MBB: It's time for Haase to go - Printable Version
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RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - BobK - 03-15-2021
Ingram would not have signed without an extension. Haase has been at Stanford 5 years. Folks keep calling Haase a great recruiter. That would be a good reason for an extension. I’d bet most anything Haase came with a 4 or 5 year contract
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - winflop - 03-15-2021
(03-15-2021, 03:03 PM)BobK Wrote: Ingram would not have signed without an extension. Haase has been at Stanford 5 years. Folks keep calling Haase a great recruiter. That would be a good reason for an extension. I’d bet most anything Haase came with a 4 or 5 year contract
Haase has been a great recruiter. But that's where it stops for me as far as accolades.
I guess we should hope that the extension was only 2-3 years so that after next season there's only a 1-year buyout. If it's more than that, then I think Muir's financial management must be called into question (again)
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - cardcrimson - 03-15-2021
(03-15-2021, 02:55 PM)winflop Wrote: Someone needs to explain to me why Haase would have a substantial buyout. I assume at some point his contract was extended but I have to wonder what did he do to earn any kind of contract extension?
Head-spinner that once again leaves me questioning Muir's financial management.
That.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - BostonCard - 03-15-2021
Coaches know they have ADs over a barrel due to recruiting. You can't just leave a coach until the last year of their contract, because everyone will negatively recruit players saying that their future coach is about to be fired. Given that prior to this year (and even well into it) pretty much everyone on this board was convinced that Haase had the program headed in the right direction and that he needed a little more time for his recruiting to lead to results, it seems that there is a bit of revisionist history among the people who think Muir should have cut Haase loose at the time of his contract renegotiation.
BC
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - Phogge - 03-15-2021
Is it worth it to keep him if the five star stays one year?
triangle2 - triangle2 - 03-15-2021
(03-15-2021, 08:09 AM)Goose Wrote:(03-14-2021, 10:29 PM)triangle2 Wrote: I have argued before that a “system” coach is likely to be more successful at Stanford in the longer term because of admissions restrictions. Watching both the Dawkins era and the Haase era, I’m even more convinced that my theory is correct. I think it’s fairly hopeless to think about competing against the programs that can basically admit anyone. Even if you get one out of twenty, the other programs are getting 7 out of 10.I think your argument supports the idea that a "system coach" is exactly the wrong approach for Stanford. If the one out of twenty you can actually get doesn't fit your system, what do you do? If you don't get the four bigs and a shooter but rather two bigs, a shooter, a defender and a point you can't play the same system and wouldn't want to do so. You can be a "system" coach at Stanford only if you can always find admissible players that fit your system who you can successfully recruit. I think Stanford needs a coach who can adapt to what players he has and can get. Naturally, being a "good" recruiter can help you attract guys who you think can help your team, but if you put many parameters on those guys there will be multiple years where you come up empty IMHO.
I’m not sure we’re actually in disagreement. What I was getting at, perhaps not in a well articulated fashion, is that it’s easier to build a program at a place like Stanford by using the kinds of players who are more likely to get admitted and to come into the program. But still using a system, rather than trying to do the Dawkins/Haase approach which seems to be a less structured offense where you rely on isolating superior athletes instead of making the system produce better % shots. Montgomery’s system works with the grouping of potential Stanford admits because, I think, the system produces a lot of wins without requiring the super best players. I don’t worry about the possibility that you’d have problems if you don’t get the one out of twenty post player. Mike won games using Derek Bruton, and Reveno, and Vlahov playing on one and a half knees. I think this is the virtue of a true system coach - you get wins because your team executes its system better, and you accept that you lose some games where your team just gets overwhelmed by talent. Take Stanford’s two agonizing losses to UMass in the tournament as primary examples - Stanford ran the system and lost to what we now know was an unfairly packed UMass lineup.
Two other obvious examples of system coaches also come to mind: John Cheney and his #&$^#^ match up zone, and the fabled Pete Carril Princeton offense that we’re getting to watch the women run so successfully. Cheney had almost no A to A+ talent but was a regular presence in the tournament. Neither program had any success getting very far in the tournament, but given where we are at the moment, I bet most folks here would happily sign up for a return to a program that regularly won 22-28 games and lost in the 2nd round most of the time.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - winflop - 03-16-2021
(03-15-2021, 03:42 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Coaches know they have ADs over a barrel due to recruiting. You can't just leave a coach until the last year of their contract, because everyone will negatively recruit players saying that their future coach is about to be fired. Given that prior to this year (and even well into it) pretty much everyone on this board was convinced that Haase had the program headed in the right direction and that he needed a little more time for his recruiting to lead to results, it seems that there is a bit of revisionist history among the people who think Muir should have cut Haase loose at the time of his contract renegotiation.
BC
Didn't mean to imply that Muir should have cut him loose, but hopefully he didn't sign Haase to a lengthy extension. Yes the program looked to be heading in the right direction, but still had not results. I'm hopeful that the extension wasn't beyond 2022-23 or the following season at most. If Muir gave him a 4+ year extension, that would be poor financial management.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - Goose - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 06:53 AM)winflop Wrote:And naturally Haase had no say in accepting whatever Muir deigned to offer him and would be perfectly happy with a two year extension.(03-15-2021, 03:42 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Coaches know they have ADs over a barrel due to recruiting. You can't just leave a coach until the last year of their contract, because everyone will negatively recruit players saying that their future coach is about to be fired. Given that prior to this year (and even well into it) pretty much everyone on this board was convinced that Haase had the program headed in the right direction and that he needed a little more time for his recruiting to lead to results, it seems that there is a bit of revisionist history among the people who think Muir should have cut Haase loose at the time of his contract renegotiation.
BC
Didn't mean to imply that Muir should have cut him loose, but hopefully he didn't sign Haase to a lengthy extension. Yes the program looked to be heading in the right direction, but still had not results. I'm hopeful that the extension wasn't beyond 2022-23 or the following season at most. If Muir gave him a 4+ year extension, that would be poor financial management.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - BobK - 03-16-2021
I’d love to know if we turned down the NIT
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - burger - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 07:45 AM)BobK Wrote: I’d love to know if we turned down the NIT
Per Twitter, WSU did. Their record was worse than ours.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - winflop - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 07:38 AM)Goose Wrote:(03-16-2021, 06:53 AM)winflop Wrote:And naturally Haase had no say in accepting whatever Muir deigned to offer him and would be perfectly happy with a two year extension.(03-15-2021, 03:42 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Coaches know they have ADs over a barrel due to recruiting. You can't just leave a coach until the last year of their contract, because everyone will negatively recruit players saying that their future coach is about to be fired. Given that prior to this year (and even well into it) pretty much everyone on this board was convinced that Haase had the program headed in the right direction and that he needed a little more time for his recruiting to lead to results, it seems that there is a bit of revisionist history among the people who think Muir should have cut Haase loose at the time of his contract renegotiation.
BC
Didn't mean to imply that Muir should have cut him loose, but hopefully he didn't sign Haase to a lengthy extension. Yes the program looked to be heading in the right direction, but still had not results. I'm hopeful that the extension wasn't beyond 2022-23 or the following season at most. If Muir gave him a 4+ year extension, that would be poor financial management.
If Haase wasn't willing to accept less than a 4-year extension then I would have let him walk.
Given the declining revenues from P12N with no sign of recovery, I think it would be fiscally irresponsible to commit that length of time to a coach who after 4 years hadn't delivered results that were materially different from his predecessor who was fired because of those results.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - SamuelMcF - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 08:43 AM)winflop Wrote:(03-16-2021, 07:38 AM)Goose Wrote:(03-16-2021, 06:53 AM)winflop Wrote:And naturally Haase had no say in accepting whatever Muir deigned to offer him and would be perfectly happy with a two year extension.(03-15-2021, 03:42 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Coaches know they have ADs over a barrel due to recruiting. You can't just leave a coach until the last year of their contract, because everyone will negatively recruit players saying that their future coach is about to be fired. Given that prior to this year (and even well into it) pretty much everyone on this board was convinced that Haase had the program headed in the right direction and that he needed a little more time for his recruiting to lead to results, it seems that there is a bit of revisionist history among the people who think Muir should have cut Haase loose at the time of his contract renegotiation.
BC
Didn't mean to imply that Muir should have cut him loose, but hopefully he didn't sign Haase to a lengthy extension. Yes the program looked to be heading in the right direction, but still had not results. I'm hopeful that the extension wasn't beyond 2022-23 or the following season at most. If Muir gave him a 4+ year extension, that would be poor financial management.
If Haase wasn't willing to accept less than a 4-year extension then I would have let him walk.
Given the declining revenues from P12N with no sign of recovery, I think it would be fiscally irresponsible to commit that length of time to a coach who after 4 years hadn't delivered results that were materially different from his predecessor who was fired because of those results.
Buyouts are a thing. Indiana fired Archie Miller and paid him $10M.
Not that that's a GOOD financial idea, but still.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - winflop - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 09:00 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(03-16-2021, 08:43 AM)winflop Wrote:(03-16-2021, 07:38 AM)Goose Wrote:(03-16-2021, 06:53 AM)winflop Wrote:And naturally Haase had no say in accepting whatever Muir deigned to offer him and would be perfectly happy with a two year extension.(03-15-2021, 03:42 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Coaches know they have ADs over a barrel due to recruiting. You can't just leave a coach until the last year of their contract, because everyone will negatively recruit players saying that their future coach is about to be fired. Given that prior to this year (and even well into it) pretty much everyone on this board was convinced that Haase had the program headed in the right direction and that he needed a little more time for his recruiting to lead to results, it seems that there is a bit of revisionist history among the people who think Muir should have cut Haase loose at the time of his contract renegotiation.
BC
Didn't mean to imply that Muir should have cut him loose, but hopefully he didn't sign Haase to a lengthy extension. Yes the program looked to be heading in the right direction, but still had not results. I'm hopeful that the extension wasn't beyond 2022-23 or the following season at most. If Muir gave him a 4+ year extension, that would be poor financial management.
If Haase wasn't willing to accept less than a 4-year extension then I would have let him walk.
Given the declining revenues from P12N with no sign of recovery, I think it would be fiscally irresponsible to commit that length of time to a coach who after 4 years hadn't delivered results that were materially different from his predecessor who was fired because of those results.
Buyouts are a thing. Indiana fired Archie Miller and paid him $10M.
Not that that's a GOOD financial idea, but still.
Haase's buyout is likely half that, or less. If it isn't, then that's on Muir for making a bad deal.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - Farm93 - 03-16-2021
Revisionist history? I am not quite so sure "everyone" was on board with giving Haase more time 24 months ago. I know I wasn't in that camp. Wished Muir let him go prior to that 2019-2020 NCAA Tournament or Bust season.
The 2019-2020 tournament or bust was an odd path because it was giving Stanford the worst parts of a coach on the last year of his contract for recruiting while still having him on a long term contract. That path is on Muir not Haase. UCLA's seed this year makes it clear to me that Stanford was not going to make the 2019-2020 tournament. Therefore Muir should have let Haase go no more than 7 days after the loss in the 2020 Pac-12 Tournament. However, COVID became a thing so the or bust part of the mandate fell apart.
If not for COVID-19, Muir should have let Haase go no more than 7 days after this season's loss in the 2021 Pac-12 Tournament. It seems like most schools in the USA are not firing coaches this year in most sports. I can only imagine that most schools have kept to the general belief that this was such a unique and challenging season that all staff should be retained.
That lack of a vibrant coaching market may be why Haase is safe again. While I believe I have been part of the not quite everybody group over the last 25 months, I actually understand that Haase will be (should be) the coach in 2021-2022. Though I wish Haase would spend the summer working with former basketball coaches known for creating effective offenses without multiple above average playmakers on the court at all times.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - VB Card - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 09:00 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(03-16-2021, 08:43 AM)winflop Wrote:(03-16-2021, 07:38 AM)Goose Wrote:(03-16-2021, 06:53 AM)winflop Wrote:And naturally Haase had no say in accepting whatever Muir deigned to offer him and would be perfectly happy with a two year extension.(03-15-2021, 03:42 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Coaches know they have ADs over a barrel due to recruiting. You can't just leave a coach until the last year of their contract, because everyone will negatively recruit players saying that their future coach is about to be fired. Given that prior to this year (and even well into it) pretty much everyone on this board was convinced that Haase had the program headed in the right direction and that he needed a little more time for his recruiting to lead to results, it seems that there is a bit of revisionist history among the people who think Muir should have cut Haase loose at the time of his contract renegotiation.
BC
Didn't mean to imply that Muir should have cut him loose, but hopefully he didn't sign Haase to a lengthy extension. Yes the program looked to be heading in the right direction, but still had not results. I'm hopeful that the extension wasn't beyond 2022-23 or the following season at most. If Muir gave him a 4+ year extension, that would be poor financial management.
If Haase wasn't willing to accept less than a 4-year extension then I would have let him walk.
Given the declining revenues from P12N with no sign of recovery, I think it would be fiscally irresponsible to commit that length of time to a coach who after 4 years hadn't delivered results that were materially different from his predecessor who was fired because of those results.
Buyouts are a thing. Indiana fired Archie Miller and paid him $10M.
Not that that's a GOOD financial idea, but still.
IU also didn't have to pay a dime. One booster stepped forward to pay the $10M himself and another agreed to pay for the next coach's contract. I don't see any Stanford boosters stepping forward to do that.
RE: MBB: It's time for Haase to go - BostonCard - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 09:17 AM)Farm93 Wrote: Revisionist history? I am not quite so sure "everyone" was on board with giving Haase more time 24 months ago. I know I wasn't in that camp. Wished Muir let him go prior to that 2019-2020 NCAA Tournament or Bust season.
I shouldn't have painted such a broad brush; clearly not "everyone". In addition to you, I know that there are a few people who were scheptical of Haase from the start, including one prominent poster who doesn't think Dawkins should have been fired.
That being said, some of the loudest voices decrying Muir's contract extension with Haase were also some of the biggest Haase boosters as recently as the middle of this season.
BC