WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT

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RE: WBB: Stanford @ Colorado ON NOW PAC-12 BAY AREA - TheFarm07 - 01-17-2021

A loss to a team with a losing record. Very disappointing. Too many mistakes that bit us in the end. I've been saying, little mistakes even in wins can become habits and they can come back to haunt you in the future. Forcing the ball when nothing was there.

We battled and Anna really came up with some clutch defensive plays, but frustrating to lose to a .500 team after beating 3 top 25 teams so far.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Colorado ON NOW PAC-12 BAY AREA - JohnR34231 - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 02:00 PM)martyup Wrote: OT tied up with 2:02 to play. Lexie going to the line to shoot 2.

We're down by 2 with 41 seconds to play. CO with the ball.

We get the steal but Wilson can make the bunny under basket to tie the game. We've got the ball with 3.8 seconds to play and we trail by 3.

Lexie misses the 3. Her shot was blocked. Beat by the Buffalo girls. Dammit!

Beaten by a 5-6 team. Sure didn't expect that.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Colorado ON NOW PAC-12 BAY AREA - PVTree - 01-17-2021

Didn't watch the game on TV, just followed on gamecast.

Don't know if we were:
-over confident
-played very poorly
-had a bad game plan
-refs hosed us
-Colorado played like the Jordan Bulls

But I hate losing games to clearly overmatched teams. I really thought we could be undefeated going into the NCAA tourney.

Maddening loss.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Colorado ON NOW PAC-12 BAY AREA - TheFarm07 - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 02:21 PM)PVTree Wrote: Didn't watch the game on TV, just followed on gamecast.

Don't know if we were:
-over confident
-played very poorly
-had a bad game plan
-refs hosed us
-Colorado played like the Jordan Bulls

But I hate losing games to clearly overmatched teams. I really thought we could be undefeated going into the NCAA tourney.

Maddening loss.

Very frustrating loss. Yes, Colorado has played us tight in recent years, but we also shot ourselves in the foot too many times in the game.

The only silver lining is that Tara will have a lot of game tape to show to the team to improve. I am hoping they will closely study these errors and correct them.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - 81alum - 01-17-2021

Disappointing to be sure, but in our best seasons Tara usually takes advantage of one or two losses to improve the team.

Payne knows how to disrupt our offense--particularly when the refs call the game loosely on the inside. They let a lot of contact go inside. They let more go when done by Colorado than when done by Stanford.

The game turned on

1) free throws and fouls. We got 9 points out of our free throws, they got 15.

2) three point shooting. Their freshman Foremann was all she was advertised to be--going 3/4 from long range. Meanwhile, Williams was 1/6, and we shot only 23% from long range.

So many other categories were even. Surprisingly even.

Our defense was probably the biggest letdown. We could not adequately defend Hollingshed, who had a career night with 32 points.

And Belibi was either hurt or simply ineffective, disappearing from the game.

Still, we will bounce back and the team will be better for having these issues exposed now rather than later. Kiss that #1 ranking goodbye for a while, at least.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - BobK - 01-17-2021

Poor shooting with the short shots.
They really hustled didn’t. Except Bronk on two dives
Poor poor poor rebounding.

Ucla with the one point OT win

Well we all need a wake up periodically. Maybe we really understand what has to be done.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Colorado ON NOW PAC-12 BAY AREA - jonnyss - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 02:00 PM)martyup Wrote: OT tied up with 2:02 to play. Lexie going to the line to shoot 2.

We're down by 2 with 41 seconds to play. CO with the ball.

We get the steal but Wilson can make the bunny under basket to tie the game. We've got the ball with 3.8 seconds to play and we trail by 3.

Lexie misses the 3. Her shot was blocked. Beat by the Buffalo girls. Dammit!

lexie was also bumped hard just after she released. another clear foul by colorado not called by the refs. (but not as bad as the no-call in the kc cleveland game a few minutes ago)

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - chimera - 01-17-2021

I am going out to enjoy the nice weather and forget about this one. But first, my main thought is congrats to CO. They had us scouted very well, were very disruptive, and kept us from running in transition. I thought our effort on the boards was poor relative to what we have been. Too many silly plays throughout the course of the game too, bad shot selection, turnovers at the wrong time, etc. Refs did suck, but this was a very winnable game anyway. If Sherrod does not steal that inbounds we probably win.

Three point shooting was not good, and theirs was very good. Our post game suffered. Way too many passes to the bigs were picked off and way too much dribbling by bigs who got the ball too far from the basket. Our assists were low compared to usual. Basically they scouted us well and we did not run our offense well at all, nor did we defend them very well, though to their credit CO made some tough shots, especially Hollingshed.

I guess we owed them an L from last season. Icky game.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - Spiny_Norman - 01-17-2021

Stanford 0-8 from the field in OT. That won't get it done.

At the end of regulation, Jones passed up a shot at the free throw line, took a dribble and still had room to shoot, but passed that up to dribble into traffic and a contested shot. Did not make sense to me. It was also frustrating to watch Wilson get trapped at the basket on a fast break after a steal and try to shoot through 2 defenders. She could have dished off to Brink or Jones who were trailing the play. Colorado played better and smarter. They earned that win. The mystery is how they were only 3-5 in conference before this game.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - TheFarm07 - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 02:44 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Stanford 0-8 from the field in OT. That won't get it done.

At the end of regulation, Jones passed up a shot at the free throw line, took a dribble and still had room to shoot, but passed that up to dribble into traffic and a contested shot. Did not make sense to me. It was also frustrating to watch Wilson get trapped at the basket on a fast break after a steal and try to shoot through 2 defenders. She could have dished off to Brink or Jones who were trailing the play. Colorado played better and smarter. They earned that win. The mystery is how they were only 3-5 in conference before this game.

Exactly, these decisions just made me want to pull my hair out (and I just got a haircut this morning, so there's not much left). You're not Breanna Stewart or LeBron James and have mismatches against any defender pretty much. We made mistakes and Colorado rightly made us pay for them.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - old spanish trail - 01-17-2021

[quote="Spiny_Norman" pid='305332' dateline='1610919878']
Stanford 0-8 from the field in OT. That won't get it done.

At the end of regulation, Jones passed up a shot at the free throw line, took a dribble and still had room to shoot, but passed that up to dribble into traffic and a contested shot. Did not make sense to me. It was also frustrating to watch Wilson get trapped at the basket on a fast break after a steal and try to shoot through 2 defenders. She could have dished off to Brink or Jones who were trailing the play. Colorado played better and smarter. They earned that win. The mystery is how they were only 3-5 in conference before this game.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Agree, Spiny; they looked much better than a 3-5 team. And, they earned the win. It appeared some calls were missed out here in tv land for both teams, maybe slightly not in our favor. But, it's silly to complain about the refs. They did not lose the game. We did. When Ki goes 0-6 from 3 we will have trouble in a number of games. Imagine they are tired from playing in the sky for two straight games. Hollingshead had the game of her life and the frosh was excellent too. Several of ours underperformed. Game, set match. Undefeated was nice while it lasted.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - RuralFan - 01-17-2021

Stanford looked like a team that hasn't been home in over a month, that eats meals alone in strange hotel rooms, and that has extra long Q-tips stuffed up their noses on a daily basis. And for all this, they get paid absolutely nothing.

Time to go back to Stanford.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - Phogge - 01-17-2021

Time to get paid.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - Softball Fan - 01-17-2021

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-women/article/2021-01-17/colorado-stuns-no-1-stanford-77-72-overtime-first-ever-win-against-top-ranked

I felt there should have been some defensive adjustment in the second half guarding Hollingshed. Either work harder to deny her the ball or make her shoot under more stress. She made too many shots that were relatively uncontested.

I have to put some responsibility on the coaching staff for not making some defensive changes in the second half. And yes I know Tara has won NCAA championships and I've won none. I believe I still can express an opinion on a sports message board.

I actually think it is better going into the NCAA tournament with a loss rather than being undefeated. The team now knows after the first round they can be beat and the tournament ends there for them.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - jonnyss - 01-17-2021

some of the errors are on tara. the pass that was stolen (and taken the distance) in the last minute was inbounded by anna. imo not our first choice for a crucial inbounds play certain to be contested. why not our best passer, haley? or kiana? or bring in jana. for that matter, why not sub anna out for offense in the last minute and back in for her fabulous defense? if unguarded, she can shoot 3's but she's not a creator.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - mbdude - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 05:32 PM)jonnyss Wrote: some of the errors are on tara. the pass that was stolen (and taken the distance) in the last minute was inbounded by anna. imo not our first choice for a crucial inbounds play certain to be contested. why not our best passer, haley? or kiana? or bring in jana. for that matter, why not sub anna out for offense in the last minute and back in for her fabulous defense? if unguarded, she can shoot 3's but she's not a creator.

Steal was as much on kiana - too casual, didn't go to ball, and turned back to defender

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - BobK - 01-17-2021

Congrats to Nicole Powell. Her UC Riverside team just beat USC

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - Hulk01 - 01-17-2021

Kiana Williams' three best PAC-12 performances:
23-55 (.419)
14-31 from three (.452)
4 assists, 2 turnovers
61 points.

Her other six conference games:
16-63 (.254)
5-34 from three (.147)
11 assists, 13 turnovers.

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - chimera - 01-17-2021

I no longer try hard to analyze, but I will give it a go.  Something was off all weekend, what with Jones held out for mysterious, possibly disciplinary reasons, and the way the CO game played out. We did not see the urgency, the hustle, that we are accustomed to seeing from some players, and some of the decision making was not up to the typical standard. Rebounding being even is a sign we were outworked. That is not usual.  May be as simple as life on the road has finally got to them. Maybe also a bit of a letdown after some tough wins against top 10-15 level teams. It will not help that cal is not playing the next few games so teams can just prep for us and will be better rested.

I also think we fans may have been overestimating what we have (raises hand- guilty!). The team is excellent and talented but they are not a clear #1 in talent level. I love Kiana, she's bailed the team out several times over her career, but as was posted above she is having a wildly inconsistent season, and she was inconsistent last season as well. The defensive effort is usually there, offense is more like one great game out of 4 with the rest being very poor shooting or few shots taken. She is not a big assist creator, so if her shooting is off, it really strains the offense.  Anna is more a glue player/defensive stopper who can shoot a few threes than a big scorer so when Kiana is struggling, we are not strong at guard on offense, not as a #1 team needs to be. We need more consistent scoring and more assists out of our 1 and 2 spots. When the offense is clicking, not a problem, but when things are a struggle, you need your main ballhandlers to make more good things happen.

Our posts are all young, all sophs and frosh except Alyssa, who doesn't play much, so we get some inconsistent play from them. I foresee continued improvement but I also expect we will see more growing pains against teams with really good posts, especially those with size and physicality. We do not have an Ogwumike (yet) or an Alanna Smith (yet) where we can toss the ball inside and expect 15-17 points a game with 50%+ shooting from our primary big against good opponents. Cameron is on the road to stardom, but not there yet. When Fran is on, she looks like a star, but she still needs to learn to cope better with big, physical posts. When she loses her way, like today, it is hard to pull her back to her best right now. Experience will help.

Lexie and Lacie are both tremendous glue players in my mind - both work crazy hard, both can shoot, and Lexie is a really good driver when the refs don't let her get clobbered. When she is on, Lexie can score in bunches but she thrives in a system that gets her good shots and lanes to drive. We can't just hand her the ball and say go. The one player who can consistently get her own shot and make a high percentage is Hayley. I know, I know, team game, and all players need the schemes to work for them to be successful. It's just that we have really one player who I would say is a star, who can consistently dominate games. Others might have star turns, but we are not loaded like when we had stars outside (Wiggins) and inside (Appel) or a post who was a 20/10 monster game after game like Chiney Ogwumike.

This is my round about way of saying, we have a great team, fun to watch, all that good stuff, but we do not have the talent level out there we had in the 2007 - 2012 or so. We do not have the mix of inside star and outside star a dominant team kinda needs. Sometimes we get great team-wide shooting and it seems like we do, or Kiana has one of her "on" games and we do, but we do not have that consistently. This may be the deepest team with less drop off to the end of the roster in some time. It is not the team with the most star power. I know we crushed a lot of teams and beat UA, UO, and UCLA. I still see a team with limitations that needs to play well within the scheme, not a team that can rely on a star or two to yank them through team-wide bad patches.

Am I making any sense? Maybe not. Back to your regularly scheduled debating...

RE: WBB: Stanford 72 Colorado 77 OT - TheFarm07 - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 09:49 PM)chimera Wrote: I no longer try hard to analyze, but I will give it a go.  Something was off all weekend, what with Jones held out for mysterious, possibly disciplinary reasons, and the way the CO game played out. We did not see the urgency, the hustle, that we are accustomed to seeing from some players, and some of the decision making was not up to the typical standard. Rebounding being even is a sign we were outworked. That is not usual.  May be as simple as life on the road has finally got to them. Maybe also a bit of a letdown after some tough wins against top 10-15 level teams. It will not help that cal is not playing the next few games so teams can just prep for us and will be better rested.

I also think we fans may have been overestimating what we have (raises hand- guilty!). The team is excellent and talented but they are not a clear #1 in talent level. I love Kiana, she's bailed the team out several times over her career, but as was posted above she is having a wildly inconsistent season, and she was inconsistent last season as well. The defensive effort is usually there, offense is more like one great game out of 4 with the rest being very poor shooting or few shots taken. She is not a big assist creator, so if her shooting is off, it really strains the offense.  Anna is more a glue player/defensive stopper who can shoot a few threes than a big scorer so when Kiana is struggling, we are not strong at guard on offense, not as a #1 team needs to be. We need more consistent scoring and more assists out of our 1 and 2 spots. When the offense is clicking, not a problem, but when things are a struggle, you need your main ballhandlers to make more good things happen.

Our posts are all young, all sophs and frosh except Alyssa, who doesn't play much, so we get some inconsistent play from them. I foresee continued improvement but I also expect we will see more growing pains against teams with really good posts, especially those with size and physicality. We do not have an Ogwumike (yet) or an Alanna Smith (yet) where we can toss the ball inside and expect 15-17 points a game with 50%+ shooting from our primary big against good opponents. Cameron is on the road to stardom, but not there yet. When Fran is on, she looks like a star, but she still needs to learn to cope better with big, physical posts. When she loses her way, like today, it is hard to pull her back to her best right now. Experience will help.

Lexie and Lacie are both tremendous glue players in my mind - both work crazy hard, both can shoot, and Lexie is a really good driver when the refs don't let her get clobbered. When she is on, Lexie can score in bunches but she thrives in a system that gets her good shots and lanes to drive. We can't just hand her the ball and say go. The one player who can consistently get her own shot and make a high percentage is Hayley. I know, I know, team game, and all players need the schemes to work for them to be successful. It's just that we have really one player who I would say is a star, who can consistently dominate games. Others might have star turns, but we are not loaded like when we had stars outside (Wiggins) and inside (Appel) or a post who was a 20/10 monster game after game like Chiney Ogwumike.

This is my round about way of saying, we have a great team, fun to watch, all that good stuff, but we do not have the talent level out there we had in the 2007 - 2012 or so. We do not have the mix of inside star and outside star a dominant team kinda needs. Sometimes we get great team-wide shooting and it seems like we do, or Kiana has one of her "on" games and we do, but we do not have that consistently. This may be the deepest team with less drop off to the end of the roster in some time. It is not the team with the most star power. I know we crushed a lot of teams and beat UA, UO, and UCLA. I still see a team with limitations that needs to play well within the scheme, not a team that can rely on a star or two to yank them through team-wide bad patches.

Am I making any sense? Maybe not. Back to your regularly scheduled debating...

I agree with you completely. I believed I might have mentioned this a while ago, but this year's team is the deepest in terms of quality I've seen since I started following the program closely about fifteen years ago. However, the starters are not as talented 1-5 as it was when we made five consecutive final fours from 2008 to 2012.

On an individual level, I also am in agreement on your assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of each player. A friend of mine who is a UCLA fan asked me recently to compare Kiana and Onyenwere, I told him I would put Michaela above Kiana because she has been more consistent, game-in, game-out. Williams has been very streaky in her collegiate career and it seems that her cold streaks often outnumber her hot phases unfortunately. She kinda reminds me of a high-volume, low efficiency player, a la Odyssey Sims or Skylar Diggins where they will get 20 points but it will take them 20 shots to do so and she does not have the strength or height to drive and pick up fouls as easily as they did.

Haley showed today that she can be the offensive force to score points, but her decision making still needs some polishing as her 6 turnovers (largely a result of forcing passes inside that were picked off by a defender) showed.

Cameron's offensive skills are tantalizing but she is struggling with foul trouble on the defensive end and a concentrated effort by an opponent to pick on her defensively can limit her minutes right now.