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CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Printable Version

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Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

For those keeping track at home, Skip Balyless supports players bailing on owl games. What side of history do you want to be on?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-20-2016

For those keeping track at home, Skip Balyless supports players bailing on owl games. What side of history do you want to be on?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - dabigv13 - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:02 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:For those keeping track at home, Skip Balyless supports players bailing on owl games. What side of history do you want to be on?

upvote

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - dabigv13 - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:02 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:For those keeping track at home, Skip Balyless supports players bailing on owl games. What side of history do you want to be on?

upvote

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - OutsiderFan - 12-20-2016

The unspoken truth in this situation:

Whether it's a player quitting on his team to remove a possible risk that could take something from his future, or it's fans bitching that the player they most want to see play won't be, everyone is way too damn selfish. 




Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - OutsiderFan - 12-20-2016

The unspoken truth in this situation:

Whether it's a player quitting on his team to remove a possible risk that could take something from his future, or it's fans bitching that the player they most want to see play won't be, everyone is way too damn selfish. 




Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Goose - 12-20-2016

[quote author=76lsjumb
I'm not sure I understand why everyone is spending so much time coming up with other reasons to explain the decision...unless you think CMAC is lying about why he did it.  He himself said that he did it so he could concentrate on preparing for the draft.  He didn't say he was doing it so Love could get more touches or that it was better to degrade our chances to win this game in order to increase the chances to win more games next season when he wasn't here.

As for "Next Man Up trumping sentiment," my feeling is that "taking one for the team" trumps "Next Man Up."  Obviously, I'm a fan and not a teammate, but, as a fan, I will always admire the "taking one for the team" guy more than the guy who isn't, and I'm still skeptical that there would be unanimous support for a team captain who walks in and says, essentially, "I hope you guys do well, but I'm outta here."
[/quote]
Hi LSJUMB,
    I agree that CMac said he was sitting out to prepare for the draft. That does not preclude the possibility that he said this in response to a "suggestion" that since he wasn't staying, he should go now. As far as "Taking one for the team", there is more than one way to do that. The team captain has already said he is out of here. We are discussing when, and is it appropriate that it be now. I am saying that I don't know all the parameters. Is Shaw happy, sad, or just accepting? He isn't saying. The team so far has said it is ok with them. I don't fault him, because there is no good way to leave. We all left Stanford with attachments that were not going to endure our departure. It was necessary to go forward, as it is for CMac.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Goose - 12-20-2016

[quote author=76lsjumb
I'm not sure I understand why everyone is spending so much time coming up with other reasons to explain the decision...unless you think CMAC is lying about why he did it.  He himself said that he did it so he could concentrate on preparing for the draft.  He didn't say he was doing it so Love could get more touches or that it was better to degrade our chances to win this game in order to increase the chances to win more games next season when he wasn't here.

As for "Next Man Up trumping sentiment," my feeling is that "taking one for the team" trumps "Next Man Up."  Obviously, I'm a fan and not a teammate, but, as a fan, I will always admire the "taking one for the team" guy more than the guy who isn't, and I'm still skeptical that there would be unanimous support for a team captain who walks in and says, essentially, "I hope you guys do well, but I'm outta here."
[/quote]
Hi LSJUMB,
    I agree that CMac said he was sitting out to prepare for the draft. That does not preclude the possibility that he said this in response to a "suggestion" that since he wasn't staying, he should go now. As far as "Taking one for the team", there is more than one way to do that. The team captain has already said he is out of here. We are discussing when, and is it appropriate that it be now. I am saying that I don't know all the parameters. Is Shaw happy, sad, or just accepting? He isn't saying. The team so far has said it is ok with them. I don't fault him, because there is no good way to leave. We all left Stanford with attachments that were not going to endure our departure. It was necessary to go forward, as it is for CMac.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:02 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:For those keeping track at home, Skip Balyless supports players bailing on owl games. What side of history do you want to be on?

Now I know I'm right.  Whatever side of history Skip Witless is on, I want to be on the other one.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 08:02 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:For those keeping track at home, Skip Balyless supports players bailing on owl games. What side of history do you want to be on?

Now I know I'm right.  Whatever side of history Skip Witless is on, I want to be on the other one.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 09:44 PM)Goose link Wrote:Is Shaw happy, sad, or just accepting?

I think you can read into a lot about how Shaw feels about this by what he DIDN'T say.  He didn't say he supports the decision - he said he understands it.  He didn't say he agrees with it either.

My guess is we will never know how Shaw, most of the coaches, or most of the players felt.  And those we do hear from will be long gone from Stanford by the time we do.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - winflop - 12-20-2016

(12-20-2016, 09:44 PM)Goose link Wrote:Is Shaw happy, sad, or just accepting?

I think you can read into a lot about how Shaw feels about this by what he DIDN'T say.  He didn't say he supports the decision - he said he understands it.  He didn't say he agrees with it either.

My guess is we will never know how Shaw, most of the coaches, or most of the players felt.  And those we do hear from will be long gone from Stanford by the time we do.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-21-2016

(12-20-2016, 12:34 PM)needle link Wrote:
Quote: The difference is the willingness to criticize that decision based on numerous factors, including:  (a) the relative conviction of folks regarding whether or not CMac is doing 'the right thing,' (b) the sense of loyalty folks have to CMac for all he has done for Stanford, © the relative importance people place on being a team member, (d) the relative importance people put on loyalty to coaches and teammates, (e) the belief that football grinds you up and chews you out, so get what you can when you can, (f) the importance of fans in this entire consideration, (g) the importance of the game(s) being bailed on, etc. etc.

We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?

if his teammates supported him wouldn't every other potential draft pick have quit wit him?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-21-2016

(12-20-2016, 12:34 PM)needle link Wrote:
Quote: The difference is the willingness to criticize that decision based on numerous factors, including:  (a) the relative conviction of folks regarding whether or not CMac is doing 'the right thing,' (b) the sense of loyalty folks have to CMac for all he has done for Stanford, © the relative importance people place on being a team member, (d) the relative importance people put on loyalty to coaches and teammates, (e) the belief that football grinds you up and chews you out, so get what you can when you can, (f) the importance of fans in this entire consideration, (g) the importance of the game(s) being bailed on, etc. etc.

We're just fans. If his teammates are good with the decision--and all the evidence suggests they are--how can anyone seriously hold a grudge against C-Mac?

if his teammates supported him wouldn't every other potential draft pick have quit wit him?

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-21-2016

(12-20-2016, 03:27 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:[quote author=JPRI link=topic=16303.msg183251#msg183251 date=1482268828]
Yeah, when Bill Walsh led us to the Sun Bowl in 1977 he was treated like a conquering hero. Now it is a "meaningless" game.
Interesting.
They are all less meaningful now.  The folks at ESPN will try to deny reality, but reality is very clear at this point. 
Back in that day most teams were rarely on TV during the regular season.  A bowl game was a real chance to showcase the school, the program, etc.
Back in the day very few teams actually got into bowl games.  Now teams with a 5-7 record, and a decent APR ;), will get into some bowl or other.
In many cases coaches jump ship prior to a bowl game to join their new programs.  That used to be rare, now it happens every season.  This is not really much different.

Football is a business.  CMAC left his unpaid internship early because he is likely set to get a sweet paid position with a different employer.  Coaches leave all of the time even though they have contracts and a salary.  Really hate that the unpaid students keep getting held to a different standard.
[/quote]


I'm confused.  I didn't realize the McCaffrey family was paying full freight tuition, room and board, training table, coaching salaries etc.  I actually thought McCaffrey was on a football scholarship, that he is paying nothing out of pocket.  I didn't realize it was an unpaid internship.

And let me also point out that if it weren't for his football skills, his high school 3.35 GPA -- and I'm just WAGging it here -- may not have been sufficient to get him into Stanford, a school and degree from which he will receive opportunities literally throughout his life that he couldn't touch had he gone to college in Fort Collins or Boulder.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-21-2016

(12-20-2016, 03:27 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:[quote author=JPRI link=topic=16303.msg183251#msg183251 date=1482268828]
Yeah, when Bill Walsh led us to the Sun Bowl in 1977 he was treated like a conquering hero. Now it is a "meaningless" game.
Interesting.
They are all less meaningful now.  The folks at ESPN will try to deny reality, but reality is very clear at this point. 
Back in that day most teams were rarely on TV during the regular season.  A bowl game was a real chance to showcase the school, the program, etc.
Back in the day very few teams actually got into bowl games.  Now teams with a 5-7 record, and a decent APR ;), will get into some bowl or other.
In many cases coaches jump ship prior to a bowl game to join their new programs.  That used to be rare, now it happens every season.  This is not really much different.

Football is a business.  CMAC left his unpaid internship early because he is likely set to get a sweet paid position with a different employer.  Coaches leave all of the time even though they have contracts and a salary.  Really hate that the unpaid students keep getting held to a different standard.
[/quote]


I'm confused.  I didn't realize the McCaffrey family was paying full freight tuition, room and board, training table, coaching salaries etc.  I actually thought McCaffrey was on a football scholarship, that he is paying nothing out of pocket.  I didn't realize it was an unpaid internship.

And let me also point out that if it weren't for his football skills, his high school 3.35 GPA -- and I'm just WAGging it here -- may not have been sufficient to get him into Stanford, a school and degree from which he will receive opportunities literally throughout his life that he couldn't touch had he gone to college in Fort Collins or Boulder.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-21-2016

(12-20-2016, 05:46 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=16303.msg183257#msg183257 date=1482275108]
Respectfully, fullmetal, I think you're way off base in believing that the team is fine with this decision.  They are good teammates so they are keeping their disgruntlement in-house, but really, it's hard to see how anyone who has played competitive team sports would not have a problem with this.  They might understand it - heck, I think most of us "get" the thinking behind Christian looking out for his own financial best interest - but like it or agree with it?  That is an entirely different matter.

Ok, so the team is mad because there's no evidence that they're mad...and of course if there were, then they'd be mad.  You're telling me that there is zero possibility that the team is largely supporting CMac...c'mon, really?  He's carried the team through much of the last two seasons--surely they're not going to shun him forever because of a Sun Bowl.  So in absence of mutinous evidence, maybe we should all just agree to leave the team's sentiments out of it. (Even though there are tweets from players saying that the whole team is supportive--guess you don't think we can believe those Pollyannas, huh? :))


(12-20-2016, 05:21 PM)SamAtoms1980 link Wrote:Sun Bowl is NOT a fifth-tier bowl game, if the playoff and NY6 are tier one, that puts the Sun Bowl in the second, the third tier at the very lowest.  Fifth-tier bowl games are more like the one going on right now between WKU and Memphis

I meant literally a fifth-tier bowl: Rose, Alamo, Holiday, Foster, Sun.  If you include the CFP, Stanford was picked sixth, but I wasn't going to be that uncharitable.  Wasn't a knock on the quality of the teams playing.

Back to my original point--CMac played when the team stood to benefit from the win.  A Sun Bowl win doesn't advance them anywhere or improve their chances of getting a better postseason game.  I think he'd have been justified in skipping the Rose, though I would be tremendously disappointed at that business decision.  Again, he's committed to forgoing his senior season--no small sacrifice--and if he's going to do that, he may as well commit whole-hog to maximizing his draft potential.
[/quote]

Good point.  It's not like there are Texas high school football players and coaches watching the Sun Bowl.  We certainly don't need to recruit in Texas, so there's that.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-21-2016

(12-20-2016, 05:46 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=16303.msg183257#msg183257 date=1482275108]
Respectfully, fullmetal, I think you're way off base in believing that the team is fine with this decision.  They are good teammates so they are keeping their disgruntlement in-house, but really, it's hard to see how anyone who has played competitive team sports would not have a problem with this.  They might understand it - heck, I think most of us "get" the thinking behind Christian looking out for his own financial best interest - but like it or agree with it?  That is an entirely different matter.

Ok, so the team is mad because there's no evidence that they're mad...and of course if there were, then they'd be mad.  You're telling me that there is zero possibility that the team is largely supporting CMac...c'mon, really?  He's carried the team through much of the last two seasons--surely they're not going to shun him forever because of a Sun Bowl.  So in absence of mutinous evidence, maybe we should all just agree to leave the team's sentiments out of it. (Even though there are tweets from players saying that the whole team is supportive--guess you don't think we can believe those Pollyannas, huh? :))


(12-20-2016, 05:21 PM)SamAtoms1980 link Wrote:Sun Bowl is NOT a fifth-tier bowl game, if the playoff and NY6 are tier one, that puts the Sun Bowl in the second, the third tier at the very lowest.  Fifth-tier bowl games are more like the one going on right now between WKU and Memphis

I meant literally a fifth-tier bowl: Rose, Alamo, Holiday, Foster, Sun.  If you include the CFP, Stanford was picked sixth, but I wasn't going to be that uncharitable.  Wasn't a knock on the quality of the teams playing.

Back to my original point--CMac played when the team stood to benefit from the win.  A Sun Bowl win doesn't advance them anywhere or improve their chances of getting a better postseason game.  I think he'd have been justified in skipping the Rose, though I would be tremendously disappointed at that business decision.  Again, he's committed to forgoing his senior season--no small sacrifice--and if he's going to do that, he may as well commit whole-hog to maximizing his draft potential.
[/quote]

Good point.  It's not like there are Texas high school football players and coaches watching the Sun Bowl.  We certainly don't need to recruit in Texas, so there's that.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-21-2016

(12-19-2016, 06:06 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:I think I read that CM had $5M insurance for an injury that resulted in him not being drafted. $3M if injury significantly reduced his draft position. Dont remember where I read it so maybe I am mis-remembering or am flat out wrong.
You are correct. He has a $5M policy for complete disability, and a $3M policy for loss of value if injury causes him to be drafted later than 40th overall.

Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-21-2016

(12-19-2016, 06:06 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:I think I read that CM had $5M insurance for an injury that resulted in him not being drafted. $3M if injury significantly reduced his draft position. Dont remember where I read it so maybe I am mis-remembering or am flat out wrong.
You are correct. He has a $5M policy for complete disability, and a $3M policy for loss of value if injury causes him to be drafted later than 40th overall.