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Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - Stymie - 08-09-2016

(08-08-2016, 10:03 AM)PalmTree link Wrote:[quote author=Stymie link=topic=15401.msg167333#msg167333 date=1470655931]
Living in GMT I can report that both Massilas and Ledecky won golds last evening.  Are we recruiting the 17 year old rifle shooter from Arkansas?  If so, we lead the world in the medal count!

Massialas took silver
[/quote]

You are right, PT and thanks.  Living in the UK I only get to watch Americans on BBC when they are competing against Brits, and thought that his semi was a final.  My bad, but silver is very good too.

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - fullmetal - 08-09-2016

Chierika (Coco) Ukogu, racing as the Nigerian women's single sculler, placed fifth in her quarterfinal and will be racing in the first of two C/D semifinals, where the top three finishers from each of the semifinals will advance to the C-level final (places 13-18) and the last three will advance to the D-level final (places 19-24).  Her race will be at 11:40am tomorrow (local time, I presume).

Elle Logan and the US women's eight stormed their way into the A-final (dominant fashion) yesterday and thus will skip tomorrow's repechage.  As expected, the dynasty should continue...fingers crossed.

Grace Luczak (in the women's pair) recorded the second fastest time among all the heats (second only to the British favorites) and will race in the second A/B semifinal tomorrow at 8:30am.  The US pair has been assigned a lane right next to the Brits...big showdown in the works.  This has been a very pleasant surprise--we knew the US women's team was deep and would be strong, but a close second-fastest time overall (and a win in their heat) from the the US pair has raised expectations.  Do they race the semi strategically, sandbagging to save energy?  Or do they sell out to crack the Brits and strike fear into the imperialists??

Austin Hack and the US men's eight finished second in their heat and will race a 5-boat repechage tomorrow at 10am where the top four will move on to the A-final (yeah, not many entries in this event this quadrennial cycle). I expect the US to beat either Poland or Italy, if not New Zealand.  I wouldn't gas out trying to beat the Dutch in a don't-be-last rep...survive and advance.

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - BobK - 08-09-2016

Thanks for the update Full metal. 

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - BostonCard - 08-09-2016

Ledecky with her second gold!

https://twitter.com/teamusa/status/763183689253597184

Barring a very large upset in the 800m on Thursday, where she is the overwhelming favorite, she will likely bring home three gold medals (200, 400, and 800m freestyle) and a silver as part of the 4x100 relay.

BC

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - 82lsju - 08-09-2016

NBC says were only #3 in total medals for a US university at the summer olympics.....

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/ever-wonder-if-colleges-were-countries

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - BostonCard - 08-09-2016

Ledecky alone has as many gold models as any other country in swimming, save the US.

BC

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - DC 86 - 08-09-2016

(08-09-2016, 06:37 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Ledecky with her second gold!

https://twitter.com/teamusa/status/763183689253597184

Barring a very large upset in the 800m on Thursday, where she is the overwhelming favorite, she will likely bring home three gold medals (200, 400, and 800m freestyle) and a silver as part of the 4x100 relay.

BC

Don't forget the 4x200 Free Relay (which is tomorrow), she actually has a chance for four golds.

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - terry - 08-09-2016

Maya DiRado wins bronze in the 200m individual medley. That gives her a silver and a bronze. Congrats to Maya!


[Image: CpdwOTaXEAAZ4ti.jpg]

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - Mick - 08-10-2016

(08-09-2016, 07:00 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Ledecky alone has as many gold models as any other country in swimming, save the US.

BC

I like my models bronzed...

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - 2 for 2028 - 08-10-2016

(08-09-2016, 10:19 AM)fullmetal link Wrote:Chierika (Coco) Ukogu, racing as the Nigerian women's single sculler, placed fifth in her quarterfinal and will be racing in the first of two C/D semifinals, where the top three finishers from each of the semifinals will advance to the C-level final (places 13-18) and the last three will advance to the D-level final (places 19-24).  Her race will be at 11:40am tomorrow (local time, I presume).

Elle Logan and the US women's eight stormed their way into the A-final (dominant fashion) yesterday and thus will skip tomorrow's repechage.  As expected, the dynasty should continue...fingers crossed.

Grace Luczak (in the women's pair) recorded the second fastest time among all the heats (second only to the British favorites) and will race in the second A/B semifinal tomorrow at 8:30am.  The US pair has been assigned a lane right next to the Brits...big showdown in the works.  This has been a very pleasant surprise--we knew the US women's team was deep and would be strong, but a close second-fastest time overall (and a win in their heat) from the the US pair has raised expectations.  Do they race the semi strategically, sandbagging to save energy?  Or do they sell out to crack the Brits and strike fear into the imperialists??

Austin Hack and the US men's eight finished second in their heat and will race a 5-boat repechage tomorrow at 10am where the top four will move on to the A-final (yeah, not many entries in this event this quadrennial cycle). I expect the US to beat either Poland or Italy, if not New Zealand.  I wouldn't gas out trying to beat the Dutch in a don't-be-last rep...survive and advance.

Fullmetal, I believe either you or VG discussed strategy in terms of putting together first and second boats for NCAA championship.  Do you have any insight that you can provide in terms of putting together an Olympic rowing team.  For example, how do the women's pairs rowers compare to those on the eight?  Or does it come down to sculling vs. sweep?  Do teams that are not as deep as the US women put their best rowers in the pairs of fours?  Can someone be really good as an individual or in a pair, but not good when part of a bigger crew? 

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - Viking_Guy - 08-10-2016

2--

Definitely not me.  Soccer, women's b-ball and a few others, sure, but my only crew experience is watching Harvard-Yale in Connecticut when I was a kid.

VG


Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - Treebound - 08-10-2016

Eric Posted an NBC video comparing college medal counts earlier in the thread.  From data I have seen, we are #2 in overall Olympic medal count at 280.  UCLA overstates its count by including coaches of teams.  This NBC Bay Area story has some good info on Rio and colleges, and the Fortune article clearly puts us at the top in terms of Team USA participants.  I would like to see a detailed count of our 280 medals (more now with Rio).  We may overtake USC this year, which would be great. 

BobK, let's talk to Earl about getting an accurate count of all medals, including people like Eric Heiden from the Winter games!  My belief is that we are already the university with the most medals for the USA.  University of Southern Croatia does a nice job of recruiting and training athletes that compete against the USA. I think less than a third of the athletes they send compete for the USA.    Why am I not surprised - win at all costs vs a balanced approach.

Here's the link:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Stanford-Cal-Athletes-Sent-Most-Athletes-Olympics-389637332.html


Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - Stymie - 08-10-2016

Great picture of Katie getting Michael Phelps' autograph, 10 years ago!

[Image: katie-age-9-and-michael-phelps-web.jpg]

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - 82lsju - 08-10-2016

(08-10-2016, 10:42 AM)Treebound link Wrote:BobK, let's talk to Earl about getting an accurate count of all medals, including people like Eric Heiden from the Winter games!  My belief is that we are already the university with the most medals for the USA.  University of Southern Croatia does a nice job of recruiting and training athletes that compete against the USA. I think less than a third of the athletes they send compete for the USA.    Why am I not surprised - win at all costs vs a balanced approach.

Here's the link:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Stanford-ןɐɔ-Athletes-Sent-Most-Athletes-Olympics-389637332.html

there is a total count and winners on gostanford.com (see medal history)

http://www.gostanford.com/news/2016/7/7/athletics-bound-for-rio.aspx

they list winners from 1912-2008 and say


Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - fullmetal - 08-10-2016

(08-10-2016, 07:11 AM)2 for 2028 link Wrote:Fullmetal, I believe either you or VG discussed strategy in terms of putting together first and second boats for NCAA championship.  Do you have any insight that you can provide in terms of putting together an Olympic rowing team.  For example, how do the women's pairs rowers compare to those on the eight?  Or does it come down to sculling vs. sweep?  Do teams that are not as deep as the US women put their best rowers in the pairs of fours?  Can someone be really good as an individual or in a pair, but not good when part of a bigger crew?

There's an art to this kind of thing, and there are several factors that play into how you construct a full lineup. 

Process-oriented factors:
1) Is this boat going to be a trials-selected boat?
2) Is this boat going to be selected from a camp process?

Here are your team-oriented factors:
1) How much elite depth do you have?
2) What are your competitors' priority boats, and how good are those?
3) Are your numbers better in sculling or sweeping?

The selection process is rather byzantine, as detailed in the infographic here: https://megankalmoe.com/2016/01/17/how-to-make-the-olympic-team/.  Terminology: event abbreviations are composed of gender (M/W), number of rowers (1, 2, 4, 8), and boat class (x indicates a sculling boat, - indicates a sweep boat without coxswain, + indicates a sweep boat with coxswain).  L means lightweight; the default is openweight (or heavyweight).

In essence, your best small boat crews will select themselves by virtue of performance, and your big boats are generally selected through a camp.  Big boats are usually the eights and the fours/quads.  A complicating factor: a nation may earn an Olympic qualifying spot via World Championships from the year before an Olympic regatta, but the crew that earned that spot may not be the same crew selected for the Olympic regatta.

If I understand your question correctly though, it is a combination of guesswork and trust in your athletes with an overall goal of maximizing medal count.  Figure out if your horses are faster than theirs.  Pick your priority boats and put in the lineup that you think will be fastest by the time the Olympics rolls around.  (NB: In the US, athletes talk about the perils of peaking for selection trials and then not having enough for the Olympics or Worlds.  US trials are generally held closer to the Olympics than any other nation's selections.) 

To pick your lineups, you look at erg scores (fitness), seat racing (measure of relative speed gained/lost per switch of athlete pairs between two crews), and to some extent, experience--whether you're trying to season a youngster or count on a veteran's poise.  This process needs to be transparent to the athletes throughout the camp selection process, or else you end up with a pretty toxic atmosphere (see David Halberstam's The Amateurs.  Nihil novi.)  Finally, yes, you do have to consider which side sweep rowers can row well.

The pairs/eights issue is a fun one.  The US has, in the past, doubled up their pair into the eight, but that requires two very special athletic specimens capable of handling that.  Even better if they can win their heats in both events and skip straight to the semifinals.  Pairs require far better technique than the eight does, and it requires two rowers who can row an asymmetric boat together well (at least one has to be able to steer well!).  So we say in rowing that if you can row a pair (or a single), you can row just about any other boat.  It's rare that someone who can really make a pair move wouldn't be able to contribute to an eight, but the converse is not always true.  This year the women's pair was selected for World Cup representation by NSR, and at the World Cup (not to be confused with the World Championships), the USA1 pair did well enough to earn the US berth to Rio (they accepted; there was a USA2 as well iirc).  I think the actual US berth was granted via Worlds last year...

Obviously sweep rowers tend to row only sweep boats, so their options are limited.  Scullers tend to be able to sweep as well as scull, so most pre-elite rowers pick up sculling as soon as they leave college (which is mostly sweeping).

If you're a smaller nation, you do tend to prioritize the smaller boats because that's just how many bodies you have.  Croatia, for instance, has a winning M2x (won '15 Worlds) but no other such stars (the US did not qualify a M2x).  GB prioritized the M4- this cycle, as did the USA.  NZL has a superb M1x and M2-.  In fact, the NZL men's pair is so dominant, I don't think any other nation dared prioritize that boat.  Look at Worlds from the year before and see what entries/crews were entered from which nations--that's usually a great indicator of what they'll do the next year for the Olympics.  But if you know their lineups, you can also make guesses based on fitness (erg scores) and past performance as to whether the boat is stacked or not.  These are only guesses though.  The GER M2x contains Marcel Hacker, who used to be a regular medal contender in the single but came into the double this year.  They failed to qualify for the A-final, which had to have been crushing.  Likewise, the '15 Worlds champ NZL W2x were just edged out of the A-final by 0.05 seconds...by the US.  So you never know who's going to show up/peak at the right time.

The Euro nations (plus commonwealth nations) tend to rule the small boats because of rowing's earlier exposure to kids there (and lack of distraction by revenue sports).  USA, GBR, NED, CAN, and GER tend to rule the men's eights.  The USA women rule the women's eights, and everyone else picks up the leftovers (CAN, etc.).  Notable exceptions: Cuba's Angel Fournier Rodriguez in the M1x could be in the mix.  China has a crop of state-sponsored athletes seasoned over the last few years by international competition.  South Africa won the LM4- with a black rower in 2012, which was great for the sport. 

I'm rambling at this point--is there anything in particular I didn't cover that you were looking for?

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - 2 for 2028 - 08-10-2016

(08-10-2016, 01:37 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:[quote author=2 for 2028 link=topic=15401.msg167457#msg167457 date=1470838270]Fullmetal, I believe either you or VG discussed strategy in terms of putting together first and second boats for NCAA championship.  Do you have any insight that you can provide in terms of putting together an Olympic rowing team.  For example, how do the women's pairs rowers compare to those on the eight?  Or does it come down to sculling vs. sweep?  Do teams that are not as deep as the US women put their best rowers in the pairs of fours?  Can someone be really good as an individual or in a pair, but not good when part of a bigger crew?

There's an art to this kind of thing, and there are several factors that play into how you construct a full lineup. 

Process-oriented factors:
1) Is this boat going to be a trials-selected boat?
2) Is this boat going to be selected from a camp process?

Here are your team-oriented factors:
1) How much elite depth do you have?
2) What are your competitors' priority boats, and how good are those?
3) Are your numbers better in sculling or sweeping?

The selection process is rather byzantine, as detailed in the infographic here: https://megankalmoe.com/2016/01/17/how-to-make-the-olympic-team/.  Terminology: event abbreviations are composed of gender (M/W), number of rowers (1, 2, 4, 8), and boat class (x indicates a sculling boat, - indicates a sweep boat without coxswain, + indicates a sweep boat with coxswain).  L means lightweight; the default is openweight (or heavyweight).

In essence, your best small boat crews will select themselves by virtue of performance, and your big boats are generally selected through a camp.  Big boats are usually the eights and the fours/quads.  A complicating factor: a nation may earn an Olympic qualifying spot via World Championships from the year before an Olympic regatta, but the crew that earned that spot may not be the same crew selected for the Olympic regatta.

If I understand your question correctly though, it is a combination of guesswork and trust in your athletes with an overall goal of maximizing medal count.  Figure out if your horses are faster than theirs.  Pick your priority boats and put in the lineup that you think will be fastest by the time the Olympics rolls around.  (NB: In the US, athletes talk about the perils of peaking for selection trials and then not having enough for the Olympics or Worlds.  US trials are generally held closer to the Olympics than any other nation's selections.) 

To pick your lineups, you look at erg scores (fitness), seat racing (measure of relative speed gained/lost per switch of athlete pairs between two crews), and to some extent, experience--whether you're trying to season a youngster or count on a veteran's poise.  This process needs to be transparent to the athletes throughout the camp selection process, or else you end up with a pretty toxic atmosphere (see David Halberstam's The Amateurs.  Nihil novi.)  Finally, yes, you do have to consider which side sweep rowers can row well.

The pairs/eights issue is a fun one.  The US has, in the past, doubled up their pair into the eight, but that requires two very special athletic specimens capable of handling that.  Even better if they can win their heats in both events and skip straight to the semifinals.  Pairs require far better technique than the eight does, and it requires two rowers who can row an asymmetric boat together well (at least one has to be able to steer well!).  So we say in rowing that if you can row a pair (or a single), you can row just about any other boat.  It's rare that someone who can really make a pair move wouldn't be able to contribute to an eight, but the converse is not always true.  This year the women's pair was selected for World Cup representation by NSR, and at the World Cup (not to be confused with the World Championships), the USA1 pair did well enough to earn the US berth to Rio (they accepted; there was a USA2 as well iirc).  I think the actual US berth was granted via Worlds last year...

Obviously sweep rowers tend to row only sweep boats, so their options are limited.  Scullers tend to be able to sweep as well as scull, so most pre-elite rowers pick up sculling as soon as they leave college (which is mostly sweeping).

If you're a smaller nation, you do tend to prioritize the smaller boats because that's just how many bodies you have.  Croatia, for instance, has a winning M2x (won '15 Worlds) but no other such stars (the US did not qualify a M2x).  GB prioritized the M4- this cycle, as did the USA.  NZL has a superb M1x and M2-.  In fact, the NZL men's pair is so dominant, I don't think any other nation dared prioritize that boat.  Look at Worlds from the year before and see what entries/crews were entered from which nations--that's usually a great indicator of what they'll do the next year for the Olympics.  But if you know their lineups, you can also make guesses based on fitness (erg scores) and past performance as to whether the boat is stacked or not.  These are only guesses though.  The GER M2x contains Marcel Hacker, who used to be a regular medal contender in the single but came into the double this year.  They failed to qualify for the A-final, which had to have been crushing.  Likewise, the '15 Worlds champ NZL W2x were just edged out of the A-final by 0.05 seconds...by the US.  So you never know who's going to show up/peak at the right time.

The Euro nations (plus commonwealth nations) tend to rule the small boats because of rowing's earlier exposure to kids there (and lack of distraction by revenue sports).  USA, GBR, NED, CAN, and GER tend to rule the men's eights.  The USA women rule the women's eights, and everyone else picks up the leftovers (CAN, etc.).  Notable exceptions: Cuba's Angel Fournier Rodriguez in the M1x could be in the mix.  China has a crop of state-sponsored athletes seasoned over the last few years by international competition.  South Africa won the LM4- with a black rower in 2012, which was great for the sport. 

I'm rambling at this point--is there anything in particular I didn't cover that you were looking for?
[/quote]

No, thanks.  I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. 

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - 82 Card - 08-10-2016

(08-10-2016, 10:44 AM)Stymie link Wrote:Great picture of Katie getting Michael Phelps' autograph, 10 years ago!

[Image: katie-age-9-and-michael-phelps-web.jpg]

While they're in Rio, they should re-stage that picture with Katie in the chair.

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - ColoradoTree - 08-10-2016

Our very own Simone Manuel had the second-fastest time in 100m freestyle heats this morning, and has Lane 4 for the first semifinal this evening.  This event is one of the few swimming events where the US is not necessarily expected to pick up a medal, so a medal of any color would be terrific.  Let's go, Simone!

(Of course, a fast heat time isn't indicative of later success, as the top swimmers don't go 100% and do basically just enough to qualify for the semi or final to preserve energy for the later swim, with an extreme illustration of that being the USA's Nathan Adrian, the defending Gold medalist in the men's 100 freestyle, who qualified 16th (last) in this year's 100 freestyle heats--just three hundredths of a second away from not advancing--only to have the fastest time in last night's semifinals.)

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - 82lsju - 08-10-2016

from Fortune

This University’s Athletes Are Dominating the U.S. Olympic Team

Stanford students and alumni will participate in swimming, diving, water polo, sailing, rowing, soccer, tennis, volleyball, equestrian, rugby, and fencing events this year, according to information provided by the U.S. Olympic Committee. The university has produced at least one medalist in every Olympics in which the U.S. has competed since 1912. Bernard Muir, Stanford’s athletic director, says this achievement is “synonymous with Stanford Athletics’ reputation as the nation’s most successful athletics program.”

http://fortune.com/2016/08/09/stanford-olympics-athletes-college/?xid=for_fb_sh

Re: Stanford athletes schedules & performances in the Olympics - 82 Card - 08-10-2016

Main NBC feed has Akinradewo in action right now.