Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Printable Version
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RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Branner77 - 08-07-2023
Meanwhile, tune in starting this Friday the 11th, for "Pac-12: The Final Season."
W soccer vs. UOP, Cagan Stadium at 6 p.m.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Softball Fan - 08-07-2023
I agree travel is a downside to joining the ACC. However; Stanford is on the quarter system. The conference season for most if not all sports is one quarter or a portion of a quarter. Athletes can take a light credit load that quarter and a heavier one the other two quarters. For that matter some athletes could attend classes in the summer session if it fits their schedule. In the age of the Internet some classes can be seen remotely or they are recorded by the professor and can be watched at a student's convenience. I think athletes can figure out how to choose the right classes in the right quarter and get a high quality education.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - chrisk - 08-07-2023
(08-07-2023, 09:19 PM)paloalto Wrote: I agree travel is a downside to joining the ACC. However; Stanford is on the quarter system. The conference season for most if not all sports is one quarter or a portion of a quarter. Athletes can take a light credit load that quarter and a heavier one the other two quarters. For that matter some athletes could attend classes in the summer session if it fits their schedule. In the age of the Internet some classes can be seen remotely or they are recorded by the professor and can be watched at a student's convenience. I think athletes can figure out how to choose the right classes in the right quarter and get a high quality education.
Muir and Taylor are not making this decision. Many of the comments here seem to discount the fact that the Stanford Board of Trustees will make this decision.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Softball Fan - 08-07-2023
(08-07-2023, 09:52 PM)chrisk Wrote:(08-07-2023, 09:19 PM)paloalto Wrote: I agree travel is a downside to joining the ACC. However; Stanford is on the quarter system. The conference season for most if not all sports is one quarter or a portion of a quarter. Athletes can take a light credit load that quarter and a heavier one the other two quarters. For that matter some athletes could attend classes in the summer session if it fits their schedule. In the age of the Internet some classes can be seen remotely or they are recorded by the professor and can be watched at a student's convenience. I think athletes can figure out how to choose the right classes in the right quarter and get a high quality education.
Muir and Taylor are not making this decision. Many of the comments here seem to discount the fact that the Stanford Board of Trustees will make this decision.
Why would the Board of Trustees not take into consideration how travel impacts the student athlete along with financial matters and other factors?
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - chrisk - 08-07-2023
(08-07-2023, 10:15 PM)paloalto Wrote:(08-07-2023, 09:52 PM)chrisk Wrote:(08-07-2023, 09:19 PM)paloalto Wrote: I agree travel is a downside to joining the ACC. However; Stanford is on the quarter system. The conference season for most if not all sports is one quarter or a portion of a quarter. Athletes can take a light credit load that quarter and a heavier one the other two quarters. For that matter some athletes could attend classes in the summer session if it fits their schedule. In the age of the Internet some classes can be seen remotely or they are recorded by the professor and can be watched at a student's convenience. I think athletes can figure out how to choose the right classes in the right quarter and get a high quality education.
Muir and Taylor are not making this decision. Many of the comments here seem to discount the fact that the Stanford Board of Trustees will make this decision.
Why would the Board of Trustees not take into consideration how travel impacts the student athlete along with financial matters and other factors?
The UC Regents are having a closed meeting at 7am Tuesday on Pac-12 Conference membership. We are more likely to get reports / leaks from UC before we hear from Stanford.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - fullmetal - 08-08-2023
As bad as Stanford's situation looks, kal is in it even worse given their stadium debt and athletic dept budget. Whoo.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Mick - 08-08-2023
And I don't think either Stanford or Cal (or OSU or WSU) can afford to walk away from the contractual 2024 NCAA/network payments.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - dabigv13 - 08-08-2023
I'd like to read more on the supposed 480 million coming due. How certain are we that the traitors aren't going to get some or most of that? The traitor schools will do all they can to get at that money.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - chrisk - 08-08-2023
Taylor is expected to talk with the media after practice today. Wilcox made his comments yesterday. "There's some anger."
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/cal-football-coach-justin-wilcox-speaks-pac-12-s-18282841.php
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - 2006alum - 08-08-2023
(08-08-2023, 08:27 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: I'd like to read more on the supposed 480 million coming due. How certain are we that the traitors aren't going to get some or most of that? The traitor schools will do all they can to get at that money.
My understanding is that it's a decent share but not all. Part of the issue is that NCAA payouts trail a number of years behind the years they are accrued, so, for example, UCLA's success last NCAA tournament won't be fully realized until after UCLA has departed. Similarly, media rights payments often trail the academic year they are accrued and for the same reason, revenue generated during 2023-24 won't "pay out" until the Betraying 8 have left and are no longer entitled to payouts. So my guess is like 2/3 of it will be left as spoils for the remaining four. (and I think I misspoke earlier, and the amount is $420m).
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Softball Fan - 08-08-2023
(08-08-2023, 10:33 AM)2006alum Wrote:(08-08-2023, 08:27 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: I'd like to read more on the supposed 480 million coming due. How certain are we that the traitors aren't going to get some or most of that? The traitor schools will do all they can to get at that money.
My understanding is that it's a decent share but not all. Part of the issue is that NCAA payouts trail a number of years behind the years they are accrued, so, for example, UCLA's success last NCAA tournament won't be fully realized until after UCLA has departed. Similarly, media rights payments often trail the academic year they are accrued and for the same reason, revenue generated during 2023-24 won't "pay out" until the Betraying 8 have left and are no longer entitled to payouts. So my guess is like 2/3 of it will be left as spoils for the remaining four. (and I think I misspoke earlier, and the amount is $420m).
I admit I don't understand anything about these payments other than what you just posted. So I'm guessing these payments would be made almost in full if not entirely in full by sometime in 2025. I'm missing something here because that means the four remaining teams might each receive about $100million within a couple years. Or if two teams were added to the conference they each might get about $70million. If that were true I would accept mediocre competition for a few years to get the money.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - chrisk - 08-08-2023
I don't think it counts for all or even most of $420M, but the NCAA pays out units from each years March Madness spread over the following six years. These amounts are designated to conferences. Each conference accrues a unit for each game its teams play in prior to the Final
https://www.axios.com/2023/03/29/ncaa-basketball-tournament-conference-payouts
The units are paid out over the following 6 years, so in effect, the payment in any year is an average of the performance over the prior 6 years. Conferences are urged but not required to split the money equally among its members.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - 82lsju - 08-08-2023
I wonder if this is true and if it is what was the offer a year ago?
Quote:"ESPN had offered a significant package to the conference more than a year ago -- one that the conference’s university presidents rejected. ESPN ended up cutting a deal with the Big 12, and while it remained involved with the Pac-12, it only put in a small bid for Pac-12 rights within the past few weeks."
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/SB-Blogs/Newsletter-Media/2023/08/07.aspx
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - StanfordMatt - 08-08-2023
The flip side to keeping the conference on life support to cash NCAA checks is that you still owe Comcast. The Comcast debt probably gets washed away if the PAC is dissolved.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - ADPinWDC - 08-08-2023
Larry Scott in 2018 -- the Hubris just DRIPS OFF THE SCREEN
"Come 2024 we will have control of all our media rights and be able to adapt to the new landscape the way others can't.!"
[Merchant of Death]
https://twitter.com/i/status/1687304658211987456
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - Softball Fan - 08-08-2023
(08-08-2023, 10:33 AM)2006alum Wrote:(08-08-2023, 08:27 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: I'd like to read more on the supposed 480 million coming due. How certain are we that the traitors aren't going to get some or most of that? The traitor schools will do all they can to get at that money.
My understanding is that it's a decent share but not all. Part of the issue is that NCAA payouts trail a number of years behind the years they are accrued, so, for example, UCLA's success last NCAA tournament won't be fully realized until after UCLA has departed. Similarly, media rights payments often trail the academic year they are accrued and for the same reason, revenue generated during 2023-24 won't "pay out" until the Betraying 8 have left and are no longer entitled to payouts. So my guess is like 2/3 of it will be left as spoils for the remaining four. (and I think I misspoke earlier, and the amount is $420m).
I'm struggling with the best course of action for Stanford. I keep coming back to your comment. To make a decision I would have to know exactly how much money Stanford would get and exactly when we would get it, how much of it is an iron-clad guarantee, how much is open to interpretation, and how much is subject to litigation.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-acc-considering-smu-in-addition-to-cal-and-stanford-in-expansion-talks-205526422.html
Quote:Another option being explored is a merger of sorts with the Pac-12’s four remaining programs in an effort to retain the Pac-12 brand and potentially keep some other perks, such as the Pac-12’s autonomous legislative authority and a higher distribution from the College Football Playoff.
Those conversations are ongoing, and it’s unclear if a reformed Pac-12 would retain either A5 status or the higher CFP distribution. In light of the latest realignment situation, the CFP is expected to examine changes to the revenue distribution model and the format, as Yahoo Sports reported Monday.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - 2006alum - 08-08-2023
(08-08-2023, 07:08 PM)paloalto Wrote:(08-08-2023, 10:33 AM)2006alum Wrote:(08-08-2023, 08:27 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: I'd like to read more on the supposed 480 million coming due. How certain are we that the traitors aren't going to get some or most of that? The traitor schools will do all they can to get at that money.
My understanding is that it's a decent share but not all. Part of the issue is that NCAA payouts trail a number of years behind the years they are accrued, so, for example, UCLA's success last NCAA tournament won't be fully realized until after UCLA has departed. Similarly, media rights payments often trail the academic year they are accrued and for the same reason, revenue generated during 2023-24 won't "pay out" until the Betraying 8 have left and are no longer entitled to payouts. So my guess is like 2/3 of it will be left as spoils for the remaining four. (and I think I misspoke earlier, and the amount is $420m).
I'm struggling with the best course of action for Stanford. I keep coming back to your comment. To make a decision I would have to know exactly how much money Stanford would get and exactly when we would get it, how much of it is an iron-clad guarantee, how much is open to interpretation, and how much is subject to litigation.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-acc-considering-smu-in-addition-to-cal-and-stanford-in-expansion-talks-205526422.html
Another option being explored is a merger of sorts with the Pac-12’s four remaining programs in an effort to retain the Pac-12 brand and potentially keep some other perks, such as the Pac-12’s autonomous legislative authority and a higher distribution from the College Football Playoff.
Those conversations are ongoing, and it’s unclear if a reformed Pac-12 would retain either A5 status or the higher CFP distribution. In light of the latest realignment situation, the CFP is expected to examine changes to the revenue distribution model and the format, as Yahoo Sports reported Monday.
My best understanding (and this is coming mostly from Canzano's tidbit about the $420m and my own knowledge of how the conference pays out revenues to members) is that the $420m does not include any guaranteed CFP money beyond this coming season, which is already baked in by the structural rules for the 2023-24 college football season. However, I do think that money won't pay out until the Betraying 8 leave, which means that whichever member(s) of the Pac-12 that appear in the CFP will generate additional revenue for the Pac-4 to distribute. For any year after this season, however, all bets are off.
FWIW, assuming it's true that the B1G is not interested in Stanford right now, I suspect Stanford's relative silence here is that the BOT is calculating how many years out before Stanford will be significantly worse off with a resuscitated Pac-7+ vs. the ACC (or Big 12). I think disbanding and/or leaving the Pac-4 now will only pay off if Stanford wants to make the long bet, and I suspect the BOT is thinking things are moving so quickly, they should at least strongly consider taking the guaranteed short-term windfall and see how things shake out. The Big Ten might wake up in two years and realize for scheduling and balance reasons, it needs a bigger Western Division and just absorb the remaining Pac-4 (or at least Stanford and Cal).
And chrisk is right that impact on student-athletes will be central, too. Stanford has the luxury of deep pockets and enough pull that it's not inconceivable we could schedule OOC the way UConn MBB/WBB did during its AAC years, while not remaining tethered to a predominantly Eastern Time Zone conference schedule.
Not sure why, but for some reason my gut says the Pac-4 becomes the Pac-7+ in the short term and they wait to see how things settle out over the next few years, simply because I don't see any better options for Stanford (let alone Cal) that are better options in the time horizon of the next 3-5 years. (And yes, that includes from a revenue perspective.)
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - dabigv13 - 08-08-2023
Quote:Not sure why, but for some reason my gut says the Pac-4 becomes the Pac-7+ in the short term and they wait to see how things settle out over the next few years, simply because I don't see any better options for Stanford (let alone Cal) that are better options in the time horizon of the next 3-5 years. (And yes, that includes from a revenue perspective.)
I think this is probably right. But if we grow to 7, the joining schools will want long terms on any contracts with big fees to break. So would OSU and WSU, and perhaps cal. Trying to rebuild the Pac might put us in as big of handcuffs as joining the ACC.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - 2006alum - 08-08-2023
(08-08-2023, 08:55 PM)dabigv13 Wrote:Quote:Not sure why, but for some reason my gut says the Pac-4 becomes the Pac-7+ in the short term and they wait to see how things settle out over the next few years, simply because I don't see any better options for Stanford (let alone Cal) that are better options in the time horizon of the next 3-5 years. (And yes, that includes from a revenue perspective.)
I think this is probably right. But if we grow to 7, the joining schools will want long terms on any contracts with big fees to break. So would OSU and WSU, and perhaps cal. Trying to rebuild the Pac might put us in as big of handcuffs as joining the ACC.
I think that's right. I'm not sure how much leverage they would have, though, since the Pac-9 deal with Apple was reportedly only locking the members in for 2-3 seasons, so I don't think any Pac-7 version would include a GOR lasting more than a few seasons.
RE: Reflection on the demise of the Pac-12 - dabigv13 - 08-08-2023
Sure but I don't think the MWC exit fee for instance is directly tied to their media rights deal. If OSU, WSU, cal all want to implement something like that, it would certainly be reasonable after having been burned so bad already.