Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - Printable Version
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Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - CTcard - 03-16-2016
(03-15-2016, 11:02 PM)threepointer link Wrote:When Bowlsby fired Wlat, I had confidence that he knew what he was doing and would hire a great coach and turn the program around. He did. I'll admit he did fumble the next big hire in basketball, but the overwhelming opinion of players, fans, and followers thought he made the right move.Â
Actually, as far as I could tell the overwhelming opinion of followers was that Bowlsby had F-ed up royally. That came both from Johnson supporters and others who hated the hire for various reasons.
... and it may be worth noting that neither your confidence nor mine really has much bearing on whether the hire is any good or not - unless one of us is actually professionally tied in with the basketball coaching community.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - CTcard - 03-16-2016
(03-15-2016, 11:02 PM)threepointer link Wrote:When Bowlsby fired Wlat, I had confidence that he knew what he was doing and would hire a great coach and turn the program around. He did. I'll admit he did fumble the next big hire in basketball, but the overwhelming opinion of players, fans, and followers thought he made the right move.Â
Actually, as far as I could tell the overwhelming opinion of followers was that Bowlsby had F-ed up royally. That came both from Johnson supporters and others who hated the hire for various reasons.
... and it may be worth noting that neither your confidence nor mine really has much bearing on whether the hire is any good or not - unless one of us is actually professionally tied in with the basketball coaching community.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - washingtonismoney - 03-16-2016
(03-16-2016, 03:07 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=threepointer link=topic=14748.msg158698#msg158698 date=1458108175]
When Bowlsby fired Wlat, I had confidence that he knew what he was doing and would hire a great coach and turn the program around. He did. I'll admit he did fumble the next big hire in basketball, but the overwhelming opinion of players, fans, and followers thought he made the right move.Â
Actually, as far as I could tell the overwhelming opinion of followers was that Bowlsby had F-ed up royally. That came both from Johnson supporters and others who hated the hire for various reasons.
[/quote]
Think you two are discussing slightly different situations.
Actually I felt Johnson was a mediocre coach so I wasn't sad Bowlsby let him go. I didn't realize how much Bob would flail hiring his replacement.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - washingtonismoney - 03-16-2016
(03-16-2016, 03:07 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=threepointer link=topic=14748.msg158698#msg158698 date=1458108175]
When Bowlsby fired Wlat, I had confidence that he knew what he was doing and would hire a great coach and turn the program around. He did. I'll admit he did fumble the next big hire in basketball, but the overwhelming opinion of players, fans, and followers thought he made the right move.Â
Actually, as far as I could tell the overwhelming opinion of followers was that Bowlsby had F-ed up royally. That came both from Johnson supporters and others who hated the hire for various reasons.
[/quote]
Think you two are discussing slightly different situations.
Actually I felt Johnson was a mediocre coach so I wasn't sad Bowlsby let him go. I didn't realize how much Bob would flail hiring his replacement.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - teejers1 - 03-16-2016
If you equate "let him go" with terminate, then I disagree with that characterization.
But if you mean "let him go [to LSU]," then I'm more aligned with that sentiment (no extension done before season ended). I do know, however, that BB asked what it would take to keep Trent from getting on the plane. By that time Johnson had accepted the LSU offer and it was too late.
Another thing that doesn't square with BB firing Trent (or constructively discharging him, or whatever term you want to use): it was pretty clear that BB flailed around in the successor search. It sure didn't appear to this outsider that Bowlsby had a plan for succession, with a short list all ready to be contacted. Quite the opposite, was my impression, anyway. (Some believe that BB had Montgomery all lined up to succeed Trent . . . but the obvious flaw in that theory is that Montgomery took the Cal job before Trent left).
The Johnson-Dawkins transition remains a very touchy subject for some Cardinal supporters. As one with no vested personal interest in any of the principals, I just viewed it as a colossal clusterbomb (and that's true regardless of which "side" of the Johnson fence you were on).
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - teejers1 - 03-16-2016
If you equate "let him go" with terminate, then I disagree with that characterization.
But if you mean "let him go [to LSU]," then I'm more aligned with that sentiment (no extension done before season ended). I do know, however, that BB asked what it would take to keep Trent from getting on the plane. By that time Johnson had accepted the LSU offer and it was too late.
Another thing that doesn't square with BB firing Trent (or constructively discharging him, or whatever term you want to use): it was pretty clear that BB flailed around in the successor search. It sure didn't appear to this outsider that Bowlsby had a plan for succession, with a short list all ready to be contacted. Quite the opposite, was my impression, anyway. (Some believe that BB had Montgomery all lined up to succeed Trent . . . but the obvious flaw in that theory is that Montgomery took the Cal job before Trent left).
The Johnson-Dawkins transition remains a very touchy subject for some Cardinal supporters. As one with no vested personal interest in any of the principals, I just viewed it as a colossal clusterbomb (and that's true regardless of which "side" of the Johnson fence you were on).
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - Mick - 03-17-2016
(03-16-2016, 04:11 PM)garvin link Wrote:Quote:(Some believe that BB had Montgomery all lined up to succeed Trent . . . but the obvious flaw in that theory is that Montgomery took the Low APR U job before Trent left).
Also, Montgomery was quoted when he took the 59er job as saying that he asked Bowlsby if there was any reason not to accept it. No, said Bowlsby.
The whole thing remains shrouded in mystery. Teejers is correct that Bowlsby had no plan to replace Johnson; he wandered the country talking to coaches and being turned down. Dawkins didn't come into the picture for several weeks. Doesn't sound in any way like Bowlsby expected to be hiring a new basketball coach.
But Wilner wrote at least one piece a couple of weeks before Johnson interviewed at LSU saying Johnson was unhappy about Stanford's failure to talk to him about a contract extension. That information clearly came from Johnson and/or his agent. So Bowlsby had to have known he had a seriously discontented coach. If he didn't wanted Johnson to leave, why didn't he take action?
None of this adds up.
Occam's Razor.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - Mick - 03-17-2016
(03-16-2016, 04:11 PM)garvin link Wrote:Quote:(Some believe that BB had Montgomery all lined up to succeed Trent . . . but the obvious flaw in that theory is that Montgomery took the Low APR U job before Trent left).
Also, Montgomery was quoted when he took the 59er job as saying that he asked Bowlsby if there was any reason not to accept it. No, said Bowlsby.
The whole thing remains shrouded in mystery. Teejers is correct that Bowlsby had no plan to replace Johnson; he wandered the country talking to coaches and being turned down. Dawkins didn't come into the picture for several weeks. Doesn't sound in any way like Bowlsby expected to be hiring a new basketball coach.
But Wilner wrote at least one piece a couple of weeks before Johnson interviewed at LSU saying Johnson was unhappy about Stanford's failure to talk to him about a contract extension. That information clearly came from Johnson and/or his agent. So Bowlsby had to have known he had a seriously discontented coach. If he didn't wanted Johnson to leave, why didn't he take action?
None of this adds up.
Occam's Razor.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - Spiny_Norman - 03-17-2016
A friend suggested an unconventional candidate - David Blatt. He has been a winner everywhere he has coached. He graduated from Princeton so he understands the academic demands of a student-athlete. And he is available. But he has never coached in college. Before the Cleveland Cavaliers let him go, he had coached in Europe and Israel.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - Spiny_Norman - 03-17-2016
A friend suggested an unconventional candidate - David Blatt. He has been a winner everywhere he has coached. He graduated from Princeton so he understands the academic demands of a student-athlete. And he is available. But he has never coached in college. Before the Cleveland Cavaliers let him go, he had coached in Europe and Israel.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - teejers1 - 03-17-2016
I like the Blatt idea.
Question: would he take it? I mean, he's probably getting paid more by Cleveland now than he would make as coach at Stanford. Why not wait until his guaranteed $$ is paid by the Cavs? [Of course, it's possible he reached a termination settlement with the Cavs already (as Tyrone did with ND before taking UW bank w/o any offsets to ND) - I certainly am not following that saga]. I am "all in" with coaches who know the game and can best instruct the kids in-game.
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - teejers1 - 03-17-2016
I like the Blatt idea.
Question: would he take it? I mean, he's probably getting paid more by Cleveland now than he would make as coach at Stanford. Why not wait until his guaranteed $$ is paid by the Cavs? [Of course, it's possible he reached a termination settlement with the Cavs already (as Tyrone did with ND before taking UW bank w/o any offsets to ND) - I certainly am not following that saga]. I am "all in" with coaches who know the game and can best instruct the kids in-game.
2 immediate demerits hurt JDawk - FrankO - 03-17-2016
at least with me...
1. Letting Plumlee so easily off the hook, releasing him to Dook after he had signed an LOI with Stanford in November...
2. Abrogating his responsibility to Stanford's program by going off to hold K's clipboard in Beijing
2 immediate demerits hurt JDawk - FrankO - 03-17-2016
at least with me...
1. Letting Plumlee so easily off the hook, releasing him to Dook after he had signed an LOI with Stanford in November...
2. Abrogating his responsibility to Stanford's program by going off to hold K's clipboard in Beijing
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - teejers1 - 03-17-2016
The release may not even have been a Dawkins decision, but a Stanford decision. I begrudgingly admit that I like it when "my" university takes the high road, even if it benefits complete tools like the Plumlees. Stanford did the right thing; and the Plumlees and Duke have enjoyed a good run together in Durham.
Maybe we'll get some karmic repayment for that gesture one of these days . . .
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - teejers1 - 03-17-2016
The release may not even have been a Dawkins decision, but a Stanford decision. I begrudgingly admit that I like it when "my" university takes the high road, even if it benefits complete tools like the Plumlees. Stanford did the right thing; and the Plumlees and Duke have enjoyed a good run together in Durham.
Maybe we'll get some karmic repayment for that gesture one of these days . . .
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - BostonCard - 03-17-2016
Worth noting that #12 Yale beat #5 Baylor.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/112704/yale-earns-tourneys-first-upset-by-following-perfect-cinderella-script
Quote:There are two ways for Cinderella to win in the NCAA tournament: Play either a flawless basketball game, or play harder than your opponent.
Yale did both, which is why the 12th-seeded Bulldogs scored the first upset of this tourney, topping No. 5 seed Baylor, 79-75.
How many times in eight years did we say that about a Dawkins coached Stanford basketball team?
BC
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - BostonCard - 03-17-2016
Worth noting that #12 Yale beat #5 Baylor.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/112704/yale-earns-tourneys-first-upset-by-following-perfect-cinderella-script
Quote:There are two ways for Cinderella to win in the NCAA tournament: Play either a flawless basketball game, or play harder than your opponent.
Yale did both, which is why the 12th-seeded Bulldogs scored the first upset of this tourney, topping No. 5 seed Baylor, 79-75.
How many times in eight years did we say that about a Dawkins coached Stanford basketball team?
BC
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - jacketree - 03-17-2016
After upsetting New Mexico and Kansas? Probably a few others. Now that I'm Dawkins' agent on this board (I'll tell you why at the end), just some general observations:
1. I thought it was a recruiting no contact/dead period while he was in China? I get that he wasn't around to hang pictures in his office, or whatever coaches should be doing in the dead of summer, but this issue seems more show than dough to me anyway. Pretty sure they get the internet and emails in China.
2. Perhaps he felt like honoring his commitment to USA basketball.
3. Perhaps he did more than just hold a clipboard.
4. Duke survived K's absence just fine, acknowledging the difference in situations.
5. Monty was an assistant for George Karl and USA Basketball at the 2002 FIBA World Championships. Bastard. (Acknowledging the difference in situations.)
6.
7. What do y'all feel about Tara's Olympic sabbatical? Stanford suffered for her absence.
8. People would really have preferred Plumlee's LOI be enforced when he'd rather be somewhere else? Makes no sense. Kids come first.
9. So how long are we going to kick this guy anyway?
I once sold Johnny Dawkins a hot dog, coke and M&Ms (peanut I'm fairly certain) at a local high school basketball game. He was there to watch his son play. Came in a coat and tie. It might have been after He chatted us up briefly and asked where the concessions money went. "Scholarships." "I'm down with that." Gave us a $50 and walked away. Tried to run him down with his $45 in change, but he waived me off with "I like what you're doing here. Good luck."
Really wished it had worked out for him and I hope to see him at the helm of another program if this is his passion.Â
Re: Wilner declares Jarron Collins the favorite - jacketree - 03-17-2016
After upsetting New Mexico and Kansas? Probably a few others. Now that I'm Dawkins' agent on this board (I'll tell you why at the end), just some general observations:
1. I thought it was a recruiting no contact/dead period while he was in China? I get that he wasn't around to hang pictures in his office, or whatever coaches should be doing in the dead of summer, but this issue seems more show than dough to me anyway. Pretty sure they get the internet and emails in China.
2. Perhaps he felt like honoring his commitment to USA basketball.
3. Perhaps he did more than just hold a clipboard.
4. Duke survived K's absence just fine, acknowledging the difference in situations.
5. Monty was an assistant for George Karl and USA Basketball at the 2002 FIBA World Championships. Bastard. (Acknowledging the difference in situations.)
6.
7. What do y'all feel about Tara's Olympic sabbatical? Stanford suffered for her absence.
8. People would really have preferred Plumlee's LOI be enforced when he'd rather be somewhere else? Makes no sense. Kids come first.
9. So how long are we going to kick this guy anyway?
I once sold Johnny Dawkins a hot dog, coke and M&Ms (peanut I'm fairly certain) at a local high school basketball game. He was there to watch his son play. Came in a coat and tie. It might have been after He chatted us up briefly and asked where the concessions money went. "Scholarships." "I'm down with that." Gave us a $50 and walked away. Tried to run him down with his $45 in change, but he waived me off with "I like what you're doing here. Good luck."
Really wished it had worked out for him and I hope to see him at the helm of another program if this is his passion.Â