Baseball winter meetings - Printable Version
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RE: Baseball winter meetings - cardcrimson - 12-13-2019
(12-13-2019, 05:40 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-13-2019, 09:57 AM)Phogge Wrote: What a haul for Farhanburger. Three day vacation for staff at a resort and they come away with a 3-9 starter and a kid infielder the Angels “let” get away.
And they did not hurt little Stevie Duggar’s feelings.
I really like your term, the very disrespectful Farhanburger. Great, great nickname, particularly for an MIT/UCBerkeley PhD who worked for Moneyball Billy Beane and drove the A's success, then was hired by the Dodgers as GM, then:
a) Took the Dodgers to their first World Series in 27 years in 2017.
b) Took the Dodgers to the World Series again in 2018.
c) Won 106 games this year.
Totally with you man. I long for the days of 98 and 89 losses, when the Giants owned, absolutely owned the basement. Doggone Farhanburger messing that up. He clearly doesn't know how to build a team. I mean getting a kid infielder who was the #15 overall pick in the draft last year, what the hell was Farhanburger thinking? And getting a 2017 All-Star shortstop. Jeez, Farhan is an idiot. And non-tendering the superb Kevin Pillar, hero of heroes -- sure, he strikes out all the time and can't field, but come on! 21 Home runs in just 645 at bats. And we could have had the second worst OBP player in the NL at just 31 years old for a mere $10 million! Idiot rebuilding Farhan...
Farhanberger's story:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26544614/how-farhan-zaidi-left-berkeley-became-baseball-pioneer
But does a Farhanburger come with a side of garlic fries?
lex24 - lex24 - 12-13-2019
I like Farhan, Mick. Want him to succeed. I’m just not into the analytics cool-aid full bore. And he lost me a bit with the Kapler hire. He certainly was part of what the Dodgers built. But not the main guy. Beane is the most overrated sports exec in history. He’s treated as if he’s some kind of Svengali. Yet he’s made a slew of mistakes. One brobdingnagian one - trading Cespedas- that may have cost the As a WS shot. Course I’m happy for that cause the Giants stepped in and grabbed it.
The Wilson move may turn out great. They simply bought him by taking on Cozarts salary. (I’ll be very surprised if Cozart ever swings a bat in a regular season game with the Giants) And the Angels wanted to free up some money for Rendon etc. But Wilson also did not perform well in his first minor league experience. And the Angels may have decided he isn’t going to do much.
I appreciate analytics are part of the game now. But I’d like to see some balance. I look at who they hired as a coaching staff and it’s all a bunch of analytic based kids for the most part. Well not kids but you know what I mean. I would’ve liked to have seen at least a couple old all timers who have the experience the eyes the gut etc. It’s not strat-o-matic or APBA. No matter how much the mathematicians want us to believe it is.
. And by the way those guys of had the last couple of lousy seasons also brought us the best period of SF Giants baseball ever. Still, I hope Farhan succeeds.
BTW- I heard BamBam Meulens made some comment about age discrimination. Interesting. Not one of the new hires is 40. I guess there’s no room for experience on this staff.
I expect 2020 to be very rough. But if they keep developing the minor leagues and looks like there’s a couple young players who develop throughout the course of the season I’ll be happy. But come 2021 it’ll be time to start showing a little something. So I want Farhan to succeed and I’m rooting for him. But I also understand why some of the folks who watch baseball forever get a little tired of reading about WAR, Spin Rates and launch angles. I sure as hell do. Be nice to see a well executed hit run once in a while. But that really shows my age!
(12-13-2019, 05:40 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-13-2019, 09:57 AM)Phogge Wrote: What a haul for Farhanburger. Three day vacation for staff at a resort and they come away with a 3-9 starter and a kid infielder the Angels “let” get away.
And they did not hurt little Stevie Duggar’s feelings.
I really like your term, the very disrespectful Farhanburger. Great, great nickname, particularly for an MIT/UCBerkeley PhD who worked for Moneyball Billy Beane and drove the A's success, then was hired by the Dodgers as GM, then:
a) Took the Dodgers to their first World Series in 27 years in 2017.
b) Took the Dodgers to the World Series again in 2018.
c) Won 106 games this year.
Totally with you man. I long for the days of 98 and 89 losses, when the Giants owned, absolutely owned the basement. Doggone Farhanburger messing that up. He clearly doesn't know how to build a team. I mean getting a kid infielder who was the #15 overall pick in the draft last year, what the hell was Farhanburger thinking? And getting a 2017 All-Star shortstop. Jeez, Farhan is an idiot. And non-tendering the superb Kevin Pillar, hero of heroes -- sure, he strikes out all the time and can't field, but come on! 21 Home runs in just 645 at bats. And we could have had the second worst OBP player in the NL at just 31 years old for a mere $10 million! Idiot rebuilding Farhan...
Farhanberger's story:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26544614/how-farhan-zaidi-left-berkeley-became-baseball-pioneer
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Phogge - 12-14-2019
I live my life by the seat of my pants. Every day is exciting.
I have a feeling that an exciting day for Farhan is reading his Fastrack bill, reordering his sock drawer and listening to Bill James life story on his Kindle.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - qwerty49 - 12-14-2019
(12-14-2019, 12:34 AM)Phogge Wrote: I live my life by the seat of my pants. Every day is exciting.
My father-in-law had that problem. Fortunately Medicare covered his Depends.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Phogge - 12-14-2019
Not quite yet Q.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - DC 86 - 12-15-2019
(12-12-2019, 08:07 PM)Mick Wrote: 1) Bumgarner wants 5 years at $120 million. Giants (and no one else, so far) want to pay it. Bum may take a shorter deal with a higher average annual value.
Signed for 5 years / $85 million with the Diamondbacks, according to ESPN.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - BobK - 12-15-2019
But we kept the money for Cozart. Just couldn’t keep Bum. I so hate these moves.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-15-2019
Kind of a strange place for Bum to land. Great hitters park and not a contender. The mathematicians that now run baseball decided Wheeler was more valuable. We shall see. All right know is if I’m a contender and I can choose between starting Bumgarner or Wheeler in a big game, the choice is pretty damn easy.
I also don’t think Bumgarner wanted anything to do with Kapler.
RE: lex24 - DC 86 - 12-15-2019
(12-15-2019, 04:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: I also don’t think Bumgarner wanted anything to do with Kapler.
According to The Athletic he wanted nothing to do with the Giants best offer of 4 years, $70 million.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Phogge - 12-15-2019
Simple. Farhan didn’t want him. Hope he is happy with his coconut analytics.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-16-2019
Kapler didn’t even meet with him. That they made a half-assed offer only provides cover. It’s going to be interesting to see how Posey, Crawford, Cueto, Samardzija and Belt deal with Mr. Coconut Oil. Not to mention the Diaper Dudes coaching staff.
quote="DC 86" pid='264795' dateline='1576467019']
(12-15-2019, 04:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: I also don’t think Bumgarner wanted anything to do with Kapler.
According to The Athletic he wanted nothing to do with the Giants best offer of 4 years, $70 million.
[/quote]
RE: Baseball winter meetings - OutsiderFan - 12-16-2019
If the Giants offered Bumgarner 4 years for $70M, they were giving more per year than the D-Backs. Disappointing to see him go, but he's projected to be just about a 4 ERA and below .500 pitcher this season, with his highest WHIP ever. It probably gets worse after that, unless he re-invents himself. But even if he plateaus there, is a .500 pitcher worth $17M/yr? You could say he is an innings eater, but it sure seems to me the trend in MLB is for starters to throw fewer innings, Manfred's stupid 3-batter minimum B.S. be damned.
I'm fine with the draft pick and having the extra cash to spend in other areas, all things considered.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Giants - 12-16-2019
As much as I hate to see Bumgarner move on, I am pleased to see the Giants stop giving five (or more) year deals to legacy players. The situation in which SF currently finds itself was created by awarding long term extensions to guys who have been unable to produce at levels commensurate with the contracts they received. Heck, even four years to MB would have been a stretch.
(12-16-2019, 06:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If the Giants offered Bumgarner 4 years for $70M, they were giving more per year than the D-Backs. Disappointing to see him go, but he's projected to be just about a 4 ERA and below .500 pitcher this season, with his highest WHIP ever. It probably gets worse after that, unless he re-invents himself. But even if he plateaus there, is a .500 pitcher worth $17M/yr? You could say he is an innings eater, but it sure seems to me the trend in MLB is for starters to throw fewer innings, Manfred's stupid 3-batter minimum B.S. be damned.
I'm fine with the draft pick and having the extra cash to spend in other areas, all things considered.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Phogge - 12-16-2019
Except that Bum was still delivering in 2019. Belt and Crawford were in stink mode the past season.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Mick - 12-16-2019
(12-16-2019, 09:04 AM)Giants Wrote: As much as I hate to see Bumgarner move on, I am pleased to see the Giants stop giving five (or more) year deals to legacy players. The situation in which SF currently finds itself was created by awarding long term extensions to guys who have been unable to produce at levels commensurate with the contracts they received. Heck, even four years to MB would have been a stretch.
(12-16-2019, 06:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If the Giants offered Bumgarner 4 years for $70M, they were giving more per year than the D-Backs. Disappointing to see him go, but he's projected to be just about a 4 ERA and below .500 pitcher this season, with his highest WHIP ever. It probably gets worse after that, unless he re-invents himself. But even if he plateaus there, is a .500 pitcher worth $17M/yr? You could say he is an innings eater, but it sure seems to me the trend in MLB is for starters to throw fewer innings, Manfred's stupid 3-batter minimum B.S. be damned.
I'm fine with the draft pick and having the extra cash to spend in other areas, all things considered.
Completely agree with both of you. Bum has come off of three years, two of which were wildly subpar. Hasn't been an All-Star in four years. WHIP and ERA took a precipitous jump. Our GM -- whose most recent team won 106, 92 and 104 games in the last three seasons -- has judged MadBum not worth it. I'm very much inclined to agree. It's painful for me to see Crawford and Posey play now.
BTW, I think Bum is going to get shredded this year in that pitcher's park.
(12-16-2019, 09:42 AM)Phogge Wrote: Except that Bum was still delivering in 2019. Belt and Crawford were in stink mode the past season.
This last season, Bum had a 2.93 ERA and a 0.929 WHIP at Oracle. He had a 5.84 ERA and a 1.297 WHIP at Chase Field (Diamondbacks home stadium).
2020 is going to be very entertaining for Bumgarner.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - OutsiderFan - 12-16-2019
The disparity between Bumgarner's home and away performance the last two seasons is quite alarming. And it got worse from 2018 to 2019. The D-Backs must think they will be giving him more run support than the Giants. Will be interesting to see what spot in the rotation he takes. Hard to believe it will be #1.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Mick - 12-16-2019
(12-15-2019, 04:37 PM)BobK Wrote: But we kept the money for Cozart. Just couldn’t keep Bum. I so hate these moves.
I don't think we kept the money for Cozart. We took on the last year of his contract to get the #15 overall pick in last year's draft. Did you mean Gausman? We got him for 1 year for $9 million, half of a single year's worth of Bum's new contract.
Pillar is still a free agent. I don't know why anyone hasn't picked him up yet.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Giants - 12-16-2019
A quick review of AZ’s roster indicates Bumgarner will be the #1 (assuming Robbie Ray is traded, as has been rumored).
What I am looking forward to is watching Bumgarner increase his HR total. Chase Field will give him plenty of opportunities to hit the long ball.
(12-16-2019, 09:53 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The disparity between Bumgarner's home and away performance the last two seasons is quite alarming. And it got worse from 2018 to 2019. The D-Backs must think they will be giving him more run support than the Giants. Will be interesting to see what spot in the rotation he takes. Hard to believe it will be #1.
I will be surprised if Cozart is on the 26 man roster coming out of spring training. As for Pillar, maybe the reason that he hasn’t been snapped up is the same reason SF let him go. He is not an “on base” guy and that is a paramount stat in this era.
(12-16-2019, 10:00 AM)Mick Wrote:(12-15-2019, 04:37 PM)BobK Wrote: But we kept the money for Cozart. Just couldn’t keep Bum. I so hate these moves.
I don't think we kept the money for Cozart. We took on the last year of his contract to get the #15 overall pick in last year's draft. Did you mean Gausman? We got him for 1 year for $9 million, half of a single year's worth of Bum's new contract.
Pillar is still a free agent. I don't know why anyone hasn't picked him up yet.
RE: Baseball winter meetings - Mick - 12-16-2019
Fun facts (not facts):
Bumgarner chose Arizona so he could be close to his horses.
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/madison-bumgarner-wanted-to-play-in-arizona-because-of-his-horses-605151.html
Chris Heston comeback? Maybe... In 2015, he was the first rookie starter since Matt Cain in 2006 to have 10 wins. He also had a no-hitter:
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/chris-heston-eyeing-comeback-following-2019-shoulder-surgery-605123.html
RE: Baseball winter meetings - qwerty49 - 12-16-2019
Did anyone really believe that Bum would re-sign with the Giants? I didn't.
Time to move on.
BTW the buzz around the Hot Stove League is that Phogge is available for considerably less than 85 million.