considered offensive.  The skit started with the line "The Irish, why must they fight".

BC
[/quote]


As a person of Irish descent, I say this with as much respect as I can muster.  UDFG fans don't have a sense of humor that allows them to appreciate subtle ironies.  Nor are they smart enough to appreciate them.  And they're so insecure that they take these as fighting words, a mortal offense as I were.

Bad/no sense of humor, stupid and insecure.
[/quote]
As the subject of usually mid-level attacks and prejudice in my youth, it is obvious that making fun of some ethnic groups has become generally acceptable (Polish, Irish, Italians, Germans, etc) while other groups have become generally offensive (Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Asians, etc.)  I remember the Potato Famine stunt and I was offended (my maternal ancestors came here fleeing the famine) but the general outrage was against the famine reference, not Irish.  Everyone knows Irish and Russians are drunks, Italians are peasant criminals, and Germans are beer drinking kraut eaters.  Did I leave anyone out? :)

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - TrumpCard - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 03:39 PM)ferrari link Wrote:As the subject of usually mid-level attacks and prejudice in my youth, it is obvious that making fun of some ethnic groups has become generally acceptable (Polish, Irish, Italians, Germans, etc) while other groups have become generally offensive (Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Asians, etc.)  I remember the Potato Famine stunt and I was offended (my maternal ancestors came here fleeing the famine) but the general outrage was against the famine reference, not Irish.  Everyone knows Irish and Russians are drunks, Italians are peasant criminals, and Germans are beer drinking kraut eaters.  Did I leave anyone out? :)

To echo BC, the show that the band created and voted to approve was not meant to poke fun at people of Irish decent much less make light of the potato famine.  The show was conceived to make fun of the USB mascot.  I was there at the planning session.  As BC said, the concept that we voted to approve was "The Irish, why must they fight."  The script took the concept that the band created/approved and went on a very unfortunate tangent.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Rally - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 03:47 PM)TrumpCard link Wrote:[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12143.msg118372#msg118372 date=1431729571]
As the subject of usually mid-level attacks and prejudice in my youth, it is obvious that making fun of some ethnic groups has become generally acceptable (Polish, Irish, Italians, Germans, etc) while other groups have become generally offensive (Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Asians, etc.)  I remember the Potato Famine stunt and I was offended (my maternal ancestors came here fleeing the famine) but the general outrage was against the famine reference, not Irish.  Everyone knows Irish and Russians are drunks, Italians are peasant criminals, and Germans are beer drinking kraut eaters.  Did I leave anyone out? :)

To echo BC, the show that the band created and voted to approve was not meant to poke fun at people of Irish decent much less make light of the potato famine.  The show was conceived to make fun of the USB mascot.  I was there at the planning session.  As BC said, the concept that we voted to approve was "The Irish, why must they fight."  The script took the concept that the band created/approved and went on a very unfortunate tangent.
[/quote]

I know now, but didn't at the time.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Farm93 - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 10:47 AM)ferrari link Wrote:And if the ban decides yes, we are bad so we are not going to perform anywhere for a year?  Will the University import a band?  Hire pros? Hmmm.
Ferrari - You are old enough to remember other LSJUMB suspensions.

For football - It will be a return of the frisbee dogs!  Not sure the current popular music has an equivalent to "Who let the dogs out!", but I am sure we would all learn together.  When the doggie thing got a bit tired, the AD resorted to club sport demonstrations.  Ultimate? Rugby? Cricket (with a safer ball)?  Come on down!!  Sure it would be more of the same next time the band can't play at a home game.

For indoor sports - The tried a true has always been... Stanford dance clubs, youth basketball, youth dance, youth martial arts and contests for Stanford students to win stuff.  In recent seasons the band's ability to play has been greatly reduced by the promotional games, so it would be OK.  Besides, the instruments are too loud in an empty arena, so now is a good time to take a year or two off.

It is not as if the AD has not been down this road before.  FWIW - Often those exhibitions were wildly popular at least until the third or fourth week of dog shows or youth hoops.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Treebound - 05-15-2015

As an Alum and now as a father of an incoming freshman that is excited to "Come Join the Band,"  I really hope they appeal.  My son is a very strong musician and he is excited about joining both the LSJUMB and the Symphony.  He's not going to be thrilled about this news. 

This is the University taking things too far.  Perhaps a little bit of a rally cry by some of you thoughtful Band Alums will help our administration find a middle ground.  Anybody calling for a goose stepping traditional band should know that it will turn this enthusiastic group into a 10 person ensemble.   

As for the Irish...."Why do they fight?"  It was a great and ironic message that was totally lost on the Fighting Kekua's.  How boorish can one be?

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Rally - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 04:05 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:[quote author=ferrari link=topic=12143.msg118331#msg118331 date=1431712063]
And if the ban decides yes, we are bad so we are not going to perform anywhere for a year?  Will the University import a band?  Hire pros? Hmmm.
Ferrari - You are old enough to remember other LSJUMB suspensions.

For football - It will be a return of the frisbee dogs!  Not sure the current popular music has an equivalent to "Who let the dogs out!", but I am sure we would all learn together.  When the doggie thing got a bit tired, the AD resorted to club sport demonstrations.  Ultimate? Rugby? Cricket (with a safer ball)?  Come on down!!  Sure it would be more of the same next time the band can't play at a home game.

For indoor sports - The tried a true has always been... Stanford dance clubs, youth basketball, youth dance, youth martial arts and contests for Stanford students to win stuff.  In recent seasons the band's ability to play has been greatly reduced by the promotional games, so it would be OK.  Besides, the instruments are too loud in an empty arena, so now is a good time to take a year or two off.

It is not as if the AD has not been down this road before.  FWIW - Often those exhibitions were wildly popular at least until the third or fourth week of dog shows or youth hoops.
[/quote]

I do remember, and didn't like them, even though I am a certified dog lover.  I don't miss halftime, just All Right Now :). And a recording isn't gonna cut it.  Of course I also miss the cannon and big game bonfire, but nobody cares :)

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - winflop - 05-15-2015

The main issue I have is that it appears the biggest bad things happened in 2011-12 and it's acknowledged that the band has made major changes and progress since.  So what justifies this punishment?

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - CowboyIndian - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 02:00 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:it seems a bit too putative....

No, it really happened.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - BostonCard - 05-15-2015

(05-15-2015, 06:43 PM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=12143.msg118357#msg118357 date=1431723606]
it seems a bit too putative....

No, it really happened.
[/quote]

Big juicy fastball, right down the middle.

BC

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - CornFed - 05-15-2015

And CI delivered a strong shot up the middle, scoring the winning run!

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Viking_Guy - 05-15-2015

One thing in this story:  one of the investigative bodies was the Stanford Title IX office.  In my opinion only, I think this represents an effort by Stanford to get out ahead of an oncoming wave of Title IX actions against American universities, especially by taking down a fairly soft target.  (Think "showing progress" on Title IX issues akin to a lot of the settlements under ADA).

Other organizations on campus that probably do have a worse behavioral record on those issues also have a lot more influential supporters in their corners, and would present a bigger challenge to the Stanford brand than putting it to "that crazy drunk band."

And one of the biggest things about the Irish halftime show that has always rankled: that people in the Athletic Department had seen and approved the halftime show.  And then threw the band under the bus when the controversy blew up.

VG


The times they are a changin' - JohnR34231 - 05-16-2015

For better or worse, a lot of the behavior that was once brushed aside as "college kids will be college kids" is now considered a serious offense.

Doubt if "Animal House" could get made today.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - OutsiderFan - 05-16-2015

It does seem some sort of petition from former band members, fans, and students (many athletes) would go a long way toward making the administration realize they have overreacted a bit, and possibly re-consider the severity of the initial proposed sanction.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - CTcard - 05-16-2015

(05-15-2015, 02:03 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Having marched in two bands ...

but I was cool once ...

Those two statements cannot both be true.

Re: LSJUMB won't be going to away games for a year - Leftcoast - 05-16-2015

Quote:In my opinion only, I think this represents an effort by Stanford to get out ahead of an oncoming wave of Title IX actions against American universities, especially by taking down a fairly soft target.  (Think "showing progress" on Title IX issues akin to a lot of the settlements under ADA).

The Title IX office at Stanford may be more active than us old timers know.  Remember they were also responsible for a series of Fraternity investigations including the suspension of housing privileges for SAE in December.

Here's the Daily article.  For a slice of the campus debate over Title IX read the comments section that follows - it's worth the time. (I can't believe I said that - newspaper comment sections usually make me want to resign from humanity, take a bath and use extra soap.)  The discussion gives more details on the event and centers on free speech vs sexism.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2014/12/12/sae-housing-suspended-for-two-years-due-to-sexual-harassment-concerns/