Letter from Provost Etchemendy - Printable Version
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Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - 82lsju - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 12:19 PM)ceece link Wrote:What about any of these other administrators? Did any of them go to school at Stanford, to understand that the band does more than just rude halftime shows?
Have any of them been around long enough to see that the band really has changed from the sex drugs and rock-and-roll 70s? It's even really changed from the sexually repressed (but hard drinking) premed-engineer band of the 80s! If all the student affairs admins can see are the minor infractions and not the overall trend, then what hope do the current band students have to ever escape from institutional control?
Marc Tessier-Lavigne, President - not an alum, limited time with the University until his current gig
Chris Griffith, Dean of Students - Not an alum - Stanford experience - various jobs at Stanford since 1980
Greg Boardman, Vice Provost - Not an alum. Stanford experience - He has been the vice provost for student affairs at Stanford University since January 2006. Prior to this, he was interim dean of student affairs from 200506 and dean of students from 200405.
Susan Fleischmann, Associate Dean and Director, Community Standards - Not an alum - Stanford experience - worked at Stanford since 2014
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - 82lsju - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 12:19 PM)ceece link Wrote:What about any of these other administrators? Did any of them go to school at Stanford, to understand that the band does more than just rude halftime shows?
Have any of them been around long enough to see that the band really has changed from the sex drugs and rock-and-roll 70s? It's even really changed from the sexually repressed (but hard drinking) premed-engineer band of the 80s! If all the student affairs admins can see are the minor infractions and not the overall trend, then what hope do the current band students have to ever escape from institutional control?
Marc Tessier-Lavigne, President - not an alum, limited time with the University until his current gig
Chris Griffith, Dean of Students - Not an alum - Stanford experience - various jobs at Stanford since 1980
Greg Boardman, Vice Provost - Not an alum. Stanford experience - He has been the vice provost for student affairs at Stanford University since January 2006. Prior to this, he was interim dean of student affairs from 200506 and dean of students from 200405.
Susan Fleischmann, Associate Dean and Director, Community Standards - Not an alum - Stanford experience - worked at Stanford since 2014
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - JJJ - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 12:47 PM)eric link Wrote:[quote author=ceece link=topic=16290.msg182721#msg182721 date=1481915955]
What about any of these other administrators? Did any of them go to school at Stanford, to understand that the band does more than just rude halftime shows?
Have any of them been around long enough to see that the band really has changed from the sex drugs and rock-and-roll 70s? It's even really changed from the sexually repressed (but hard drinking) premed-engineer band of the 80s! If all the student affairs admins can see are the minor infractions and not the overall trend, then what hope do the current band students have to ever escape from institutional control?
Marc Tessier-Lavigne, President - not an alum, limited time with the University until his current gig
Chris Griffith, Dean of Students - Not an alum - Stanford experience - various jobs at Stanford since 1980
Greg Boardman, Vice Provost - Not an alum. Stanford experience - He has been the vice provost for student affairs at Stanford University since January 2006. Prior to this, he was interim dean of student affairs from 200506 and dean of students from 200405.
Susan Fleischmann, Associate Dean and Director, Community Standards - Not an alum - Stanford experience - worked at Stanford since 2014
[/quote]
Thanks. This, in a nutshell, is the problem, in my very limited opinion. I'd like to believe that if it were up to Etch and Howard Wolf to decide, Band would be lauded for their progress to date and given the green light to go back to regular activities in January, so that they may greet the ProFros, support the men's and women's hoops teams, and various other worthy causes as well as those that need the funk brought to them.
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - JJJ - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 12:47 PM)eric link Wrote:[quote author=ceece link=topic=16290.msg182721#msg182721 date=1481915955]
What about any of these other administrators? Did any of them go to school at Stanford, to understand that the band does more than just rude halftime shows?
Have any of them been around long enough to see that the band really has changed from the sex drugs and rock-and-roll 70s? It's even really changed from the sexually repressed (but hard drinking) premed-engineer band of the 80s! If all the student affairs admins can see are the minor infractions and not the overall trend, then what hope do the current band students have to ever escape from institutional control?
Marc Tessier-Lavigne, President - not an alum, limited time with the University until his current gig
Chris Griffith, Dean of Students - Not an alum - Stanford experience - various jobs at Stanford since 1980
Greg Boardman, Vice Provost - Not an alum. Stanford experience - He has been the vice provost for student affairs at Stanford University since January 2006. Prior to this, he was interim dean of student affairs from 200506 and dean of students from 200405.
Susan Fleischmann, Associate Dean and Director, Community Standards - Not an alum - Stanford experience - worked at Stanford since 2014
[/quote]
Thanks. This, in a nutshell, is the problem, in my very limited opinion. I'd like to believe that if it were up to Etch and Howard Wolf to decide, Band would be lauded for their progress to date and given the green light to go back to regular activities in January, so that they may greet the ProFros, support the men's and women's hoops teams, and various other worthy causes as well as those that need the funk brought to them.
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - BostonCard - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 11:28 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=CTcard link=topic=16290.msg182710#msg182710 date=1481912015]- The Stanford bureaucracy, like all bureaucracies, is actually a lot of individual people making lots of individual decisions. Almost by definition there is a wide range of sincerity and competency among those people. Some acting poorly is not an indication that all act poorly, and I guess some acting earnestly and properly is not an indication that all will. In my own encounters with the Stanford bureaucracy I have certainly encountered both.
I don't believe this is true. I institutions have cultures, and I think Stanford's administration's culture has evolved to be overly cautious and out of touch. Keep in mind that my experiences are going to be significantly more recent than yours, unless you have some reason to be in contact with them well after graduation and not living in the area.
[/quote]
The two quotes are not necessarily incompatible with one another. Most bureaucracies are (on balance) overly cautious. When I was at the school, and Gerhart Casper/Condi Rice were our president and provost, respectively, the consensus is that they were out of touch and overly cautious. To be honest, Hennessy/Etchemendy seem less so. But the fact of the matter, is that the administration has multiple stakeholders (student, faculty, alums, etc.) that it has to be responsive to, and so to any one group, the administration will of course appear aloof. But even though the bureaucracy as a whole evolves to be cautious and out of touch, it is still composed of individuals, with varying agendas and interest in advancing them.
(12-16-2016, 11:28 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:That would surprise me. The administration had to know this was explosive news and for it to be handled only at low levels would be insane. Though, seeing my comment above, maybe they really are that out of touch.
I wouldn't characterize Greg Boardman as a "low level" staffer; he is Vice Provost for Student Affairs, and probably the appropriate person for dealing with this, reserving Etchemendy as the person to appeal the decision to. I have to believe it has been discussed with Etch, but more along a "keep me in the loop" rather than as an integrated decision maker.
(12-16-2016, 11:28 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:His only intent is to mollify angry alums. He could have actually revealed the details, or said "yeah buying a pitcher of beer [so far the only sin that's been disclosed] doesn't justify this". Or promised to actually disclose what the transgressions were, why the band didn't meet the university's expectations, what those expectations are, basically anything. Maybe I couldn't have expected any better from someone in his position, but this letter was useless and meaningless.
It may or may not have been relevant to the letter, but I agree that this is my biggest gripe about the situation. It is hard for me to formulate an opinion about the severity of the infractions and appropriateness of the sanctions if I don't really have a good sense of the severity of what the band did or how it responded to it. Surely there is a way to better communicate what happened and the response without violating the confidentiality of Title IX procedures. As to whether that belongs in the letter, I'm not sure.
BC
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - BostonCard - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 11:28 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=CTcard link=topic=16290.msg182710#msg182710 date=1481912015]- The Stanford bureaucracy, like all bureaucracies, is actually a lot of individual people making lots of individual decisions. Almost by definition there is a wide range of sincerity and competency among those people. Some acting poorly is not an indication that all act poorly, and I guess some acting earnestly and properly is not an indication that all will. In my own encounters with the Stanford bureaucracy I have certainly encountered both.
I don't believe this is true. I institutions have cultures, and I think Stanford's administration's culture has evolved to be overly cautious and out of touch. Keep in mind that my experiences are going to be significantly more recent than yours, unless you have some reason to be in contact with them well after graduation and not living in the area.
[/quote]
The two quotes are not necessarily incompatible with one another. Most bureaucracies are (on balance) overly cautious. When I was at the school, and Gerhart Casper/Condi Rice were our president and provost, respectively, the consensus is that they were out of touch and overly cautious. To be honest, Hennessy/Etchemendy seem less so. But the fact of the matter, is that the administration has multiple stakeholders (student, faculty, alums, etc.) that it has to be responsive to, and so to any one group, the administration will of course appear aloof. But even though the bureaucracy as a whole evolves to be cautious and out of touch, it is still composed of individuals, with varying agendas and interest in advancing them.
(12-16-2016, 11:28 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:That would surprise me. The administration had to know this was explosive news and for it to be handled only at low levels would be insane. Though, seeing my comment above, maybe they really are that out of touch.
I wouldn't characterize Greg Boardman as a "low level" staffer; he is Vice Provost for Student Affairs, and probably the appropriate person for dealing with this, reserving Etchemendy as the person to appeal the decision to. I have to believe it has been discussed with Etch, but more along a "keep me in the loop" rather than as an integrated decision maker.
(12-16-2016, 11:28 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:His only intent is to mollify angry alums. He could have actually revealed the details, or said "yeah buying a pitcher of beer [so far the only sin that's been disclosed] doesn't justify this". Or promised to actually disclose what the transgressions were, why the band didn't meet the university's expectations, what those expectations are, basically anything. Maybe I couldn't have expected any better from someone in his position, but this letter was useless and meaningless.
It may or may not have been relevant to the letter, but I agree that this is my biggest gripe about the situation. It is hard for me to formulate an opinion about the severity of the infractions and appropriateness of the sanctions if I don't really have a good sense of the severity of what the band did or how it responded to it. Surely there is a way to better communicate what happened and the response without violating the confidentiality of Title IX procedures. As to whether that belongs in the letter, I'm not sure.
BC
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - TreesAndBirds - 12-16-2016
Has anyone heard of any alums, faculty or other interest groups supporting the suspension of the Band?
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - TreesAndBirds - 12-16-2016
Has anyone heard of any alums, faculty or other interest groups supporting the suspension of the Band?
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - 76lsjumb - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 03:03 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Has anyone heard of any alums, faculty or other interest groups supporting the suspension of the Band?
I believe the Iowa state legislature was in favor of it...
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - 76lsjumb - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 03:03 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Has anyone heard of any alums, faculty or other interest groups supporting the suspension of the Band?
I believe the Iowa state legislature was in favor of it...
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - stupac2 - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 02:51 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:I wouldn't characterize Greg Boardman as a "low level" staffer; he is Vice Provost for Student Affairs, and probably the appropriate person for dealing with this, reserving Etchemendy as the person to appeal the decision to. I have to believe it has been discussed with Etch, but more along a "keep me in the loop" rather than as an integrated decision maker.
Right, that's what I mean, he had to know what the transgressions were, what the punishment was going to be, etc. Maybe he didn't know the exact details of the situation, but either:
1) Boardman was actively misleading Etchemendy about what the band was doing, or
2) Etchemendy knew the essential details and agreed with the course of action.
I suppose #1 is possible, but I think #2 is more likely. Maybe Etchemendy wasn't sitting on in meetings, but does anyone really believe that the decision to suspend an integral piece of the university's culture wasn't cleared at the highest levels?
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - stupac2 - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 02:51 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:I wouldn't characterize Greg Boardman as a "low level" staffer; he is Vice Provost for Student Affairs, and probably the appropriate person for dealing with this, reserving Etchemendy as the person to appeal the decision to. I have to believe it has been discussed with Etch, but more along a "keep me in the loop" rather than as an integrated decision maker.
Right, that's what I mean, he had to know what the transgressions were, what the punishment was going to be, etc. Maybe he didn't know the exact details of the situation, but either:
1) Boardman was actively misleading Etchemendy about what the band was doing, or
2) Etchemendy knew the essential details and agreed with the course of action.
I suppose #1 is possible, but I think #2 is more likely. Maybe Etchemendy wasn't sitting on in meetings, but does anyone really believe that the decision to suspend an integral piece of the university's culture wasn't cleared at the highest levels?
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - 81alum - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 03:13 PM)76lsjumb link Wrote:[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16290.msg182743#msg182743 date=1481925805]
Has anyone heard of any alums, faculty or other interest groups supporting the suspension of the Band?
I believe the Iowa state legislature was in favor of it...
[/quote]
My wife, '80, (I guess you could call her 80alum) supports the suspension. We are trying not to let our differences destroy our marriage :PÂ
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - 81alum - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 03:13 PM)76lsjumb link Wrote:[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=16290.msg182743#msg182743 date=1481925805]
Has anyone heard of any alums, faculty or other interest groups supporting the suspension of the Band?
I believe the Iowa state legislature was in favor of it...
[/quote]
My wife, '80, (I guess you could call her 80alum) supports the suspension. We are trying not to let our differences destroy our marriage :PÂ
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - BostonCard - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 04:41 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:1) Boardman was actively misleading Etchemendy about what the band was doing, or
2) Etchemendy knew the essential details and agreed with the course of action.
Or #3, Etch (to Boardman): "As vice provost for Student Affairs, this is your call; I will support you either way, just keep me informed"
BC
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - BostonCard - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 04:41 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:1) Boardman was actively misleading Etchemendy about what the band was doing, or
2) Etchemendy knew the essential details and agreed with the course of action.
Or #3, Etch (to Boardman): "As vice provost for Student Affairs, this is your call; I will support you either way, just keep me informed"
BC
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - stupac2 - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 06:20 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=16290.msg182747#msg182747 date=1481931718]
1) Boardman was actively misleading Etchemendy about what the band was doing, or
2) Etchemendy knew the essential details and agreed with the course of action.
Or #3, Etch (to Boardman): "As vice provost for Student Affairs, this is your call; I will support you either way, just keep me informed"
BC
[/quote]
How is that different from #2?
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - stupac2 - 12-16-2016
(12-16-2016, 06:20 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=16290.msg182747#msg182747 date=1481931718]
1) Boardman was actively misleading Etchemendy about what the band was doing, or
2) Etchemendy knew the essential details and agreed with the course of action.
Or #3, Etch (to Boardman): "As vice provost for Student Affairs, this is your call; I will support you either way, just keep me informed"
BC
[/quote]
How is that different from #2?
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - BostonCard - 12-16-2016
"Support" does not necessarily equate with "agree".
BC
Re: Letter from Provost Etchemendy - BostonCard - 12-16-2016
"Support" does not necessarily equate with "agree".
BC