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CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Printable Version

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Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - GoodGrief - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 10:04 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:[quote author=eric link=topic=16303.msg183216#msg183216 date=1482253444]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=16303.msg183197#msg183197 date=1482249759]
This feels like someone stole the cranberry sauce at Christmas dinner.  :-[  I understand his decision.  He's smart and rational.  Good luck CMAC.  Thanks for the memories.

ah, the cranberry sauce from my youth, wish someone had stolen it.....

[Image: 1521941157391197255.jpg]
[/quote]

That is the stuff of nightmares. The sole reason I learned to make it from scratch.
[/quote]

ahh, thread drift here we come. Because this was the only cranberry sauce I ever knew growing up, it wasn't until I organized the Soto Thanksgiving dinner that I learned that cranberry sauce doesn't normally come in slices.

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - GoodGrief - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 10:04 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:[quote author=eric link=topic=16303.msg183216#msg183216 date=1482253444]
[quote author=martyup link=topic=16303.msg183197#msg183197 date=1482249759]
This feels like someone stole the cranberry sauce at Christmas dinner.  :-[  I understand his decision.  He's smart and rational.  Good luck CMAC.  Thanks for the memories.

ah, the cranberry sauce from my youth, wish someone had stolen it.....

[Image: 1521941157391197255.jpg]
[/quote]

That is the stuff of nightmares. The sole reason I learned to make it from scratch.
[/quote]

ahh, thread drift here we come. Because this was the only cranberry sauce I ever knew growing up, it wasn't until I organized the Soto Thanksgiving dinner that I learned that cranberry sauce doesn't normally come in slices.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - martyup - 12-20-2016

My wife makes the best cranberry sauce from scratch.  Secret ingredient . . . orange peel zest.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - martyup - 12-20-2016

My wife makes the best cranberry sauce from scratch.  Secret ingredient . . . orange peel zest.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 12:28 PM)martyup link Wrote:My wife makes the best cranberry sauce from scratch.  Secret ingredient . . . orange peel zest.

I'm guessing your wife makes the same type my wife makes...

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 12:28 PM)martyup link Wrote:My wife makes the best cranberry sauce from scratch.  Secret ingredient . . . orange peel zest.

I'm guessing your wife makes the same type my wife makes...

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - needle - 12-20-2016

Quote: The difference is the willingness to criticize that decision based on numerous factors, including:  (a) the relative conviction of folks regarding whether or not CMac is doing 'the right thing,' (b) the sense of loyalty folks have to CMac for all he has done for Stanford, © the relative importance people place on being a team member, (d) the relative importance people put on loyalty to coaches and teammates, (e) the belief that football grinds you up and chews you out, so get what you can when you can, (f) the importance of fans in this entire consideration, (g) the importance of the game(s) being bailed on, etc. etc.

We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - needle - 12-20-2016

Quote: The difference is the willingness to criticize that decision based on numerous factors, including:  (a) the relative conviction of folks regarding whether or not CMac is doing 'the right thing,' (b) the sense of loyalty folks have to CMac for all he has done for Stanford, © the relative importance people place on being a team member, (d) the relative importance people put on loyalty to coaches and teammates, (e) the belief that football grinds you up and chews you out, so get what you can when you can, (f) the importance of fans in this entire consideration, (g) the importance of the game(s) being bailed on, etc. etc.

We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 09:13 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:Mick-
It is clear that you and I view this differently. Yes I can conceive of it, they do it to coaches, why wouldn't they do it to other players. I am not trying to change your mind, I just do not get this indignation from the fans.


One other thought...if you look at the rosters of non-revenue sports, you will often see a marked decline in seniors.  Take the Stanford men's VB roster.  Six frosh, five sophs, three juniors, three redshirt juniors, one redshirt senior.  That's fairly typical, at least as I understand it.  As players get closer to graduation, they drop off the team, either due to injuries, lack of playing time, lack of interest.  But no one pays to watch them, and no one cares if someone quits.

Look, I've been a big fan of CMAC's over the years, I genuinely hope he does great.  I just thinking he made the wrong, purely selfish decision here.

Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 09:13 AM)SUBuddha link Wrote:Mick-
It is clear that you and I view this differently. Yes I can conceive of it, they do it to coaches, why wouldn't they do it to other players. I am not trying to change your mind, I just do not get this indignation from the fans.


One other thought...if you look at the rosters of non-revenue sports, you will often see a marked decline in seniors.  Take the Stanford men's VB roster.  Six frosh, five sophs, three juniors, three redshirt juniors, one redshirt senior.  That's fairly typical, at least as I understand it.  As players get closer to graduation, they drop off the team, either due to injuries, lack of playing time, lack of interest.  But no one pays to watch them, and no one cares if someone quits.

Look, I've been a big fan of CMAC's over the years, I genuinely hope he does great.  I just thinking he made the wrong, purely selfish decision here.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 12:34 PM)needle link Wrote:
Quote: The difference is the willingness to criticize that decision based on numerous factors, including:  (a) the relative conviction of folks regarding whether or not CMac is doing 'the right thing,' (b) the sense of loyalty folks have to CMac for all he has done for Stanford, © the relative importance people place on being a team member, (d) the relative importance people put on loyalty to coaches and teammates, (e) the belief that football grinds you up and chews you out, so get what you can when you can, (f) the importance of fans in this entire consideration, (g) the importance of the game(s) being bailed on, etc. etc.

We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?


I would be shocked if they had anything other than uniform public support.  But I'd be very interested in their individual opinions...

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 12:34 PM)needle link Wrote:
Quote: The difference is the willingness to criticize that decision based on numerous factors, including:  (a) the relative conviction of folks regarding whether or not CMac is doing 'the right thing,' (b) the sense of loyalty folks have to CMac for all he has done for Stanford, © the relative importance people place on being a team member, (d) the relative importance people put on loyalty to coaches and teammates, (e) the belief that football grinds you up and chews you out, so get what you can when you can, (f) the importance of fans in this entire consideration, (g) the importance of the game(s) being bailed on, etc. etc.

We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?


I would be shocked if they had anything other than uniform public support.  But I'd be very interested in their individual opinions...

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - fullmetal - 12-20-2016

No group of 85+ young men would ever really be of one mind, but for the ones whose opinions count most (two-deep, significant contributors), how can we think that they would begrudge CMac the chance to maximize his draft chances?  They know better than we do the score that is the NFL and the draft...it's unforgiving, and if CMac is indeed less than 100%, he would do well to hide that for as long as possible.

To skip your senior season for the draft but risk getting hurt in a final, fifth-tier bowl game is just foolish.  If you're going to skip your senior season for the draft, you commit to maximizing your draft chances from the moment you decide to leave early. 

I wish he'd play, but he's absolutely justified and probably very wise to step aside.  We talk about the 40-year decision a lot on this board--surely we can't fault CMac for doing the same in this instance.  And it's not like he's abandoning his Stanford allegiance.

I get the team thing, I get the program thing...but since I'm part of neither group, I can't justify my outrage on their behalf when those groups would have already had this conversation with CMac. 

Alea iacta est.  Long live Bryce Love.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - fullmetal - 12-20-2016

No group of 85+ young men would ever really be of one mind, but for the ones whose opinions count most (two-deep, significant contributors), how can we think that they would begrudge CMac the chance to maximize his draft chances?  They know better than we do the score that is the NFL and the draft...it's unforgiving, and if CMac is indeed less than 100%, he would do well to hide that for as long as possible.

To skip your senior season for the draft but risk getting hurt in a final, fifth-tier bowl game is just foolish.  If you're going to skip your senior season for the draft, you commit to maximizing your draft chances from the moment you decide to leave early. 

I wish he'd play, but he's absolutely justified and probably very wise to step aside.  We talk about the 40-year decision a lot on this board--surely we can't fault CMac for doing the same in this instance.  And it's not like he's abandoning his Stanford allegiance.

I get the team thing, I get the program thing...but since I'm part of neither group, I can't justify my outrage on their behalf when those groups would have already had this conversation with CMac. 

Alea iacta est.  Long live Bryce Love.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

Quote:We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?

I don't think you can say that with confidence. True, the handful of current players who have spoken up, have generally made positive remarks about support CM, but some were more vague general support and avoided endorsing what he's done by saying things like "CM has been a great teammate and I love him like a brother". But what about the 70 players who haven't posted on social media?

And what about the former players who have been in the shoes of a Stanford football player and made statements that clearly showed disappointment? I bet their closer to providing the unvarnished opinion of what a Stanford teammate would think. And the sentiments of his coach, who IS part of team, that weren't exactly a ringing endorsement. I would say at best the evidence is mixed and we can only speculate at what is not being said by teammates who, you know, being good teammates by not airing their dirty laundry.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

Quote:We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?

I don't think you can say that with confidence. True, the handful of current players who have spoken up, have generally made positive remarks about support CM, but some were more vague general support and avoided endorsing what he's done by saying things like "CM has been a great teammate and I love him like a brother". But what about the 70 players who haven't posted on social media?

And what about the former players who have been in the shoes of a Stanford football player and made statements that clearly showed disappointment? I bet their closer to providing the unvarnished opinion of what a Stanford teammate would think. And the sentiments of his coach, who IS part of team, that weren't exactly a ringing endorsement. I would say at best the evidence is mixed and we can only speculate at what is not being said by teammates who, you know, being good teammates by not airing their dirty laundry.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

Quote:To skip your senior season for the draft but risk getting hurt in a final, fifth-tier bowl game is just foolish.  If you're going to skip your senior season for the draft, you commit to maximizing your draft chances from the moment you decide to leave early. 

So he was a fool to play against Rice? Clearly a meaningless game in your paradigm. And Cal, Oregon, OSU... Which games was he smart to play in this year?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

Quote:To skip your senior season for the draft but risk getting hurt in a final, fifth-tier bowl game is just foolish.  If you're going to skip your senior season for the draft, you commit to maximizing your draft chances from the moment you decide to leave early. 

So he was a fool to play against Rice? Clearly a meaningless game in your paradigm. And Cal, Oregon, OSU... Which games was he smart to play in this year?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - fullmetal - 12-20-2016

Another tack:

I think a lot of the disappointment or lack of enthusiasm from the staff/alumni might stem from their realization that this could be the beginning of the end of Stanford as a bastion of athletic ideals, untainted by the effects of professional money.  IIRC, CMac is the first Stanford player to opt out of a bowl for professional purposes, and while this happens at other schools, perhaps no one saw it coming from the golden boy of Stanford football.

But...it is a wise, long-term decision.  And such decisions could bring Stanford Football down the path toward being just another football factory.  It is a difficult line to walk.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - fullmetal - 12-20-2016

Another tack:

I think a lot of the disappointment or lack of enthusiasm from the staff/alumni might stem from their realization that this could be the beginning of the end of Stanford as a bastion of athletic ideals, untainted by the effects of professional money.  IIRC, CMac is the first Stanford player to opt out of a bowl for professional purposes, and while this happens at other schools, perhaps no one saw it coming from the golden boy of Stanford football.

But...it is a wise, long-term decision.  And such decisions could bring Stanford Football down the path toward being just another football factory.  It is a difficult line to walk.