The CardBoard
Stanford - ND discussion - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Stanford - ND discussion (/thread-10765.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Close game record - Hulk01 - 11-24-2015

Nick Saban, 2010-15, games decided by seven or fewer points:

5 wins, 7 losses: 42%.

Thank God we got Shaw instead of Saban.


Re: Stanford - ND discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-24-2015

There are few boards as entertaining as ND Nation during a game they are losing.  They are manic depressives on steroids on that site.  When Weiss and Willingham were there, that board was "can't miss" stuff.  Not so much fun as an outsider when ND is winning.

So looks like Ronnie Harris is out and Holder is in.  Pretty tough to judge the performance of Murphy and Alexander last week given the soft coverage on Ca.l receivers last week was the clear game plan, but I've generally been impressed with Holder, and Murphy hasn't been terrible.  That said, I'd really like to see what Alexander can do in tighter coverage schemes, because he seems a better athlete than Murphy. 

Well, everyone agrees this game is all about Hogan, so Harris being out probably isn't determinative.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - NDIrish - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 12:37 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:There are few boards as entertaining as ND Nation during a game they are losing.  They are manic depressives on steroids on that site.  When Weiss and Willingham were there, that board was "can't miss" stuff.  Not so much fun as an outsider when ND is winning.

So looks like Ronnie Harris is out and Holder is in.  Pretty tough to judge the performance of Murphy and Alexander last week given the soft coverage on Ca.l receivers last week was the clear game plan, but I've generally been impressed with Holder, and Murphy hasn't been terrible.  That said, I'd really like to see what Alexander can do in tighter coverage schemes, because he seems a better athlete than Murphy. 

Well, everyone agrees this game is all about Hogan, so Harris being out probably isn't determinative.

I suppose this is true with most universities, but there are a bunch of cry babies when they lose.  People should be happy if you can average 9 wins a  year in college football, it gives you a chance to make a run every few years.  "Dynasties" are few and far in between and it is ridiculous to fire a coach because they can't build one.  I start every year with a positive attitude going into ND boards, but by mid season i am mostly done with them.  To many sofa coaches who don't understand the game.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - NDIrish - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 12:10 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:I agree with the ND fan boards about one thing--Brian Kelly is not the best coach out there.  All of America pokes fun at Kelly's immature behavior and his apparent complicity with the scandals that keep leaking out once every season or so.  I will always have to root against ND when they play Stanford, but I find it hard to root for ND outside of the rivalry because I just can't respect the program.  I'd rather root for current cellar-dweller Texas because I respect Charlie Strong's ethics and his process.

Anyway, I do appreciate the SoS bump that ND provides Stanford ;)

i was debating whether or not to go into details of these "scandals" but i think i will not, not hear to change opinions, just to discuss football and the game, but i will say that there are alot of facts missing from peoples opinions.  And i dont think any coach can control every action of every player on the team, you can only control the consequences.  And i think largely kids have been suspended/removed for poor choices, much more than a large percentage of the other schools out there.

Right now i appreciate the SOS bump too.. gonna be good for whichever team wins!

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - Hulk01 - 11-24-2015

Recruiting has improved significantly in the last two years, and even more vis a vis Harbs.

We are winning more head to heads against top ten programs than we did under Harbaugh--and more two years ago than the year before, more last year than the year before, and more this year to date.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - Spiny_Norman - 11-24-2015

NDIrish, you will note that your classification on the CardBoard has been upgraded from Honorable Heathen to Distinguished Foreigner based on your activity here.  Well done.

What are your thoughts about ending the Michigan-ND series?  Seems to be a lost opportunity for college football and its fans.  Besides the fact that they have played some really exciting, entertaining games,  I cannot imagine a better made-for-tv matchup than Harbaugh vs. Kelly. 

David Shaw has earned a lot more confidence and support based on the job he has done this season.  There was a lot of frustration after last season when a team with the #2 defense in the nation was undone by offensive anemia.  That frustration reached a boiling point after the first game when the team was lethargic and got pushed around by Northwestern.  But the offense finally got untracked the next game vs. Central Florida (including a 90 yard TD pass on a play that the coaches drew up during the game).  And cynicism and doubt changed to optimism and glee after the shocking upset of U.SC in the Coliseum.  Then while the rest of the conference beat up on each other, Stanford kept winning.  The 8-1 record and Pac 12 North Championship should be an award-worthy accomplishment. 

Everyone I know is a solid Shaw supporter.  That does not mean that we love every decision that he makes.  But he is a perfect fit for Stanford.  His teams have achieved success that I never thought possible over the first 25+ years of my Stanford fandom.  He and his staff and players are excellent representatives of a university that alums hold in very high regard.  I hope he stays for a long, long time.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - NDIrish - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 01:45 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:NDIrish, you will note that your classification on the CardBoard has been upgraded from Honorable Heathen to Distinguished Foreigner based on your activity here.  Well done.

What are your thoughts about ending the Michigan-ND series?  Seems to be a lost opportunity for college football and its fans.  Besides the fact that they have played some really exciting, entertaining games,  I cannot imagine a better made-for-tv matchup than Harbaugh vs. Kelly. 

David Shaw has earned a lot more confidence and support based on the job he has done this season.  There was a lot of frustration after last season when a team with the #2 defense in the nation was undone by offensive anemia.  That frustration reached a boiling point after the first game when the team was lethargic and got pushed around by Northwestern.  But the offense finally got untracked the next game vs. Central Florida (including a 90 yard TD pass on a play that the coaches drew up during the game).  And cynicism and doubt changed to optimism and glee after the shocking upset of U.SC in the Coliseum.  Then while the rest of the conference beat up on each other, Stanford kept winning.  The 8-1 record and Pac 12 North Championship should be an award-worthy accomplishment. 

Everyone I know is a solid Shaw supporter.  That does not mean that we love every decision that he makes.  But he is a perfect fit for Stanford.  His teams have achieved success that I never thought possible over the first 25+ years of my Stanford fandom.  He and his staff and players are excellent representatives of a university that alums hold in very high regard.  I hope he stays for a long, long time.

Thanks for the upgrade. Hopefully most of the posts have been worth the time.

I was disappointed the series ended, but not all that surprise.  Michigan almost did the same thing a few years before.  And from what i have heard, it was always difficult to work with them when ND traveled to michigan.  Michigan made a big fuss about it because ND was the one that finally pulled the trigger, but with the conference realignment people at MU had admitted it would have been hard to keep ND on their schedule anyway, but i guess they found an opportunity to complain, so they did.  Plus it was opportunity to slam ND.  They were great games and i think it will work its way back, but i think ND is making an effort to spread out across the country.  I mean they use to be able to stay in the midwest barely travel and get all the coverage they want, but now that everyone is on TV i think they are trying to reach out the more prosperous parts than Michigan and Indiana, i.e. texas, georgia, miami, etc.  While maintaining their games in California.  I dont think it hurts their schedule, obviously harbaugh wasnt the coach when they did it, but they dropped them and added Texas, which looked like a solid move at the time. 

Its good for Shaw that he has gotten that support.  Makes better coaches when you aren't constantly looking over your shoulder.  I think its good for the sport to have coaches stay for a long time, teach the kids about dedication and perseverance.  From what i have seen he seems like a respectable human being.  I get the slams on Kelly and ND is going to have to make a decision on him quickly, because at 1.2 million a year, he wont stay, not with his record.  So i guess we will see how much the university is behind him.  If he can continue to grow, i think he can become a much more respected person/coach.  I do think he knows how to win and how to get his players ready though.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - stupac2 - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 02:07 PM)NDIrish link Wrote:I get the slams on Kelly and ND is going to have to make a decision on him quickly, because at 1.2 million a year, he wont stay, not with his record.

Is that all he makes? Damn, I would've figured that he'd be higher than that. I'd really expect that with all the vacancies this year, if they don't open the checkbooks he's gone. Is there any sense of that around ND? I know that we regularly hear Shaw's name floated for vacancies (though mostly in the NFL), is there any interest in Kelly?

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - Rally - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 01:19 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:Recruiting has improved significantly in the last two years, and even more vis a vis Harbaugh.

We are winning more head to heads against top ten programs than we did under Harbaugh--and more two years ago than the year before, more last year than the year before, and more this year to date.

Absolutely right, but to be fair to Harbaugh he didn't have nearly the program record to point to that Shaw does. 

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - CTcard - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 01:19 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:Recruiting has improved significantly in the last two years, and even more vis a vis Harbaugh.

Choosing Rivals for no particular reason, we find the following Stanford recruit-class rankings.

2016 (Shaw - so far) #7
2015 (Shaw) #18
2014 (Shaw) #14
2013 (Shaw) #64
2012 (Shaw) #5
2011 (signed under Shaw) #22
2010 (Harbaugh) #26
2009 (Harbaugh) #20
2008 (Harbaugh) #50
2007 (signed under Harbaugh) #51

Now circumstances changed over the years, so a straight off numbers comparison is dicey. And one of the apparent strengths of the Harbaugh regime was a combination of evaluating and developing under-appreciated players. Still, particularly when one realizes that the main issue with the 2013 class was that it was very small, it's pretty clear that our recruiting has not fallen off under Shaw.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - fullmetal - 11-24-2015

As the Stanford program increases in reputation, the offers we make tend to move the market, so to speak.  We don't have Alabama-type hype regarding our talent evaluation, but it's not too bad when Stanford can identify underrated players and develop them into top performers.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - stupac2 - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 04:09 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:As the Stanford program increases in reputation, the offers we make tend to move the market, so to speak.  We don't have Alabama-type hype regarding our talent evaluation, but it's not too bad when Stanford can identify underrated players and develop them into top performers.

That's an interesting point. Would someone like Gardner actually get a boost from a Stanford offer now? I don't really know enough about how this works to say.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - fullmetal - 11-24-2015

I'm not sure it directly translates into a discrete fraction of a star rating boost, but it certainly forces ranking sites to actually take notice of a player and make an effort at evaluation.  If UTEP offers a player, that does not move the needle as much as it does when Stanford/Alabama/Ohio State offers an OL.

Re: Standford - ND discussion - jacketree - 11-24-2015

(11-24-2015, 08:28 AM)CTcard link Wrote:und's best performances have probably been the loss to Clemson and the blow-out of Navy.

Clemson is obviously good, and after the first two Clemson drives, und really controlled the overall sense of play. The TO margin did them in.

The issue with Navy is that is is hard to judge their quality. UND is the only Power 5 team they have played, and they got whupped pretty handily there. But for und it was a pretty convincing win over a team that can be hard to play.

If Stanford can't shore up its defense and if Hogan isn't on, Stanford is too one-dimensional to beat ND, even with ND's injuries.

Clemson is really good - they get short shrift around here because people bag on the ACC and because everyone wants a two-loss Stanford to sneak into the playoffs.  (I'm not convinced Stanford looks top 4 worthy yet - they would have to demolish their next two opponents for me, honestly.)

I watched 3 ND games this year: Georgia Tech, Clemson and Navy (my kid was in the crowd with other Mids).  I gave up on SC-ND (don't remember why), but it seemed fairly similar to the Stanford-SC game. I think ND looks pretty top-tier myself, although the one thing we've learned this year: any given Saturday.  Who the heck knows how this will play out?

I disagree on categorizing the Navy game as a blow-out or whipping.  A 17 point loss is a 17 point loss, but Navy held their own other than a billion turnovers and Reynolds sat for significant time with some injuries. Navy is legit this year. That's a really good win for the Irish. Their Clemson loss is the "best loss" of the year.  Turns out Tech sucked this year (although ask the Noles about that), but at the time they didn't know it year that was an impressive beat down.

If Stanford is really playoff worthy, they would handle ND.  We'll see.

Think the following week is more important myself.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - NDIrish - 11-25-2015

So that sucked last night.  I figured we would be out of the top 4, but i thought worse case we would be right behind oklahoma.  I could care less about both iowa and msu being ahead of us, but with being 2 behind Okl. im not sure if a win over stanford would be enough for them to put us back.  Now ND is needing an upset by oklahoma state, or florida/auburn over bama or major upsets in the big 10.  It was so much simpler when we just needed to stay ahead of oklahoma.

Im not sure if they are a top 4 team or will beat stanford, but i think we are as deserving as Oklahoma, overall, i cant be that upset if we win and end up 5, considering everything this team has been through, but its gonna suck if they wind up so close and not get in.  I know ND has played subpar the last 2 weeks, but what i cant figure out with the committee is they seem to only be looking at the previous weeks play.  Every team in the top 10 has struggled with teams that they shouldn't have, and Oklahoma lost to Texas, barely beat a TCU team on their 3rd string QB who was without their star receiver and has ZERO defense.

If ND can beat stanford, they will have 3 wins over current ranked teams, potentially 5 wins over 8+ win teams (4 could have 9) and played 0 fcs teams. They currently have the 14th hardest schedule and are ranked in the top 1/4 in every team category.  Nothing to be ashamed of there, even if they did struggle here and there.  Like we talked before with Stanford schedule, when you have to play real teams every week, it makes it more likely to slip up, plus both ND and Stanford kids have to go to class (i understand Stanford is a more challenging school, but you have to be a real student at both).

So we will see if this effects ND at all, are the going to waste time and energy on a pitty party that they got bumped and can't control it, or are they going to focus on stanford and see if they can't change a couple minds.

If stanford beats ND and wins the pac 12, i could see them moving as high at 6-7, or 5-6 with upsets ahead of them.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - Hulk01 - 11-25-2015

Let's not slam Brian Kelly.  I love having him at Notre Dame, especially during recruiting season; he's probably helped us land at least one very good recruit a year.

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-25-2015

The committee chairman Jeff Long said last night that "how you are playing" is a very real consideration, in addition to playing good teams.  And you can't deny that having a conference championship game is really going to help teams that play them.  Even though Stanford is three spots lower than ND, you have to like Stanford's chances better at this point between both teams winning this game, but I still think ND deserves to be in over Oklahoma if it beats Stanford.

If Stanford wins out, it beats a #6 and say a #20 in consecutive weeks, and it will have played the following teams ranked in the final Top 25 most likely:  ND, Northwestern, USCLA ( twice), Oregon, Washington State.  That's six games against Top 25 teams and a 4-2 record against them.  Plus, Stanford will have played three more teams with at least 6 wins.  So Stanford would be 4-2 against the Final Top 25 teams, and 7-2 against teams that won at least 6 games. The losses will have been to teams with a combined 19-5 record, and one of those games started at 9am PT and the other was a 2 pt loss with a failed 2 pt conversion on the final play of the game.

ND will have beat the #9 team the week after playing two patsies unimpressively.  It will have played the following teams ranked in the final Top 25 most likely: Clemson, Stanford, Navy, Temple, maybe USC.  It will have gone 4-1 against them, and played one other team with a winning record in Pitt, or 6-1 against teams that won at least 6 games.  And it's one loss was by 2 pts to the #1 team in the country.

Oklahoma will have played three teams ranked in the final Top 25 and gone 3-0 agains them.  OU will have played an additional 3 teams that won at least 6 games and gone 6-0 against teams with 6+ wins.  But they will have only played three Top 25 teams and lost to a TERRIBLE Texas team.

Both Stanford and ND will have better overall resumes and challenged themselves more than Oklahoma did.  But Stanford will have a stronger case than either ND or Oklahoma because the Pac-12 > Big 12 or ACC (that ND gets to feast on).








Re: Stanford - ND discussion - NDIrish - 11-25-2015

With the holiday probably out for the rest of the week, this may be my last post pre-game, hope its a good one and both teams escape without any more injuries.  Good(ish) luck and nice chatting with you guys.

Go Irish!

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - thunder_chik - 11-25-2015

Thanks, Irish, and it's great you decided to check in again with us.
I visited the ND campus briefly this fall during a 5,300+ mile road trip.  Gotta say it's a fabulous venue.  If I had considered going to college outside of California, I might be rooting for the other team on Saturday. ;D

Re: Stanford - ND discussion - Rally - 11-25-2015

Happy Thanksgiving, Irish!  I always enjoy your annual visit.