The CardBoard
OT: Giants outfield - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: OT: Giants outfield (/thread-15408.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Re: OT: Giants outfield - DC 86 - 01-15-2018

(01-15-2018, 09:12 PM)Mick link Wrote:McCutchen really only plays CF.  Five years ago, he was a Gold Glove outfielder.  Now, maybe slightly better than average.  He does have speed.  Last year, Span had no double plays and two assists.  McCutchen had two double plays and nine assists.  In 10 years, he's played zero games in left and just 13 games in right...all last year.  And didn't do it well.

In 2016 McCutchen recorded -28 DRS (defensive runs saved) with a -18.7 UZR (ultimate zone rating). Statcast ranked him 203rd out of 208 qualifying outfielders.

In 2017 McCutchen was moved to RF but was forced back to CF when Starling Marte was suspended for using PEDs. In 13 games in RF McCutchen recorded +2 DRS, whereas in 139 in CF he recorded -15 DRS (with -4.6 UZR).

McCutchen was certainly a good defensive player in his twenties, but it's highly optimistic to believe that in his thirties he will revert to his younger form, and AT&T's large outfield is not the prescription for his defensive decline. He is certainly a very good addition to the lineup, but the ideal construction would put McCutchen in a corner and a rangy, younger player (e.g. Jarred Dyson) in CF.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-15-2018

My current lineup:

Posey
Panik
McCutchen
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford
Pitcher
Dyson /Hamilton/Duggar/ (or UGH Hernandez)

Posey is the highest OBP/Ave guy they have. And if the speed guy hits 9th you can hit and run with Posey cause he makes contact. Plus doing that helps offset his biggest offensive weakness - the double play ball. Yeah he can’t run. But he’s a smart base runner at least. Plus he’s their best hitter. So get him the most AB’s. Having McCutheon and Longoria allows them to take Posey out of the middle of the order.  To me he’s their best option at leadoff.

I’d love Hamilton if they can get him fairly cheap. He takes care of the OF problem - no one covers more ground.  And he steals bases  His OBP is way too low, however,  to lead him off. He’s wasted at 8 as his speed on the bases is his greatest offensive asset. So 9 makes sense.





Re: OT: Giants outfield - BobK - 01-15-2018

Why Dyson  who will be 34 this year ?



Re: OT: Giants outfield - DC 86 - 01-15-2018

(01-15-2018, 10:03 PM)BobK link Wrote:Why Dyson  who will be 34 this year ?

True, he is not young, but still covers a lot of ground and would be a good, inexpensive stopgap until Duggar is ready. Certainly Cain would be superior but all reports are that SF is not in on him.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - BobK - 01-15-2018

Dyson like McCutcheon is a Free Agent after this season. 

Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-15-2018

Great outfielder. Relatively cheap. Projected 2 years 12 million. Gorkys could play Center versus lefties. Dyson is a platoon guy.

But yeah, I’d prefer younger. Would like Hamilton. But I saw a rumor that Reds want Heliot Ramos for Hamilton. That’s easy. NO FLIPPING WAY!

Cain costly. Not only about 70 mill for 4 years, but he got a qualifying offer from Royals. So he’d cost the Giants their second and fifth top zzz Rule 4 picks and a million in international pool money. I like Cain. A lot. But he will be 32. And that is a lot to give up.

McCutheon will be on a corner.  Probably right. Pence moves to left.

(01-15-2018, 10:03 PM)BobK link Wrote:Why Dyson  who will be 34 this year ?


Re: OT: Giants outfield - Phogge - 01-16-2018

These guys still available:
Floyd Wicker
Steve Whitaker
Randy Elliott
Gary Thomasson
Steve Ontiveros
Carl Boles

Unless they are dead.


Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-16-2018

(01-15-2018, 10:37 PM)BobK link Wrote:Dyson like McCutcheon is a Free Agent after this season.

I anticipate, per usual, a career year from McCutchen.  Or at least a career-effort year.  McCutchen is only 31.  He has to think he's got one more great contract  in him.  BTW, the Giants also got $2.5 million in the McCutchen trade and gave up $500k in the international bonus pool (that they weren't likely to use before July anyway).

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-16-2018

(01-15-2018, 09:40 PM)lex24 link Wrote:My current lineup:

Posey
Panik
McCutchen
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford
Pitcher
Dyson /Hamilton/Duggar/ (or UGH Hernandez)

Posey is the highest OBP/Ave guy they have. And if the speed guy hits 9th you can hit and run with Posey cause he makes contact. Plus doing that helps offset his biggest offensive weakness - the double play ball. Yeah he can’t run. But he’s a smart base runner at least. Plus he’s their best hitter. So get him the most AB’s. Having McCutheon and Longoria allows them to take Posey out of the middle of the order.  To me he’s their best option at leadoff.

I’d love Hamilton if they can get him fairly cheap. He takes care of the OF problem - no one covers more ground.  And he steals bases  His OBP is way too low, however,  to lead him off. He’s wasted at 8 as his speed on the bases is his greatest offensive asset. So 9 makes sense.

Great idea, Posey at leadoff.  I don't think it will happen, flouts baseball "wisdom" too much, but it would take the pressure off of him to hit for power.  His OBP could really soar.  And I think you could count on a record number of double plays.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-16-2018

(01-15-2018, 11:25 PM)lex24 link Wrote:Great outfielder. Relatively cheap. Projected 2 years 12 million. Gorkys could play Center versus lefties. Dyson is a platoon guy.

But yeah, I’d prefer younger. Would like Hamilton. But I saw a rumor that Reds want Heliot Ramos for Hamilton. That’s easy. NO FLIPPING WAY!

Cain costly. Not only about 70 mill for 4 years, but he got a qualifying offer from Royals. So he’d cost the Giants their second and fifth top zzz Rule 4 picks and a million in international pool money. I like Cain. A lot. But he will be 32. And that is a lot to give up.

McCutheon will be on a corner.  Probably right. Pence moves to left.

[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221487#msg221487 date=1516079036]
Why Dyson  who will be 34 this year ?
[/quote]

I really had hoped it would be Stanford's Austin Slater in the outfield.  His line was pretty good for a 24 year old rookie (.282/.339/.402/.740).  Too early to tell in fielding, but he should add power and obviously he's comparatively cheap.  He played all the outfield positions (had three outs in 3 1/3 innings in CF -- maybe he should be the CF), but played most in LF.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - qwerty49 - 01-16-2018

Bochy (assuming he doesn’t retire) is way too by-the-book to bat Posey leadoff. He did put Pence there a little, but Pence has some speed.

If they don’t get a true CF they’ll give Hernandez a shot in spring training and if he can hit, he starts and leads off.

This is a vastly improved lineup - last year they had Crawford hitting 5th and sometimes cleanup.

My guess:

CF (Hernandez or someone else)
Panik
Posey
McCutcheon
Belt
Longoria
Crawford
Pence
P

When Posey is out, everybody else moves up and the C bats 8th or 9th, depending if Bum is pitching.

They might flip Crawford and Pence, since if Pence hits 8th he might lead the league in K’s, swinging at everything in sight after he takes his usual called strike one over the outside corner.



(01-16-2018, 04:43 AM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221486#msg221486 date=1516077659]
My current lineup:

Posey
Panik
McCutchen
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford
Pitcher
Dyson /Hamilton/Duggar/ (or UGH Hernandez)

Posey is the highest OBP/Ave guy they have. And if the speed guy hits 9th you can hit and run with Posey cause he makes contact. Plus doing that helps offset his biggest offensive weakness - the double play ball. Yeah he can’t run. But he’s a smart base runner at least. Plus he’s their best hitter. So get him the most AB’s. Having McCutheon and Longoria allows them to take Posey out of the middle of the order.  To me he’s their best option at leadoff.

I’d love Hamilton if they can get him fairly cheap. He takes care of the OF problem - no one covers more ground.  And he steals bases  His OBP is way too low, however,  to lead him off. He’s wasted at 8 as his speed on the bases is his greatest offensive asset. So 9 makes sense.

Great idea, Posey at leadoff.  I don't think it will happen, flouts baseball "wisdom" too much, but it would take the pressure off of him to hit for power.  His OBP could really soar.  And I think you could count on a record number of double plays.
[/quote]

Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-16-2018

Hernandez has proven that he can’t hit. At best he’s a fourth OF. Probably a 5th. He could platoon if they pick up Dyson. Or if Parker stays in the mix. Which is not a happy thought

They need one more outfielder. If they could get Hamilton without giving up Shaw, Beede, Ramos or Duggar that would work. The Reds had success with Duval - who many thought was a AAAA guy.  Maybe they could do the same with Williamson.  Parker is too old to trade.

Hamilton brings so much defense.


(01-16-2018, 08:12 AM)qwerty49 link Wrote:Bochy (assuming he doesn’t retire) is way too by-the-book to bat Posey leadoff. He did put Pence there a little, but Pence has some speed.

If they don’t get a true CF they’ll give Hernandez a shot in spring training and if he can hit, he starts and leads off.

This is a vastly improved lineup - last year they had Crawford hitting 5th and sometimes cleanup.

My guess:

CF (Hernandez or someone else)
Panik
Posey
McCutcheon
Belt
Longoria
Crawford
Pence
P

When Posey is out, everybody else moves up and the C bats 8th or 9th, depending if Bum is pitching.

They might flip Crawford and Pence, since if Pence hits 8th he might lead the league in K’s, swinging at everything in sight after he takes his usual called strike one over the outside corner.



[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221501#msg221501 date=1516103012]
[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221486#msg221486 date=1516077659]
My current lineup:

Posey
Panik
McCutchen
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford
Pitcher
Dyson /Hamilton/Duggar/ (or UGH Hernandez)

Posey is the highest OBP/Ave guy they have. And if the speed guy hits 9th you can hit and run with Posey cause he makes contact. Plus doing that helps offset his biggest offensive weakness - the double play ball. Yeah he can’t run. But he’s a smart base runner at least. Plus he’s their best hitter. So get him the most AB’s. Having McCutheon and Longoria allows them to take Posey out of the middle of the order.  To me he’s their best option at leadoff.

I’d love Hamilton if they can get him fairly cheap. He takes care of the OF problem - no one covers more ground.  And he steals bases  His OBP is way too low, however,  to lead him off. He’s wasted at 8 as his speed on the bases is his greatest offensive asset. So 9 makes sense.

Great idea, Posey at leadoff.  I don't think it will happen, flouts baseball "wisdom" too much, but it would take the pressure off of him to hit for power.  His OBP could really soar.  And I think you could count on a record number of double plays.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-16-2018

(01-16-2018, 08:51 AM)lex24 link Wrote:Hernandez has proven that he can’t hit. At best he’s a fourth OF. Probably a 5th. He could platoon if they pick up Dyson. Or if Parker stays in the mix. Which is not a happy thought

They need one more outfielder. If they could get Hamilton without giving up Shaw, Beede, Ramos or Duggar that would work. The Reds had success with Duval - who many thought was a AAAA guy.  Maybe they could do the same with Williamson.  Parker is too old to trade.

Hamilton brings so much defense.


[quote author=qwerty49 link=topic=18541.msg221513#msg221513 date=1516115557]
Bochy (assuming he doesn’t retire) is way too by-the-book to bat Posey leadoff. He did put Pence there a little, but Pence has some speed.

If they don’t get a true CF they’ll give Hernandez a shot in spring training and if he can hit, he starts and leads off.

This is a vastly improved lineup - last year they had Crawford hitting 5th and sometimes cleanup.

My guess:

CF (Hernandez or someone else)
Panik
Posey
McCutcheon
Belt
Longoria
Crawford
Pence
P

When Posey is out, everybody else moves up and the C bats 8th or 9th, depending if Bum is pitching.

They might flip Crawford and Pence, since if Pence hits 8th he might lead the league in K’s, swinging at everything in sight after he takes his usual called strike one over the outside corner.



[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221501#msg221501 date=1516103012]
[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221486#msg221486 date=1516077659]
My current lineup:

Posey
Panik
McCutchen
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford
Pitcher
Dyson /Hamilton/Duggar/ (or UGH Hernandez)

Posey is the highest OBP/Ave guy they have. And if the speed guy hits 9th you can hit and run with Posey cause he makes contact. Plus doing that helps offset his biggest offensive weakness - the double play ball. Yeah he can’t run. But he’s a smart base runner at least. Plus he’s their best hitter. So get him the most AB’s. Having McCutheon and Longoria allows them to take Posey out of the middle of the order.  To me he’s their best option at leadoff.

I’d love Hamilton if they can get him fairly cheap. He takes care of the OF problem - no one covers more ground.  And he steals bases  His OBP is way too low, however,  to lead him off. He’s wasted at 8 as his speed on the bases is his greatest offensive asset. So 9 makes sense.

Great idea, Posey at leadoff.  I don't think it will happen, flouts baseball "wisdom" too much, but it would take the pressure off of him to hit for power.  His OBP could really soar.  And I think you could count on a record number of double plays.
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

The problem with Venezuelan Hernandez is that he's a warm weather hitter.  In April/March/May/Sept/Oct, he hit .175.  In June/July/August, he hit .325.  .229 in the first half, .281 in the second half.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - BobK - 01-16-2018

Bochy just said Pence in LF McCutcheon in RF

Re: OT: Giants outfield - DC 86 - 01-16-2018

(01-16-2018, 02:57 PM)Mick link Wrote:The problem with Venezuelan Hernandez is that he's a warm weather hitter.  In April/March/May/Sept/Oct, he hit .175.  In June/July/August, he hit .325.  .229 in the first half, .281 in the second half.

This was true in 2017. However, in his cumulative previous MLB career (2012-2016) he hit .156 in June/July/August and .240 in the other months.

Sample sizes for both 2012-2016 (215 at bats) and 2017 (310 at bats) are small enough to render this all meaningless anyway.

And September is the warmest month of the year in San Francisco according to weather services, with an average temperature of 71.3 degrees.

The problem with Hernandez is that he is basically a 30 year old career minor leaguer who had a brief hot streak, he can be useful but only in a limited role. He hit an empty .255 last year: .326 slugging percentage.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - gocard14 - 01-16-2018

I don’t expect any more signigifcant signings at this point. The money from the cutch deal puts them about 2.5 mil below the luxury tax. My understanding is that the goal is to stay under the tax line this year and reset the clock, so that we can be spendy in next years excellent free agent class if the current roster looks like it’s a piece or two away without paying a repeater tax. We need some space going into the year for call ups, etc. so I think we may be done for now.

Even with a platoon at CF this has the potential to be a very good team between the combination of the additions and progression to the mean after last years dumpster fire. Or all our old players could get injured and it could be another disaster. Should be fun to watch!

Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-16-2018

Heard that. I figured that was coming. It could help Pence physically quite a bit. RF is so tough at AT&T. Left, not so much.

(01-16-2018, 03:30 PM)BobK link Wrote:Bochy just said Pence in LF McCutcheon in RF


Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-16-2018

You may be right. But I hope not. They still have a massive hole in CF.

(01-16-2018, 05:08 PM)gocard14 link Wrote:I don’t expect any more signigifcant signings at this point. The money from the cutch deal puts them about 2.5 mil below the luxury tax. My understanding is that the goal is to stay under the tax line this year and reset the clock, so that we can be spendy in next years excellent free agent class if the current roster looks like it’s a piece or two away without paying a repeater tax. We need some space going into the year for call ups, etc. so I think we may be done for now.

Even with a platoon at CF this has the potential to be a very good team between the combination of the additions and progression to the mean after last years dumpster fire. Or all our old players could get injured and it could be another disaster. Should be fun to watch!


Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-18-2018

(01-16-2018, 10:52 PM)lex24 link Wrote:You may be right. But I hope not. They still have a massive hole in CF.

[quote author=gocard14 link=topic=18541.msg221569#msg221569 date=1516147729]
I don’t expect any more signigifcant signings at this point. The money from the cutch deal puts them about 2.5 mil below the luxury tax. My understanding is that the goal is to stay under the tax line this year and reset the clock, so that we can be spendy in next years excellent free agent class if the current roster looks like it’s a piece or two away without paying a repeater tax. We need some space going into the year for call ups, etc. so I think we may be done for now.

Even with a platoon at CF this has the potential to be a very good team between the combination of the additions and progression to the mean after last years dumpster fire. Or all our old players could get injured and it could be another disaster. Should be fun to watch!
[/quote]

The knucklehead running the Giants confirmed today that if they don't make a deal, it will be Duggar.  They have $2 million left for three remaining roster spots.

Quick review of Duggar: batted .261 in 13 games for the River Cats last year, his only 13 games in AAA.  For comparison purposes, Mac Williamson batted .249 for that team before he came to the Giants, Jarrett Parker batted .275 in the same situation. 

Duggar's line in AAA: .261/.370/.413/.783.  Has a lot of range, makes comparatively few errors.  Supposed to be fast, stole 7 bases in 7 tries last year in San Jose, but was 3 for 5 in AAA.

His fall ball batting line: .263/.367/.421/.788.

Not super filled with confidence here.


Re: OT: Giants outfield - BobK - 01-18-2018

So you say Dugger walks a fair amount.  That’s good 😀