I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - Printable Version
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Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - washingtonismoney - 12-29-2017
Yeah, very strange to me to declare Shaws record with his subpar QBs mediocre. In fact, for better or worse, Id say his record with subpar QBs is excellent.
If youre looking to grouse, complaining that Shaws spent *too much time* with mediocre QBs is a much more compelling argument to me.
In 2012, Hogan wasnt introduced until, what, two-thirds of the season had elapsed. Its a hard counterfactual, but I do wonder why it had to take longer.
An easier counterfactual is this year. Costello was very plainly ready early in the year and it was a mistake to return to Chryst. To me, Costellos current flaws appear mostly experience-related i would guess that next year Costello wouldnt miss an open Parkinson in the end zone. If thats an accurate read of Costellos strengths and weaknesses, I think you have to wonder whether the coaches missed an opportunity to nudge him further along the learning curve in the middle part of the season.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - washingtonismoney - 12-29-2017
Yeah, very strange to me to declare Shaws record with his subpar QBs mediocre. In fact, for better or worse, Id say his record with subpar QBs is excellent.
If youre looking to grouse, complaining that Shaws spent *too much time* with mediocre QBs is a much more compelling argument to me.
In 2012, Hogan wasnt introduced until, what, two-thirds of the season had elapsed. Its a hard counterfactual, but I do wonder why it had to take longer.
An easier counterfactual is this year. Costello was very plainly ready early in the year and it was a mistake to return to Chryst. To me, Costellos current flaws appear mostly experience-related i would guess that next year Costello wouldnt miss an open Parkinson in the end zone. If thats an accurate read of Costellos strengths and weaknesses, I think you have to wonder whether the coaches missed an opportunity to nudge him further along the learning curve in the middle part of the season.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - stupac2 - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 02:38 PM)needle link Wrote:When the offense has a chance to go down the field to win the game on the final drive and doesn't gain a yard (net), the criticism is warranted. Last night was worse than Michigan State--but not having Love is an excuse.
Well sure, but the offense also put up 37 points. That really ought to be enough to win...
(12-29-2017, 02:53 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:Yeah, very strange to me to declare Shaws record with his subpar QBs mediocre. In fact, for better or worse, Id say his record with subpar QBs is excellent.
If youre looking to grouse, complaining that Shaws spent *too much time* with mediocre QBs is a much more compelling argument to me.
In 2012, Hogan wasnt introduced until, what, two-thirds of the season had elapsed. Its a hard counterfactual, but I do wonder why it had to take longer.
An easier counterfactual is this year. Costello was very plainly ready early in the year and it was a mistake to return to Chryst. To me, Costellos current flaws appear mostly experience-related i would guess that next year Costello wouldnt miss an open Parkinson in the end zone. If thats an accurate read of Costellos strengths and weaknesses, I think you have to wonder whether the coaches missed an opportunity to nudge him further along the learning curve in the middle part of the season.
Yes. Returning to Chryst after he recovered from his injury was a mistake, and I think it was fairly obvious at the time that it was a mistake. I'd really love to know what the coaches were seeing that made them think Chryst was the answer when Costello was so clearly superior in games. It wasn't like in 2012 or 2016 where we only really had data on one guy and knew that he wasn't very good, we had seen plenty from both and it was obvious that Costello was playing better in games. Puzzling to say the least.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - stupac2 - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 02:38 PM)needle link Wrote:When the offense has a chance to go down the field to win the game on the final drive and doesn't gain a yard (net), the criticism is warranted. Last night was worse than Michigan State--but not having Love is an excuse.
Well sure, but the offense also put up 37 points. That really ought to be enough to win...
(12-29-2017, 02:53 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:Yeah, very strange to me to declare Shaws record with his subpar QBs mediocre. In fact, for better or worse, Id say his record with subpar QBs is excellent.
If youre looking to grouse, complaining that Shaws spent *too much time* with mediocre QBs is a much more compelling argument to me.
In 2012, Hogan wasnt introduced until, what, two-thirds of the season had elapsed. Its a hard counterfactual, but I do wonder why it had to take longer.
An easier counterfactual is this year. Costello was very plainly ready early in the year and it was a mistake to return to Chryst. To me, Costellos current flaws appear mostly experience-related i would guess that next year Costello wouldnt miss an open Parkinson in the end zone. If thats an accurate read of Costellos strengths and weaknesses, I think you have to wonder whether the coaches missed an opportunity to nudge him further along the learning curve in the middle part of the season.
Yes. Returning to Chryst after he recovered from his injury was a mistake, and I think it was fairly obvious at the time that it was a mistake. I'd really love to know what the coaches were seeing that made them think Chryst was the answer when Costello was so clearly superior in games. It wasn't like in 2012 or 2016 where we only really had data on one guy and knew that he wasn't very good, we had seen plenty from both and it was obvious that Costello was playing better in games. Puzzling to say the least.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - winflop - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 02:38 PM)needle link Wrote:When the offense has a chance to go down the field to win the game on the final drive and doesn't gain a yard (net), the criticism is warranted. Last night was worse than Michigan State--but not having Love is an excuse.
Last night was nowhere close to Michigan State, which was an entire half of boneheaded playcalling that culminated in a final series that in reality was just a continuation of what had been happening for at least two quarters.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - winflop - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 02:38 PM)needle link Wrote:When the offense has a chance to go down the field to win the game on the final drive and doesn't gain a yard (net), the criticism is warranted. Last night was worse than Michigan State--but not having Love is an excuse.
Last night was nowhere close to Michigan State, which was an entire half of boneheaded playcalling that culminated in a final series that in reality was just a continuation of what had been happening for at least two quarters.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - Beeg_Dawg - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 03:21 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=needle link=topic=18450.msg219748#msg219748 date=1514583493]
When the offense has a chance to go down the field to win the game on the final drive and doesn't gain a yard (net), the criticism is warranted. Last night was worse than Michigan State--but not having Love is an excuse.
Last night was nowhere close to Michigan State, which was an entire half of boneheaded playcalling that culminated in a final series that in reality was just a continuation of what had been happening for at least two quarters.
[/quote]
A winner in two categories
1) Best summation of the MSU debacle.
2) Fewest words used to capture the feel of the offense - same game.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - Beeg_Dawg - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 03:21 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=needle link=topic=18450.msg219748#msg219748 date=1514583493]
When the offense has a chance to go down the field to win the game on the final drive and doesn't gain a yard (net), the criticism is warranted. Last night was worse than Michigan State--but not having Love is an excuse.
Last night was nowhere close to Michigan State, which was an entire half of boneheaded playcalling that culminated in a final series that in reality was just a continuation of what had been happening for at least two quarters.
[/quote]
A winner in two categories
1) Best summation of the MSU debacle.
2) Fewest words used to capture the feel of the offense - same game.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - gocard14 - 12-29-2017
I dont have too much to complain about from the coaching. As others mentioned we scored 37 on a great D despite Love starting still hurt and leaving in the second half, with some new wrinkles on O. Our D just got pushed around after the first quarter, partially due to injury. Sure I would have loved to see a miracle coaching adjustment that neutralized that, but sometimes your guys are just getting beat.
It took a 93 yard pass and a rare special teams lapse for us to lose to a very good team. Our guys shouldnt hang their heads.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - gocard14 - 12-29-2017
I dont have too much to complain about from the coaching. As others mentioned we scored 37 on a great D despite Love starting still hurt and leaving in the second half, with some new wrinkles on O. Our D just got pushed around after the first quarter, partially due to injury. Sure I would have loved to see a miracle coaching adjustment that neutralized that, but sometimes your guys are just getting beat.
It took a 93 yard pass and a rare special teams lapse for us to lose to a very good team. Our guys shouldnt hang their heads.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - Hurlburt88 - 12-29-2017
I will criticize some specifics, but overall feel that we remain in a (the?) Golden Age of Cardinal football, and really appreciate the players making their 40 year decision with us, and our entire staff. We have discussed many weaknesses this year, thus I'll remain very interested in how this and every recruiting class closes out.Â
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - Hurlburt88 - 12-29-2017
I will criticize some specifics, but overall feel that we remain in a (the?) Golden Age of Cardinal football, and really appreciate the players making their 40 year decision with us, and our entire staff. We have discussed many weaknesses this year, thus I'll remain very interested in how this and every recruiting class closes out.Â
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - JustAnotherFan - 12-29-2017
Does anyone have a count of how many delay of game penalties we've had after a change of possession or coming out of a time out over the past three years? This is something that the coaches should have fixed a long time ago.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - JustAnotherFan - 12-29-2017
Does anyone have a count of how many delay of game penalties we've had after a change of possession or coming out of a time out over the past three years? This is something that the coaches should have fixed a long time ago.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - murky - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 09:21 PM)JustAnotherFan link Wrote:Does anyone have a count of how many delay of game penalties we've had after a change of possession or coming out of a time out over the past three years? This is something that the coaches should have fixed a long time ago.
Seemed like we had fewer delay of games this year than the last couple. I'm conditioned to watch the play clock and yell at the TV to hike the ball. I'm sensitive to it.
When's the last time an opponent had 4 yards in penalties? Those definitely weren't Pac 12 refs out there. I wonder if our guys policed themselves more than necessary considering the lax refs.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - murky - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 09:21 PM)JustAnotherFan link Wrote:Does anyone have a count of how many delay of game penalties we've had after a change of possession or coming out of a time out over the past three years? This is something that the coaches should have fixed a long time ago.
Seemed like we had fewer delay of games this year than the last couple. I'm conditioned to watch the play clock and yell at the TV to hike the ball. I'm sensitive to it.
When's the last time an opponent had 4 yards in penalties? Those definitely weren't Pac 12 refs out there. I wonder if our guys policed themselves more than necessary considering the lax refs.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - BostonCard - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 12:32 PM)phxfan link Wrote:How many of those seven years of success had Andrew Luck or Kevin Hogan at the helm? Those were two QBs with innate abilities to compete and win and that Shaw was unable to enhance or improve upon. His record with any other QB is mediocre at best,
This is one of the odder statements I've ever seen.
Hogan's freshman year: 109/152 (72%), 1096 yards (7.2 ypa), 9 TD's, 3 INT's, PER 148
Hogan's senior year: 206/304 (68%), 2867 yards (9.4 ypa), 27 TD's, 8 INT's, PER 171
Costello's freshman year: 124/211 (59%), 1573 yards (7.5 ypa), 14 TD's, 4 INT's, PER 140
Costello does not have as good a completion percentage as Hogan had, but he is throwing downfield more and is getting more yards per attempt. If Costello can improve his completion percentage to be in the mid-60's, get his ypa in the 8 - 9 range and his PER in the 160's, which are improvements comparable to the ones Hogan made from first to fourth year, he could be among the top 3 QB's in the conference.
As others have shown, Shaw's record with QB's not named Hogan or Luck is better than, say, Mora's record with a QB named Rosen.
BC
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - BostonCard - 12-29-2017
(12-29-2017, 12:32 PM)phxfan link Wrote:How many of those seven years of success had Andrew Luck or Kevin Hogan at the helm? Those were two QBs with innate abilities to compete and win and that Shaw was unable to enhance or improve upon. His record with any other QB is mediocre at best,
This is one of the odder statements I've ever seen.
Hogan's freshman year: 109/152 (72%), 1096 yards (7.2 ypa), 9 TD's, 3 INT's, PER 148
Hogan's senior year: 206/304 (68%), 2867 yards (9.4 ypa), 27 TD's, 8 INT's, PER 171
Costello's freshman year: 124/211 (59%), 1573 yards (7.5 ypa), 14 TD's, 4 INT's, PER 140
Costello does not have as good a completion percentage as Hogan had, but he is throwing downfield more and is getting more yards per attempt. If Costello can improve his completion percentage to be in the mid-60's, get his ypa in the 8 - 9 range and his PER in the 160's, which are improvements comparable to the ones Hogan made from first to fourth year, he could be among the top 3 QB's in the conference.
As others have shown, Shaw's record with QB's not named Hogan or Luck is better than, say, Mora's record with a QB named Rosen.
BC
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - JohnR34231 - 12-30-2017
(12-29-2017, 11:27 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=phxfan link=topic=18450.msg219734#msg219734 date=1514575939]
How many of those seven years of success had Andrew Luck or Kevin Hogan at the helm? Those were two QBs with innate abilities to compete and win and that Shaw was unable to enhance or improve upon. His record with any other QB is mediocre at best,
This is one of the odder statements I've ever seen.
Hogan's freshman year: 109/152 (72%), 1096 yards (7.2 ypa), 9 TD's, 3 INT's, PER 148
Hogan's senior year: 206/304 (68%), 2867 yards (9.4 ypa), 27 TD's, 8 INT's, PER 171
Costello's freshman year: 124/211 (59%), 1573 yards (7.5 ypa), 14 TD's, 4 INT's, PER 140
Costello does not have as good a completion percentage as Hogan had, but he is throwing downfield more and is getting more yards per attempt. If Costello can improve his completion percentage to be in the mid-60's, get his ypa in the 8 - 9 range and his PER in the 160's, which are improvements comparable to the ones Hogan made from first to fourth year, he could be among the top 3 QB's in the conference.
As others have shown, Shaw's record with QB's not named Hogan or Luck is better than, say, Mora's record with a QB named Rosen.
BC
[/quote]
There are certain posters who feel Stanford's offense has certain inherent weaknesses, two of which are its "predictability" and lack of QB development.
Every time we lose a game their knee jerk reaction is to blame those factors.
I think we could lose a game 72-71 and we would still see them.
Re: I feel Shaw bungled the final 1/3 of the game - JohnR34231 - 12-30-2017
(12-29-2017, 11:27 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=phxfan link=topic=18450.msg219734#msg219734 date=1514575939]
How many of those seven years of success had Andrew Luck or Kevin Hogan at the helm? Those were two QBs with innate abilities to compete and win and that Shaw was unable to enhance or improve upon. His record with any other QB is mediocre at best,
This is one of the odder statements I've ever seen.
Hogan's freshman year: 109/152 (72%), 1096 yards (7.2 ypa), 9 TD's, 3 INT's, PER 148
Hogan's senior year: 206/304 (68%), 2867 yards (9.4 ypa), 27 TD's, 8 INT's, PER 171
Costello's freshman year: 124/211 (59%), 1573 yards (7.5 ypa), 14 TD's, 4 INT's, PER 140
Costello does not have as good a completion percentage as Hogan had, but he is throwing downfield more and is getting more yards per attempt. If Costello can improve his completion percentage to be in the mid-60's, get his ypa in the 8 - 9 range and his PER in the 160's, which are improvements comparable to the ones Hogan made from first to fourth year, he could be among the top 3 QB's in the conference.
As others have shown, Shaw's record with QB's not named Hogan or Luck is better than, say, Mora's record with a QB named Rosen.
BC
[/quote]
There are certain posters who feel Stanford's offense has certain inherent weaknesses, two of which are its "predictability" and lack of QB development.
Every time we lose a game their knee jerk reaction is to blame those factors.
I think we could lose a game 72-71 and we would still see them.