Tanner Mckee - Printable Version

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RE: Tanner Mckee - Mick - 07-18-2022

(07-16-2022, 04:09 PM)Phogge Wrote:  MS, correct that neither Dils nor Schonert were No 1 in their junior year. Benjamin and Cordova dialed all season in '76.

Benjamin was given a fifth year and was superb in '77. He was hurt late in the Oregon game and Dies entered and led a game clinching final drive. Guy couldn't play the next week and Dils played well and Stanford  beat UCLA 32-28. If I remember correctly Walsh subbed in Lofton on the games final play and he intercepted a Hail Mary.

Schonert played enough snaps (with Elway breathing down his neck) to qualify as the NCAA passing leader in 1979.

Schonert played 43 years ago.  To me, it seems like yesterday, that was my senior year in high school.  But 43 years prior to Schonert, Tiny Thornhill had the January 1, 1936 Rose Bowl, but went 2-5-2 during the 1936 season.  I looked up the names of the five quarterbacks on the pre-Frankie Albert roster, and I literally had never heard of any of them. 43 years is a loooooong time since we had Plunkett, Dils, Boryla, Cordova, Benjamin, Schonert and Elway within a dozen year span.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - gailtate - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 09:18 AM)msqueri Wrote:  

(07-18-2022, 08:12 AM)gailtate Wrote:  Aside from who's ranked and who ain't, my general observation of Tanner McKee is that his destiny seems similar to Trent Edwards. Talented, NFL-caliber but doomed to futility as a collegian due to the paucity of talent around him (players and coaches). Might look forward to respectable Sundays, however -- IF he isn't massacred this season.

I don't see that comparison at all. Davis Mills is the much more obvious comparison.

Trent Edwards came in to a program with an empty cupboard at offensive line and a new head coach with no experience getting players to the NFL. He had some talent around him (Mark Bradford, Evan Moore, Brett Pierce, Alex Smith, JR Lemon) but not nearly enough to overcome the disastrous OL situation, and even if he had better skill position support that doesn't matter much if you're always on your back or in the hospital.

Tanner McKee has no reason to worry about his physical health or ability to stay vertical like Edwards did. Even with the struggles of our OL last year, we gave up 2.67 sacks per game. This year the OL returns everybody. Compare that to what Edwards faced: 3.0 sacks per game in 2003, 3.73 sacks per game in 2004, 3.82 sacks per game in 2005, and 4.17 sacks per game in 2006. McKee is coddled and supported like none other compared to what Edwards faced. Let me put those sack totals in perspective: in the last 13 years of college football there have been 14 Power Five teams that gave up 3.73 sacks per game or worse. In other words, that level of offensive line futility can be reasonably expected to be the worst in America in a given year. And Trent Edwards faced it three years in a row. There is no hyperbole in saying he is the most battered quarterback in the history of major college football. I don't even know how somebody else could be in the conversation. He played four years and in three of them he was getting hit as much as anybody in the country. Crazy.

So really, this is a keep Trent Edwards' name out of your mouth situation. Nobody should ever be compared to him, and certainly not somebody with one of the most experienced and highly-recruited offensive lines in the nation like what McKee gets to play behind this year. For all we know Edwards could have been Elway/Luck if he hadn't been battered to historic proportions. And even after all that battery, Edwards started 33 NFL games, managing to do more at the highest level than Hogan, Costello, Stenstrom, Schonert, Husak, Fasani, Benjamin, Boryla, Hutchinson, Freitas. Incredible.

And while I'm ranting - those who blamed Buddy Teevens for Stanford football's woes were misguided. Teevens had flaws but it was much more Tyrone Willingham's fault. To golf every day and just fail to recruit OL over a multi-year period is the biggest example of fiddling while Rome burned we've ever seen, much worse than anything Shaw has ever done. Over three years we recruited fewer linemen than you need to field a single practice offensive line!

Anyway, the obvious comparison for McKee is Mills. Highly-touted, talented recruits given a good complement of talent compared to most of their peers in the conference, had some good games but generally unspectacular time in college due to a coaching staff that like clockwork can be relied on to get less with more, moved on to an NFL career that will likely make people wonder why he wasn't a bigger deal nationally in college.

Tanner McKee has no reason to worry about his physical health or ability to stay vertical like Edwards did.

I hereby document the quote above to cite at the proper moment this season. Davis Mills is clearly a talent, as was Edwards. In my my view McKee is a click below both and I pray for his health.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - qwerty49 - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 10:58 AM)Mick Wrote:  

(07-16-2022, 04:09 PM)Phogge Wrote:  MS, correct that neither Dils nor Schonert were No 1 in their junior year. Benjamin and Cordova dialed all season in '76.

Benjamin was given a fifth year and was superb in '77. He was hurt late in the Oregon game and Dies entered and led a game clinching final drive. Guy couldn't play the next week and Dils played well and Stanford  beat UCLA 32-28. If I remember correctly Walsh subbed in Lofton on the games final play and he intercepted a Hail Mary.

Schonert played enough snaps (with Elway breathing down his neck) to qualify as the NCAA passing leader in 1979.

Schonert played 43 years ago.  To me, it seems like yesterday, that was my senior year in high school.  But 43 years prior to Schonert, Tiny Thornhill had the January 1, 1936 Rose Bowl, but went 2-5-2 during the 1936 season.  I looked up the names of the five quarterbacks on the pre-Frankie Albert roster, and I literally had never heard of any of them. 43 years is a loooooong time since we had Plunkett, Dils, Boryla, Cordova, Benjamin, Schonert and Elway within a dozen year span.

Um, and Bunce too.  But if your're listing great Stanford QBs, I would take issue with Cor-divot. He was often painful to watch.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - msqueri - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 11:34 AM)gailtate Wrote:  

(07-18-2022, 09:18 AM)msqueri Wrote:  

(07-18-2022, 08:12 AM)gailtate Wrote:  Aside from who's ranked and who ain't, my general observation of Tanner McKee is that his destiny seems similar to Trent Edwards. Talented, NFL-caliber but doomed to futility as a collegian due to the paucity of talent around him (players and coaches). Might look forward to respectable Sundays, however -- IF he isn't massacred this season.

I don't see that comparison at all. Davis Mills is the much more obvious comparison.

Trent Edwards came in to a program with an empty cupboard at offensive line and a new head coach with no experience getting players to the NFL. He had some talent around him (Mark Bradford, Evan Moore, Brett Pierce, Alex Smith, JR Lemon) but not nearly enough to overcome the disastrous OL situation, and even if he had better skill position support that doesn't matter much if you're always on your back or in the hospital.

Tanner McKee has no reason to worry about his physical health or ability to stay vertical like Edwards did. Even with the struggles of our OL last year, we gave up 2.67 sacks per game. This year the OL returns everybody. Compare that to what Edwards faced: 3.0 sacks per game in 2003, 3.73 sacks per game in 2004, 3.82 sacks per game in 2005, and 4.17 sacks per game in 2006. McKee is coddled and supported like none other compared to what Edwards faced. Let me put those sack totals in perspective: in the last 13 years of college football there have been 14 Power Five teams that gave up 3.73 sacks per game or worse. In other words, that level of offensive line futility can be reasonably expected to be the worst in America in a given year. And Trent Edwards faced it three years in a row. There is no hyperbole in saying he is the most battered quarterback in the history of major college football. I don't even know how somebody else could be in the conversation. He played four years and in three of them he was getting hit as much as anybody in the country. Crazy.

So really, this is a keep Trent Edwards' name out of your mouth situation. Nobody should ever be compared to him, and certainly not somebody with one of the most experienced and highly-recruited offensive lines in the nation like what McKee gets to play behind this year. For all we know Edwards could have been Elway/Luck if he hadn't been battered to historic proportions. And even after all that battery, Edwards started 33 NFL games, managing to do more at the highest level than Hogan, Costello, Stenstrom, Schonert, Husak, Fasani, Benjamin, Boryla, Hutchinson, Freitas. Incredible.

And while I'm ranting - those who blamed Buddy Teevens for Stanford football's woes were misguided. Teevens had flaws but it was much more Tyrone Willingham's fault. To golf every day and just fail to recruit OL over a multi-year period is the biggest example of fiddling while Rome burned we've ever seen, much worse than anything Shaw has ever done. Over three years we recruited fewer linemen than you need to field a single practice offensive line!

Anyway, the obvious comparison for McKee is Mills. Highly-touted, talented recruits given a good complement of talent compared to most of their peers in the conference, had some good games but generally unspectacular time in college due to a coaching staff that like clockwork can be relied on to get less with more, moved on to an NFL career that will likely make people wonder why he wasn't a bigger deal nationally in college.

Tanner McKee has no reason to worry about his physical health or ability to stay vertical like Edwards did.

I hereby document the quote above to cite at the proper moment this season. Davis Mills is clearly a talent, as was Edwards. In my my view McKee is a click below both and I pray for his health.

"Like Edwards did" was doing a fair bit of work in my statement but fair enough. I don't think McKee has much wear on his tires at all and faces a situation in 2022 in which he should consider himself pretty lucky supporting cast-wise. His will be the first season by a Stanford QB1 with a majority of the line being fourth year players or older since 2018. I don't think it's a coincidence that the 2018 offense is the only one in that span with more than 6 yards per play. Shawfense drives on old men in the trenches. Without them, the deck is stacked against us. With them, QBs can stay healthy and do damage. Shaw has had three and only three (i.e., each did it one time with Shaw as head coach) all-conference QBs:

2011 Andrew Luck - DeCastro, Martin, and Schwartzstein in their fourth year

2015 Kevin Hogan - Murphy, Garnett, Shuler, and Caspers in their fourth year

2018 KJ Costello - Burkett, Hall, and Fanaika in their fourth year

You can't usually find something so mechanical and immune to the vagaries of both Xs and Os and Jessies and Joes as this. In Shaw's experience, so much boils down to the bulk of the offensive line being in their fourth year. It's true even if the individual guys aren't that good. He's had lines with more NFL guys than 2018 that didn't do as well. Such is the power of having a critical mass of the line be grown men. You'd rather have fourth year Burkett/Hall/Fanaika or Rouse/Bragg/Nugent/Miller/Hornibrook than a line with third year Peat/Murphy/Garnett. Crazy but that's our experience and in the last several years I've closely tracked other teams the experience across the conference as well - it's really all about age and experience at OL.

That's not to guarantee McKee won't be hurt. Anybody can get hurt. But he will not be vulnerable in 2022.

As for Edwards vs. Mills vs. McKee talent-wise, you may be right. I think very, very highly of Edwards and Mills' talent and, on paper, they'd probably rank with John Elway and Randy Fasani as the most coveted Stanford recruits of all-time. McKee didn't have that reputation, showed some warts (particularly pocket presence) last year, and is still pretty unproven. At this point I think everything - and I mean everything - from first round to undrafted is on the table for McKee in 2023.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - BostonCard - 07-18-2022

It’s hard to find all the results going that far back, but best on what I found, in 2005, Stanford QB’s (including Edwards) were sacked 42 times and 337 pass attempts (so total drop backs were 379), so Stanford QB’s (mostly, but not exclusively Edwards) were sacked in 11% of dropbacks (roughly one in nine dropbacks).

Last year, our QB’s were sacked 32 times in 404 pass attempts plus times sacked), a rate of 7.9%, or roughly once in 12-13 dropbacks.

While that’s still really bad, it’s not Edwards level bad.  Given that all OL are coming back, it is reasonable to expect some improvement, so I don’t think it is a given that McKee’s date will be as bad as Edwards.

BC

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RE: Tanner Mckee - Goose - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 01:31 PM)msqueri Wrote:  As for Edwards vs. Mills vs. McKee talent-wise, you may be right. I think very, very highly of Edwards and Mills' talent and, on paper, they'd probably rank with John Elway and Randy Fasani as the most coveted Stanford recruits of all-time.

I think you would need to add Luck in there and no way were Mills and/or Fasani as "coveted" a recruit as Elway. Elway's talents were simply other-worldly and virtually everybody saw that. Mills doesn't have Elway's arm, not even close. Granted, the game has changed a lot and there is a lot more "parsing" of the numbers, but Elway was a prospect like no other.

Quote:McKee didn't have that reputation, showed some warts (particularly pocket presence) last year, and is still pretty unproven. At this point I think everything - and I mean everything - from first round to undrafted is on the table for McKee in 2023.

I agree. However, I would also say that Mills was still pretty unproven (more experience than McKee, but still not a lot) when he elected not to return. Worked out for him.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - SamuelMcF - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 02:59 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  It’s hard to find all the results going that far back, but best on what I found, in 2005, Stanford QB’s (including Edwards) were sacked 42 times and 337 pass attempts (so total drop backs were 379), so Stanford QB’s (mostly, but not exclusively Edwards) were sacked in 11% of dropbacks (roughly one in nine dropbacks).

Last year, our QB’s were sacked 32 times in 404 pass attempts plus times sacked), a rate of 7.9%, or roughly once in 12-13 dropbacks.

While that’s still really bad, it’s not Edwards level bad.  Given that all OL are coming back, it is reasonable to expect some improvement, so I don’t think it is a given that McKee’s date will be as bad as Edwards.

BC

McKee was sacked 25 times in 358 dropbacks last season, a rate of just under 7% or once every 14.3 dropbacks. McKee's sack rate by itself would rank #47 in the FBS last year. Not only was it not as bad as Edwards, it wasn't bad period.

Jack West accounted for the other 7 of those 32 sacks, in just 40 dropbacks over 2 games. Truly, mind-numbingly awful.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - msqueri - 07-18-2022

No Goose, Luck was not reputed to be anywhere near the prospect Edwards and Mills were. Luck was viewed as the level of McKee, Costello, and Chryst. 

Mills was the #1 QB recruit in the country. I’ll never be able to convince old timers that anybody was in Elway’s class and that’s fine but it’s hard to be all that much more highly regarded than Mills was.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - Goose - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 05:18 PM)msqueri Wrote:  Mills was the #1 QB recruit in the country. I’ll never be able to convince old timers that anybody was in Elway’s class and that’s fine but it’s hard to be all that much more highly regarded than Mills was.

I was around for both players recruitment. I can assure you that beyond any doubt Elway was more highly "regarded" than Mills ever imagined being. Certainly the situation was much different, as when Elway was recruited there was not the plethora of recruiting services and the like. No way to know how he would have fared in the present climate. However, Elway actually made it into the mainstream media, not just the "specialty" rags. That is the only high school player I recall from that "era" ever doing so. While he wasn't a household name, the "general public" did vaguely know who he was. It is certainly fair to question this public acclaim being a "valid" evaluation of a high school player, but Elway certainly had it. This is even in an era where there was no ESPN or the like to "hype" anybody. The fact Elway had a monster arm was certainly part of it. In today's game, that may not matter as much, but it for sure did then.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - BobK - 07-18-2022

I certainly remember the PR on Elway in HS. Baseball and Fotball

Also on Lofton although that may have been more track than football

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RE: Tanner Mckee - 82lsju - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 06:04 PM)BobK Wrote:  I certainly remember the PR on Elway in HS.    Baseball and Football

Also on Lofton although that may have been more track than football

20 most hyped college football recruits of all-time (from 2016), a couple of the "more hyped" were not all that successful....

Quote:[b]7. John Elway[/b]

To many scouts, John Elway was like no other high school quarterback they’d ever witnessed to that point. His arm was something of a legend, and it led him to be considered as not only a great football prospect but someone who could’ve eventually played in Major League Baseball.

But despite the fact he could throw a baseball from home plate over his college’s outfield fence, Elway would eventually set his sights on football alone in the pros.

Elway had one of the most illustrious four-year stretches ever in high school and was chosen to the Parade All-American team his senior year despite missing five games during the season. Five. That’s how good everyone knew he was.

It wasn’t just the arm, a “gift from God” as Elway’s coach put it, but also his crafty elusiveness and a reasonable amount of speed. He ended up with over 60 scholarship offers to contemplate, and that was just in one of his sports. He’d also been drafted by the Kansas City Royals that year, which is interesting to think about, seeing as Dan Marino was also selected by them. Imagine George Brett and two of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history playing on the same team.

But Elway chose Stanford over what we can assume were many programs with much better football programs. After all, Elway would never make a bowl game at Stanford, but would have an incredible career there with over 9,000 passing yards and 77 touchdowns. He then became the greatest player in Denver Bronco history.

https://saturdayblitz.com/2016/01/29/20-hyped-college-football-recruits-time/15/

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RE: Tanner Mckee - PVTree - 07-18-2022

Continuing on the tangent away from McKee, the Elway story/legend makes me wonder who is the most-hyped athlete ever coming into Stanford?

Elway? Tiger? McEnroe? All greats in their respective sports.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - PalmTree - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 09:27 PM)PVTree Wrote:  Continuing on the tangent away from McKee, the Elway story/legend makes me wonder who is the most-hyped athlete every coming into Stanford?

Elway? Tiger? McEnroe? All greats in their respective sports.

Janet Evans, Katie Ledecky up there IMHO

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RE: Tanner Mckee - Jamesy - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 09:44 PM)PalmTree Wrote:  

(07-18-2022, 09:27 PM)PVTree Wrote:  Continuing on the tangent away from McKee, the Elway story/legend makes me wonder who is the most-hyped athlete every coming into Stanford?

Elway? Tiger? McEnroe? All greats in their respective sports.

Janet Evans, Katie Ledecky up there IMHO

Tony Azevedo

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RE: Tanner Mckee - PVTree - 07-18-2022

Could Debí Thomas and Michelle Wie be included in the club? Catarina Macario?

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RE: Tanner Mckee - BostonCard - 07-18-2022

(07-18-2022, 03:51 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  

(07-18-2022, 02:59 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  It’s hard to find all the results going that far back, but best on what I found, in 2005, Stanford QB’s (including Edwards) were sacked 42 times and 337 pass attempts (so total drop backs were 379), so Stanford QB’s (mostly, but not exclusively Edwards) were sacked in 11% of dropbacks (roughly one in nine dropbacks).

Last year, our QB’s were sacked 32 times in 404 pass attempts plus times sacked), a rate of 7.9%, or roughly once in 12-13 dropbacks.

While that’s still really bad, it’s not Edwards level bad.  Given that all OL are coming back, it is reasonable to expect some improvement, so I don’t think it is a given that McKee’s date will be as bad as Edwards.

BC

McKee was sacked 25 times in 358 dropbacks last season, a rate of just under 7% or once every 14.3 dropbacks. McKee's sack rate by itself would rank #47 in the FBS last year. Not only was it not as bad as Edwards, it wasn't bad period.

Jack West accounted for the other 7 of those 32 sacks, in just 40 dropbacks over 2 games. Truly, mind-numbingly awful.

Thanks; I didn’t have access to the individual sacked numbers, and assumed (wrongly, it turns out) that West didn’t skew the numbers too badly.  Boy was I wrong.

By the way, not all of the sacks/dropbacks in 2005 were Edwards; I think he was injured and Ostrander(?) also played. However, I chose 2005 because that was the year Edwards had the most passing attempts in his career.

BC

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RE: Tanner Mckee - Phogge - 07-19-2022

John Winesberry was one of the most hyped players ever. Was on his way to a great career when he suffered a devastating knee injury.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - lex24 - 07-19-2022

(07-19-2022, 07:03 AM)Phogge Wrote:  John Winesberry was one of the most hyped players ever. Was on his way to a great career when he suffered a devastating knee injury.

From Tulsa is my memory serves. Should have kept him at WR.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - Maple Leaf - 07-19-2022

(07-19-2022, 07:21 AM)lex24 Wrote:  

(07-19-2022, 07:03 AM)Phogge Wrote:  John Winesberry was one of the most hyped players ever. Was on his way to a great career when he suffered a devastating knee injury.

From Tulsa is my memory serves. Should have kept him at WR.

He wanted to play running back, the coaching staff wanted to keep him at wr, but they honored his request, just like they honored Jim Plunkett's to stay at qb and not move to DE.

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RE: Tanner Mckee - 82lsju - 07-19-2022

he is showing up on some pre-season award lists

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