Mora fired - Printable Version
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Re: Mora fired - CTcard - 11-21-2017
(11-21-2017, 11:53 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=ColoradoTree link=topic=18083.msg214095#msg214095 date=1511280982]
He'll never be the sexy pick, though, which probably factors into why he hasn't become a head coach. You'd need a place that isn't concerned with sexy, doesn't have outsized expectations, and mainly just wants a solid guy that will run a clean and respectable program. Iowa once Ferentz leaves, perhaps?
Slightly OT, but I love to hire the non-sexy pick, the candidate who is qualified as anyone but for a variety of reasons isn't considered the sexy pick. They almost always pan out for me. And candidly...I don't quite trust the sexy pick. They're often overrated for a variety of other reasons.
[/quote]
While I think I have seen every possible iteration of how a particular kind of coaching hire pans out, I agree that it's fairly often that the non-sexy pick turns out the best.
While there is much denying it now, very few people were excited when Stanford hired Harbaugh (though in his own kind of crazy way he was a sexy pick).
Here is Wilner's famously prescient take:
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2006/12/18/stanford-hires-jim-harbaugh-are-you-kidding-me/
Shaw was not a sexy pick, and from day one elicited a fair amount of fan anger that he wasn't Petersen, or Fangio, or Roman, or ...
Sometimes sexy hires work fine.
Petersen may have lost a little luster, but is mostly working out fine at UW.
Meyer was a sexy pick at tOSU.
Sometimes sexy picks work out less-fine.
Walsh-II.
Most U$C hires of recent vintage.
Many others everyone here can list.
And of course tons of non-sexy picks haven't worked out well - really most coaching hires don't work out well long term.
-----
Mostly I take that to mean: a) it is difficult to figure out who will do well at any particular situation, and b) most fans (and some ADs) have very little useful information on the topic.
Re: Mora fired - unclechuck - 11-21-2017
Wilner's column a great refresher on what an outstanding AD job Bowlsby did @ Stanford with his inspired hire of Harbaugh. I had the chance to chat with him some when he and Harbaugh were doing the banquet circuit in San Diego. I recall positively how informed and insightful he was about the men's and women's swimming programs in spite of his brief time as AD. A real difference maker at a critical time for our entire sports program.
A trip in the Way-Back Machine: Reading Wilner - Redrum - 11-21-2017
That Harbaugh hiring story was vintage Wilner. First, my concession. An obvious concession but give the Devil his due. Yes, Harbaugh was a risky hire. But Wilner really worked, really crafted that critique. That's the difference between taking real risks and writing about risks. Bowlsby actually took the risks for everyone to see and judge. Wilner crafted his critique with just enough concession to what maybe/might could happen to cover his own a**. And he made sure to launch a second strike with the nonsense about Harbaugh's supposedly outrageous bathroom remodel in the athletics building. Petty is as petty does.
He lost me then and I haven't read much of his work since that impressed me that he was anything but a beat writer grinding it out. Now the PAC 12 is theoretically his whole beat but I haven't read a lot of his stuff that seems particularly insightful. A beat writer lucky to be one of the guys on the raft as the newspaper media world sank lower and lower in the water.
Re: A trip in the Way-Back Machine: Reading Wilner - unclechuck - 11-21-2017
(11-21-2017, 02:31 PM)Redrum link Wrote:That Harbaugh hiring story was vintage Wilner. First, my concession. An obvious concession but give the Devil his due. Yes, Harbaugh was a risky hire. But Wilner really worked, really crafted that critique. That's the difference between taking real risks and writing about risks. Bowlsby actually took the risks for everyone to see and judge. Wilner crafted his critique with just enough concession to what maybe/might could happen to cover his own a**. And he made sure to launch a second strike with the nonsense about Harbaugh's supposedly outrageous bathroom remodel in the athletics building. Petty is as petty does.
He lost me then and I haven't read much of his work since that impressed me that he was anything but a beat writer grinding it out. Now the PAC 12 is theoretically his whole beat but I haven't read a lot of his stuff that seems particularly insightful. A beat writer lucky to be one of the guys on the raft as the newspaper media world sank lower and lower in the water.
Spot on; well said.
Re: Mora fired - TreesAndBirds - 11-21-2017
(11-21-2017, 01:17 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=18083.msg214116#msg214116 date=1511290434]
[quote author=ColoradoTree link=topic=18083.msg214095#msg214095 date=1511280982]
He'll never be the sexy pick, though, which probably factors into why he hasn't become a head coach. You'd need a place that isn't concerned with sexy, doesn't have outsized expectations, and mainly just wants a solid guy that will run a clean and respectable program. Iowa once Ferentz leaves, perhaps?
Slightly OT, but I love to hire the non-sexy pick, the candidate who is qualified as anyone but for a variety of reasons isn't considered the sexy pick. They almost always pan out for me. And candidly...I don't quite trust the sexy pick. They're often overrated for a variety of other reasons.
[/quote]
While I think I have seen every possible iteration of how a particular kind of coaching hire pans out, I agree that it's fairly often that the non-sexy pick turns out the best.
While there is much denying it now, very few people were excited when Stanford hired Harbaugh (though in his own kind of crazy way he was a sexy pick).
Here is Wilner's famously prescient take:
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2006/12/18/stanford-hires-jim-harbaugh-are-you-kidding-me/
Shaw was not a sexy pick, and from day one elicited a fair amount of fan anger that he wasn't Petersen, or Fangio, or Roman, or ...
Sometimes sexy hires work fine.
Petersen may have lost a little luster, but is mostly working out fine at UW.
Meyer was a sexy pick at tOSU.
Sometimes sexy picks work out less-fine.
Walsh-II.
Most U$C hires of recent vintage.
Many others everyone here can list.
And of course tons of non-sexy picks haven't worked out well - really most coaching hires don't work out well long term.
-----
Mostly I take that to mean: a) it is difficult to figure out who will do well at any particular situation, and b) most fans (and some ADs) have very little useful information on the topic.
[/quote]
If ( and I acknowledge I dont have stats) "sexy" and "non-sexy" picks have similar success rates, then as a university I'd go with non-sexy....less expensive. As an AD, my butt might be covered better with sexy....probably can avoid the initial second guessing by Wilner types.
Re: Mora fired - CTcard - 11-21-2017
(11-21-2017, 03:02 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:If ( and I acknowledge I dont have stats) "sexy" and "non-sexy" picks have similar success rates, then as a university I'd go with non-sexy....less expensive. As an AD, my butt might be covered better with sexy....probably can avoid the initial second guessing by Wilner types.
I have no idea if they have similar success rates, but the point is more that to do a good hire you need someone in charge who is: (in order) a) well enough connected to the football coaching world that s/he can get real evaluations/recommendations (or better, do at least part of those evaluations him/herself), b) well enough versed in the local school/situation to know what can succeed there, and c) lucky.
Most fans don't qualify on account a.
It's also hard to assess how often c) is the over-riding factor.
Re: Mora fired - ColoradoTree - 11-21-2017
(11-21-2017, 01:17 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=18083.msg214116#msg214116 date=1511290434]
[quote author=ColoradoTree link=topic=18083.msg214095#msg214095 date=1511280982]
He'll never be the sexy pick, though, which probably factors into why he hasn't become a head coach. You'd need a place that isn't concerned with sexy, doesn't have outsized expectations, and mainly just wants a solid guy that will run a clean and respectable program. Iowa once Ferentz leaves, perhaps?
Slightly OT, but I love to hire the non-sexy pick, the candidate who is qualified as anyone but for a variety of reasons isn't considered the sexy pick. They almost always pan out for me. And candidly...I don't quite trust the sexy pick. They're often overrated for a variety of other reasons.
[/quote]
While I think I have seen every possible iteration of how a particular kind of coaching hire pans out, I agree that it's fairly often that the non-sexy pick turns out the best.
While there is much denying it now, very few people were excited when Stanford hired Harbaugh (though in his own kind of crazy way he was a sexy pick).
Here is Wilner's famously prescient take:
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2006/12/18/stanford-hires-jim-harbaugh-are-you-kidding-me/
Shaw was not a sexy pick, and from day one elicited a fair amount of fan anger that he wasn't Petersen, or Fangio, or Roman, or ...
Sometimes sexy hires work fine.
Petersen may have lost a little luster, but is mostly working out fine at UW.
Meyer was a sexy pick at tOSU.
Sometimes sexy picks work out less-fine.
Walsh-II.
Most U$C hires of recent vintage.
Many others everyone here can list.
And of course tons of non-sexy picks haven't worked out well - really most coaching hires don't work out well long term.
-----
Mostly I take that to mean: a) it is difficult to figure out who will do well at any particular situation, and b) most fans (and some ADs) have very little useful information on the topic.
[/quote]
I think both Meyer and Petersen are tough cases if we're trying to place each of them in a sexy/non-sexy dichotomy. When I think of a "sexy" hire, I think of an up-and-coming coach, either a coordinator at a big program, a rising head coach at a mid-major, or a head coach at a lesser Power 5 program that is upwardly mobile. There's often a novelty element to it, a "hot new coach of the moment" factor, but sometimes with a greater risk profile, either because the coach is unproven at that level, they may not be around long, or they have a non-traditional path to that job, which could suggest concerns about program fit. Think of James Franklin when he moved from Vanderbilt to Penn State, or P.J. Fleck at undefeated (in the regular season, at least) Western Michigan last year, now of Minnesota. When thinking about non-sexy hires, by contrast, I think of stability and consistency over a period of several years. You know, the longtime assistant finally inheriting the top job, or the mid-major coach who never quite broke through but always had a decent team. Ideally, not as much risk as the sexy pick, but perhaps not the same level of reward, either. (Of course, there are plenty of non-sexy picks that have tanked programs for various reasons. This is not a perfect definition I'm floating here, but just to explain the lens through which I view this stuff.)
But Chris Petersen was Boise State's head coach for 8 years before he finally agreed to come to Washington, and he'd been a popular name for vacancy after vacancy at bigger programs for years. He'd been seasoned. He embodied elements of both a sexy and a non-sexy hire. Same with Urban Meyer. While he was clearly a sexy hire when he went from Utah to Florida, by the team he came out of retirement and joined Ohio State, he had demonstrated that same kind of stability and consistency. Both were home run hires, to be sure, but precisely because they gave you the best of both worlds, I find it difficult to definitively declare either to fit in one category or the other.Â
Equally valid, of course, is the viewpoint that a coach's notoriety, either for good or for ill, makes them fall into the "sexy" camp by default, and that Petersen and Meyer therefore are merely on the far end of the "proven track record of success" spectrum within that camp.Â
Re: Mora fired - martyup - 11-21-2017
Wilner said back then,
Quote:Now, I know Stanford doesnt pay top dollar, or even medium dollar.
I'm glad that has changed.
Re: Mora fired - JJJ - 11-21-2017
Not sure this deserves a new thread so I'll put it here. Sumlin possibly gone, Jimbo Fisher potentially the shiny new toy.
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-texas-expected-fire-kevin-sumlin-lsu-game-003931350.html
Re: Mora fired - BostonCard - 11-22-2017
Looks like it is a Florida versus UCLA battle for Chip Kelly.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/free-agent-coach-chip-kelly-should-decide-on-florida-or-ucla-by-sunday/
I'm conflicted about this. On the one hand, I think it would be good for the Pac-12 if it won a very high profile coaching battle against an SEC team. Plus, while I think Kelly will be good for UCLA, I don't think it's a given that things will work out. Then again, he's probably better than whatever their second choice is.
BC
Re: Mora fired - rudruff - 11-22-2017
I am not conflicted. Kelly to Florida. UCLA brings in Jeff Fisher.
Re: Mora fired - Goose - 11-22-2017
Hard to know what to wish for here. UCLA has really backed themselves into a corner by raising expectations that they can get Chip Kelly. It will make them look foolish if they don't succeed. It will also make whoever they do hire acutely aware that he was the second choice. GoJoeBruin seems to see this a pattern with UCLA hires. OTOH, I don't think Kelly is the right guy for UCLA. Past history makes betting on less-than-success for whoever gets the job a pretty good bet, but Kelly may may have too many expectations based on his time at Oregon. UCLA is not Oregon. Plenty of potential problems, like a hostile press, that Kelly has shown little patience for. Chip, go to Florida. Fewer problems.
Re: Mora fired - lex24 - 11-22-2017
Another issue, at least short term is that Mora went to more of a pro-set with Rosen. Not an easy transition. Personally if Im UCLA I bring back Vermeil ð
(11-22-2017, 07:04 PM)Goose link Wrote:Hard to know what to wish for here. UCLA has really backed themselves into a corner by raising expectations that they can get Chip Kelly. It will make them look foolish if they don't succeed. It will also make whoever they do hire acutely aware that he was the second choice. GoJoeBruin seems to see this a pattern with UCLA hires. OTOH, I don't think Kelly is the right guy for UCLA. Past history makes betting on less-than-success for whoever gets the job a pretty good bet, but Kelly may may have too many expectations based on his time at Oregon. UCLA is not Oregon. Plenty of potential problems, like a hostile press, that Kelly has shown little patience for. Chip, go to Florida. Fewer problems.
Re: Mora fired - Beeg_Dawg - 11-22-2017
(11-19-2017, 05:04 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:Strongest rumors are about UCLA aggressively going after Chip Kelly. It was interesting that Dan Guerrero announced that Casey Wasserman would be "assisting him" in the search process. Indicates that money will not be an issue, and that UCLA could actually prevail in a bidding war. The other name that is getting a lot of play is Kevin Sumlin (assuming he departs A&M).
Uh, UCLA is not going to prevail in bidding war against Florida. Take that to the bank.
Re: Mora fired - Beeg_Dawg - 11-22-2017
(11-22-2017, 07:04 PM)Goose link Wrote:Hard to know what to wish for here. UCLA has really backed themselves into a corner by raising expectations that they can get Chip Kelly. It will make them look foolish if they don't succeed. It will also make whoever they do hire acutely aware that he was the second choice. GoJoeBruin seems to see this a pattern with UCLA hires. OTOH, I don't think Kelly is the right guy for UCLA. Past history makes betting on less-than-success for whoever gets the job a pretty good bet, but Kelly may may have too many expectations based on his time at Oregon. UCLA is not Oregon. Plenty of potential problems, like a hostile press, that Kelly has shown little patience for. Chip, go to Florida. Fewer problems.
Chip wouldn't have problems with press in Florida? ???
Re: Mora fired - Goose - 11-22-2017
(11-22-2017, 09:56 PM)BeegDawg link Wrote:[quote author=Goose link=topic=18083.msg214312#msg214312 date=1511402653]
Hard to know what to wish for here. UCLA has really backed themselves into a corner by raising expectations that they can get Chip Kelly. It will make them look foolish if they don't succeed. It will also make whoever they do hire acutely aware that he was the second choice. GoJoeBruin seems to see this a pattern with UCLA hires. OTOH, I don't think Kelly is the right guy for UCLA. Past history makes betting on less-than-success for whoever gets the job a pretty good bet, but Kelly may may have too many expectations based on his time at Oregon. UCLA is not Oregon. Plenty of potential problems, like a hostile press, that Kelly has shown little patience for. Chip, go to Florida. Fewer problems.
Chip wouldn't have problems with press in Florida? ???
[/quote]
My perception, possibly wrong, is that the press in Florida are mostly results oriented, but will give a "honeymoon" period to the coach. Two years down the road, you better be in the championship game :). Before that, you can skate a bit. I think the LA press will be after Kelly on day 1. He is going to change the offense in ways that don't mesh with UCLA history/tradition. He won't expect to have any disagreement. That won't happen
Re: Mora fired - lex24 - 11-22-2017
UCLA ran a spread/ read option style offense with Hundley. Mora, to much fanfare, changed the philosophy after Rosens freshman year to go to a pro-style type offense. Struggled last year, in part, cause the o-line had difficulty. Offense hasnt been the problem this year. Its been good. But I think the players they recruited probably dont mesh with a read option style. Just a guess. Of course Rosen will be moving on. I have no idea who they have to replace him at QB.
(11-22-2017, 10:04 PM)Goose link Wrote:[quote author=BeegDawg link=topic=18083.msg214333#msg214333 date=1511413009]
[quote author=Goose link=topic=18083.msg214312#msg214312 date=1511402653]
Hard to know what to wish for here. UCLA has really backed themselves into a corner by raising expectations that they can get Chip Kelly. It will make them look foolish if they don't succeed. It will also make whoever they do hire acutely aware that he was the second choice. GoJoeBruin seems to see this a pattern with UCLA hires. OTOH, I don't think Kelly is the right guy for UCLA. Past history makes betting on less-than-success for whoever gets the job a pretty good bet, but Kelly may may have too many expectations based on his time at Oregon. UCLA is not Oregon. Plenty of potential problems, like a hostile press, that Kelly has shown little patience for. Chip, go to Florida. Fewer problems.
Chip wouldn't have problems with press in Florida? ???
[/quote]
My perception, possibly wrong, is that the press in Florida are mostly results oriented, but will give a "honeymoon" period to the coach. Two years down the road, you better be in the championship game :). Before that, you can skate a bit. I think the LA press will be after Kelly on day 1. He is going to change the offense in ways that don't mesh with UCLA history/tradition. He won't expect to have any disagreement. That won't happen
[/quote]
Re: Mora fired - Beeg_Dawg - 11-23-2017
(11-22-2017, 10:18 PM)lex24 link Wrote:UCLA ran a spread/ read option style offense with Hundley. Mora, to much fanfare, changed the philosophy after Rosens freshman year to go to a pro-style type offense. Struggled last year, in part, cause the o-line had difficulty. Offense hasnt been the problem this year. Its been good. But I think the players they recruited probably dont mesh with a read option style. Just a guess. Of course Rosen will be moving on. I have no idea who they have to replace him at QB.
[quote author=Goose link=topic=18083.msg214334#msg214334 date=1511413488]
[quote author=BeegDawg link=topic=18083.msg214333#msg214333 date=1511413009]
[quote author=Goose link=topic=18083.msg214312#msg214312 date=1511402653]
Hard to know what to wish for here. UCLA has really backed themselves into a corner by raising expectations that they can get Chip Kelly. It will make them look foolish if they don't succeed. It will also make whoever they do hire acutely aware that he was the second choice. GoJoeBruin seems to see this a pattern with UCLA hires. OTOH, I don't think Kelly is the right guy for UCLA. Past history makes betting on less-than-success for whoever gets the job a pretty good bet, but Kelly may may have too many expectations based on his time at Oregon. UCLA is not Oregon. Plenty of potential problems, like a hostile press, that Kelly has shown little patience for. Chip, go to Florida. Fewer problems.
Chip wouldn't have problems with press in Florida? ???
[/quote]
My perception, possibly wrong, is that the press in Florida are mostly results oriented, but will give a "honeymoon" period to the coach. Two years down the road, you better be in the championship game :). Before that, you can skate a bit. I think the LA press will be after Kelly on day 1. He is going to change the offense in ways that don't mesh with UCLA history/tradition. He won't expect to have any disagreement. That won't happen
[/quote]
[/quote]
IMHO, Mora has not all that great. Outside a couple of 10-3 seasons, he is at best mediocre. It is interesting UCLA spiraled downward after Rosen came on board.Â
Re: Mora fired - CTcard - 11-23-2017
(11-23-2017, 04:48 AM)BeegDawg link Wrote:It is interesting UCLA spiraled downward after Rosen came on board.
Maybe thats why Shaw didnt opt for Rosen ... he likes his job.
Re: Mora fired - BostonCard - 11-23-2017
Maybe, but it is tough to blame Rosen for UcLAs Decline. Last year, of course, Rosen was injured. This year, as Lex mentioned, the offense has been pretty good. UCLA has the fourth best scoring offense in the conference, third most yards per game, and second most passing yards behind WSU. Rosens pass efficiency rating is third in the conference, and he is tops in yards per game.
UCLAs problem is on defense; they are second to last in points given up, and dead last in yards per game, second to last in yards per play. Given that Mora was ostensibly a defensive oriented guy, thats a problem.
BC